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We own and show CKCS, and we had a nightmare naming them. We have Blen's and a Tri Colour Thier names are Koda (his show name is Kakoda, so its just short for that) Blair (he looked like a teddy bear when he was a pup, so blair bear!) Hailey, because she's a little tank, so we call her Hailey bailey. Hope you find the right name, and you love your little pup as much as we love ours! I voted for rum, especially if its a ruby!!! but i also like pepper

has anybody used them, and if so what are they like?

cavalier!!!

Congratulations!!!

Toys: CKCS Tibetan Spaniel Chinese Crested Papillion Terriers: Cairn Terrier Soft Coated Wheaten Scottish Terrier Gundogs: Nova Scotia Duck Tolling Retriever Cocker Spaniel Irish Setter Hounds: Beagle Afghan Finish Spitz Working Dogs: Bearded Collies Collie Rough Aussie Shepherd Puli (once again more than 3 sorry!!!!) Utility: Alaskan Malumute Newfoundland Tibetan Mastiff Non-Sporting Lhasa Apso Shih Tzu Tibetan Terrier

Just to answer the questions, She was sold as 'show potential' - not show quality as i mistakenly said, but the breeder was fully aware of our plans for her. Obviously being involved in showing, there are so many things that can go wrong with an animal, i understand that absolutely no guarantees are available that a pup will turn into a dog worthy of breeding and showing, and that so so much can go wrong. BUT, she has a genetic fault that is autosomal, which means that even though the exact mode of inheritance is not known, the breeder has to have had a dog in thier lines recently that is throwing the defect. She is not a new breeder, has been breeding for at least ten years, and has all the dogs that she has bred from on her website so she clearly knows the dogs that she is breeding. We did ask her about genetic testing and she assured us that she has no such problems in her lines, and provided us with some evidence of some of the tests. However, there is no test in Australia for patellas, and although it is a common problem in my breed, there is no register with the AKNC, nor is there mandatory reporting/testing for patella luxation. I also know that the luxation can be caused by a trauma, but the vet that finally diagnosed the problem informs us that as it is in both knees it is highly unlikely, and it is definately a hereditary fault. Research has confirmed this. We also had her seen by a vet shortly after arriving at our house - 13 weeks old - and there was no fault found. At 8 months we took her to the vet again as we were concerned about her movement in the ring - crabbing, and at times she looked as though she was running down hill. Growing Pains. Another vet told us it was the way we held the lead. The only test for patellas is the ability of the vet to be able to manipulate the joint out of the socket, and on all occasions the vets said the joint was weak, but definately not luxating and they believed as she matured she would grow out of it. We withdrew her from the ring, and paitently waited for her to grow so she would move properly. Things only got worse, she began hopping, and now we are at the point I described above. We do not have a 'contract' with the breeder, just simply an emailed agreement between us, and of course her word. Stupid me, I will never buy a puppy ever again without a locked in, legal, solid contract. We contacted the breeder when we noticed the poor movement in the ring and we were told that all her older dogs did that when they were young, and they all grew out of it. (compounding the diagnosises the vets had given us) So despite our concerns and our suspicions I suppose in a way it is our fault for not acting on our instinct that something is not right we crossed our fingers/held our breath/ loved the little thing to bits and hoped that it would all be ok. That may be naive (despite the fact that my family have been involved in breeding/showing for over 30 years) but we trusted the breeder to tell us the truth, and the system. Im not going to take any action over this towards the breeder, nor am I going to cause trouble for her and publicize who she is, but I am disappointed that she has acted the way she has, and was just wondering if you were in the position she is in as a breeder what you would do. Our plans for the dog in its immediate future is to have her desexed, have her $3000 surgery to fix the joints, which may or may not be successful, and may need further surgery in the future, and then who knows. We think we should try and find her a pet home, as we are not in a position to collect dogs (although I really wish I was!!!!) but then I don't know if the emotional attachment that i feel can be broken. She is a beautifully temperamented girl, who loves us dearly!!!!! I suppose with the lottery that puppies can be Im not unhappy that she has turned out not to be a show quality dog, that happens, but rather the reaction of the breeder. After saying she will keep an eye out for it, we have heard zip, zippo, zero! I mean NOTHING.

I do understand where you are coming from as we had a very similar experience earlier this year. We didn't have a formal contract just an email confirming her sale as a show bitch with conditions etc. After a couple of phone calls and emails we haven't heard back from the breeder. I have since heard we aren't the only ones to have experienced problems. I have decided to forget about it, desex her and see if I can find her a good pet home as with council regulations as they are if I want to continue showing I can't afford to keep collecting dogs. One thing it has taught me is not to trust anyone - regardless and I think this is a very sad state of affairs for the dog world. Very similar situation we are in, we are about to have her surgery and have her desexed, but we are heartbroken that someone could do this and not even reply to our second email back after us telling her. We are considering rehoming her as we too are in a position that we can't keep collecting dogs either. Which is really hard because she has such a beautiful temperament, and her conformation except for her knees is exceptional. She is such a beautiful animal, and im a bit peeved to be put into this situation in the first place.

Mandimoore, just a heads up for next time, and for others who may not know. A good vet can pick wonky patellas at the age of 6 weeks. If the breeder isn't checking for this, then as a buyer you can be asking for the patellas to be checked - before you hand over the final payment. Offer to pay for the vet check if the breeder is unwilling. If they don't accept that offer, find another breeder. Souff We had her checked a couple of times when she was younger for patellas, as we noticed she seemed to be crabbing alot and running downhill. However the three vets that we took her to as a pup assured us it was growing pains (we had our suspicions, and were reassured by the breeder at that time that her older dogs all did that as little ones and grew fine structually as they developed. There is no definate test for patellas, except for a vet being able to manipulate the joint and on all three occassions the joint was weak, however, did not displace from the groove. And unfortunately there is no genetic check for patellas that picks up carriers of the fault. So it is really hard. Basically you have to take the breeders word for it in situations like this, which has taught me not to trust ANYONE when it comes to dogs. In reality it is really hard to trace back genetic faults in lines of breeds that do not have the mandatory testing for the parents (such as HD with the scoring)

She has a luxating patella, and yes we did check that the parents had no known genetic fault, however, we only have the breeders word on this, as there is no testing for carriers of the fault.

Sorry for using the wrong terminolgy, of course it was 'show potential'!!!

i knew advantix was posionous for cats and that's why im really careful!!!!!! just wasn't sure about sentinel!

Just wondering, as I can not find a website with the consumer information on it. If someone could point me in the direction of one that would be fantastic! Also has anyone used Sentinel? Was it effective? how did you find it? I currently use Frontline Original and Milbemax in combination with a heartworm preventative. But am thinking of changing as after two weeks the puppies are scratching and itchy, which is working out quite expensive. Frontline Plus I found was worse!!!! Any info anyone has would be appreciated!!! And if you don't think Sentinel is a good product what do you use for your flea and worm treatments? How much a month do you spend on them?

We bought a dog that is now just over one for breeding/showing purposes. It was made clear to the breeder that we were looking for a bitch of show quality to add to our breeding programme and were looking for an exceptional conformation. It has now turned out that the dog has a known genetic fault with her patellas, and has had to been not only pulled from the show ring, but of course from our breeding programme. We are a small breeder, and it has put our plans back years, and is a huge disappointment. Im just wondering to all the breeders out there, what would you do in this situation. We have contacted the bitch's breeder and her only response was that she will watch her litter sister that she has kept for any signs of the problem. We have not heard from her since. If you were a puppy purchaser what would you expect the norm would be? We're just a little taken aback by the breeders response, but are not sure if it is a normal response or not. We have also noticed the same breeder recently had puppies for sale from a repeat mating of the dogs that produced our dog, and they were mated after she was contacted. She also has plans to use the same parents in her future breeding as well. So What would you expect as a purchaser in this situation and as a breeder what would you do?

i thought that it always at to be signed at the date of the service. After all it does require you to sign and date the form. (At least it does in NSW) I would gather then that it legally would have to be on the date of the service. That's whats being verified, after all, the service. It seems as though he is trying to hold the bitch's owner in sort of a hostage situation. After all without that certificate signed there's no way to verify that they are pedigree dogs. Wrong, wrong, wrong.

Feild Spaniels are awesome My friend owns and shows a feild spaniel (I have handled her in the ring a handfull of times aswell) and she has the most DEVINE temperment! You have to watch your lines as some can be abit skitty but the good ones are BRILLIANT! Fields are the best Not that I'm biased or anything LOL. As my friend said above you do have to be careful with lines and be prepared to socialise them within the first year to ensure they meet new people, dogs, situations etc. But thats the same with all breeds to raise a well balanced dog. If you were in my state I would offer to meet my girl. There is a lovely breeder with similar lines in SA that you would be able to contact. No, they are totally accepting, will be a couch potato if you want them to be! Would you like to tell my Aussie that All I can say with the higher energy breeds is research and talk to your breeder about the best pup suited to you. There are chilled out Aussies and there are also those that like to go go go! Ripley would never be a couch potato. He is a mover......he loves to run more than anything and he can run all day, given the chance. Dusty, on the other hand, wouldn't move a muscle if she didn't have to, she's the ultimate easy-care, lazy persons dog. The other two are in between.....easy going, exercise or no exercise, they'll be happy either way. So yes, it definitely depends on the dog. Dusty is easy to live with but her laid back (lazy) attitude extends to performance, so she's been retired from showing and from obedience and she pooh-poohed herding as all to yucky for a princess. Her main goal in life is to lie at my feet and look adoringly at me, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. The comment was in reference to Bearded Collies, not Australian Shepards. Unfortunately I have never owned one so I have no first hand knowledge of it! Sorry!!!!

No I don't think that's OK, I don't see anything funny about allowing one animal to harass another. As for those of you who breed/show - please read the original post again - they are normal pets, they are both desexed. I did not answer with regards to breeding/showing dogs. I would expect them to have normal urges but unless breeding, I'd also expect owners of undesexed dogs to prevent issues because it's a huge responsibility. And yes - I've had both undesexed dogs here plus bitches on heat. You CAN desex male dogs later in life and remove the sexual urge - I've had 2 out of 4 desexed males show zero interest in a bitch on heat. the other two were interested and fought so, as a responsible owner, I separate the dogs and got the bitch desexed asap but then I'm also rehoming rescue dogs and would never rehome an undesexed dog. Sorry, I did not see the part about the dogs already desexed, so my comment is not relevant! I think there just exploring there sexual urges! Good on them for finding an outlet.

Im not saying that it isn't about dominance. But it also can be about a pup, dog or bitch exploring and acting on natural urges given to the animal. And im not making that up either. As the op said that her animals are desexed, as she is a responsible pet owner, the comment i made about show/breeding animals is beside the point~! Your blanket statement made it sound as though every time a dog humps another it is dominating it, and that just isn't true as im sure your trainers would agree, and punishing a dog for acting on a natural instinct just because humans see it as wrong is not right. In every relationship there are dominant/submissive positions, and to rule out all signs of dominance is not only impossible, but is is destroying the natural order of thing that we as humans have engrained into our animals over thousands of years! Just as long as YOU are top of the pack and the dog is not humping you i don't see any problem with it! there just acting and relieving thier sexual urges

Not if your dog is a stud or for breeding dog. Yes its about dominance, but yelling, and strongly correcting breeding animals for acting on thier sexual urges can put them off when the time comes to do the deed! If you don't believe me, we just had an incident at a mating where a male dog who would get into trouble through his younger years for humping a teddy bear, and his brother, even sometimes playfully corrected, was so confused that he refused to do the 'deed' with his owner present. He was so confused and kept looking to her for the ok, but no matter how positive she was, he had been led to believe that acting on his sexual urges is wrong. The mating happened fine without intervention from the owners, but as soon as she stepped in to assist with the tie he would dismount and try and get reassurance. But if there not breeding animals then yes, for all means correct the behaviour, or better yet, get the animal desexed as i believe all dogs who are not breeding/show animals should be. Desexing reduces the amount of testosterone/oestreogen in the animals system, thus reducing the animals sexual desires. At my house, our little girl humps our baby boy, and the boy returns the favour in equal amounts. I just laugh it off, as they both are show dogs, and we are planning to maybe breed them in the future. While I do agree that correction of a dog intended for breeding could/would result in a level of confusion and anxiety (particularly if the corrector is present), I don't agree completely that there is a need to desex a dog or bitch who not intended for breeding. From what I have observed you would need to desex very early to completely eliminate sexual urges, if you could at all, and desexing may not be in the best interests of the dogs physical development. I see no issue with a dog not intended for breeding remaining entire on the proviso the owner understands their responsibilities. In my case my boy has four brothers, three of which are shown and two are battling it out for the breeds rising star (go boys ). So it's highly unlikely he'd be called on to do the deed to benefit his breed (dispite the fact he is clearly the best of all of them ;) ). When he is closer to the age at which his breeder has recommend desexing we will have a discussion, I do not see why he should necessarily be desexed if I feel I can prevent him from producing a litter, but of course if his breeder disagrees I will gladly honour our original agreement without question. Having said that if I felt my situation has changed and I could not give that guarantee his jewels would be on the cutting block. If you are a responsible pet owner, which obviously you are, there are no problems. However, not everyone is a responsible pet owner. And there are far too many puppies in the world than responsible homes for them. Im not against you or your opinions I just have a strongly held belief that if you are not actively breeding or showing a dog it should be desexed. No discrimination against anyone, its just my personal belief. If a dog is not on main register then it should be desexed at an age that is appropriate and agreed by with your breeder. There are far too many irresponsible people out there who have dogs and are only too prepared to have a litter for the sake of it, or for the money. We were just recently contacted by someone who met us at a dog show and told us they had a pure breed dog that they would like to breed with one of our boys. We investigated but once the papers were sent to us it turned out that the dog was on limited. We contacted the breeder who had bred the bitch and it turned out that she had a desex clause on her contract of sale, however the person had evaded all contact and had moved with the dog. And now they were actively seeking males to service her so, and this is a quote from the owner, 'they could make 7 times the investment back on the puppies!!!) There are so many situations that exist in the world, where dogs are PTS, or have to live in shelters because people have bred too many pups for the world. I also see no point in keeping dogs entire if they are not breeding or show animals. There are many health benefits that are felt by the dog, and the owner, that for the life of me i don't understand it! And you may be able to prevent him having a litter, but there are people out there that just don't care, and that's why I believe there should be blanket legislation covering this. Plus there are reasons that breeders ask for the animals to be desexed, and put on limited and that is usually because they feel that there is no benefit to the BREED to have that animal be bred from, and in some instances there are serious hereditary and health reasons why a pup should not be bred from. But i do agree with you that desexing does not completely remove the animals sexual desire/impulses but it is proven that it does reduce the amount of sexual hormones released by the animal and therefore helps a little bit, if not a lot.

is he desexed or not? we had a problem with a male dog marking, and it was a nightmare trying to train him out of it. but is it a wee or a mark?

you may want to write this in a manner which indicates that they are dogs .... true, but i thought that may be particularly obvious! there both still baby puppies. otherwise that is an UNACCEPTABLE behaviour!!!! lol.

mum did agility and obedience with the beardies, and they showed at conformation as well, but they are the 'clowns' of the dog world. but i love the look of the toller's as well, as long as your able to keep up with thier fitness requirements. but the above post is right, the rarer the breed the harder to get a pup, but then again, if you don't mind waiting for the perfect pup for your life (and who wouldn't considering its a 10 to 15 year commitment, what's a couple of months?) the rarer breeds can offer you alot! (i own a rarish breed and i love them so much, and love when they get confused for something more popular!!!)

No, they are totally accepting, will be a couch potato if you want them to be!

Totally accepting of a missed day here and there, and equally love being couch potatoes!