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Wow. This statement is basically saying that the ANKC should be the ultimate arbiters of all dog-kind. That would be horrific, especially given they aren't the only register (working registers for example), and even worse, would mean the eradication of Koolies E: there are plenty of reasons for breeding dogs that have nothing to do with conforming to a show standard. Horses for courses. I agree, horses for courses, and I agree that would mean that they would become the ultimate arbiters. I believe there should be an ultimate arbiter of ALL dogs, of ALL registers. . Maybe that way we could begin to start a future for dogs that are born as healthily and happily as possible, reduce overpopulation, etc, etc. However, I do admit that even within the ANKC there are registered breeders that are puppy farmers in all but name. But I do believe that we should have a major overhaul in the way dogs are bred, sold, etc in general. We should have an overseeing body that controls ALL dogs. Its a fantasy I know, but in an ideal world that would be what happens. why don't the ANKC recognise Koolies? (im not up to date on that particular debate) is there any Koolie organisation working towards registration? or have they been denied it?

Im not sure that's always the case. Some breeds seem to rarely have main registered puppies available. It seems unless you know the right person or are already showing it's difficult to enter the showing scene with a breed you really liked and wanted to start out with (but which might be considered rare or expensive). A lot of ads for these types of breeds seem to offer all puppies on limited only. Is it to keep the puppies safe from those who would breed them without purpose, or because most of the puppies aren't show quality? If its because they aren't show quality wouldn't that be cause for concern in regards to breeding plans? ALL of the show dogs I have bought have been from people who only sell/ and or advertise thier dogs for sale on limited. I just had to talk to them, explain who i was, my motives, etc and they have become the most trusted and loyal supporters. We knew no-one and nothing, and I have managed to buy show quality puppies and become a breeder. I admit yes, I was rejected by a whole heap, who now I am known offer me pups, but I suppose its because they get burnt that they are so careful. And yes, I think the majority are sold on limited due to the breeding concern, but there are simply those that have traits that shouldn't be bred from (even minor ones like mis-marks, wrong tailsets, etc.)

This forum has made me shake my head in disbelief. I can't believe the number of people on a pure-breed dog forum who condone the intentional or unintentional breeding of dogs on the limited register. I am not talking about dogs on main register, and if you won't to start showing or breeding you need to buy a dog on main anyway. Nobody sells a dog on main and expects you to desex it. No, the issue is with dogs on limited being sold and desexed. Now, the breeder has decided that the dog for whatever reason is not to be sold on main. If they believed it was show/breeding quality they would try and sell it as a main register puppy and get more money for it in the process. The reason a dog is sold on limited may not be apparent to you. It may not be a major structural fault, nor a fault that's obvious to the eye. Maybe the lines have thrown pups with problems, or maybe DNA tests have revealed a that the pup or its father/mother/sister etc are carriers of something, or maybe its father/mother/sister has HD or a patella, or PRA,etc,etc. There could be a million reasons, that are unknown to you. The dog is sold on the condition that it is not bred or shown from. Now if people were honest and ethical I suppose there would be no need for desexing clauses, but not everyone is. And the contract is there to protect the breed, and dogs in general. How else are we to eradicate the many hereditary problems that are out there if we do not stop those affected or are carriers being bred from? How do we stop the social problem of unwanted dogs ending up in shelters? How do we stop our purebred dogs becoming the parents of future breeds of designer dogs, and cross-breeds if we do not stop them being bred from? And on the legal side, a contract is a contract. But, if something is sold on a contract, then it is sold on a contract. If you don't like it don't be deceptive and buy it, because you are just scamming the seller, no matter what your views towards desexing are. I personally believe in compulsory desexing for all dogs sold that are not sold on main registration, and that doesn't just include dogs on limited, I mean designer dogs, cross-breeds, puppy farm owned dogs, etc. I see it as the only way to stop the overpopulation of dogs in this country and others. Im not sure about the info posted about early desexing, I just can't see how it could be true, some of the facts beggar belief, especially those about structural changes due to early operation. Its just my opinion, and Im sure there are a hundred million pages that could be linked to challenge my belief, but the internet is the internet after all, and all information needs to be carefully assessed before deciding on. I also believe that the more information out there only confuses the general public more.

No, we haven't finished ours yet, because it's a collaboration between both breed clubs and all amendments must be discussed and agreed to by both committees it has taken quite a while. Tibbiesby2 I suggest that you contact your state breed club, like us they may still be working on it, but they should be able tell you when it's expected to be finalised. Thank you. I was wondering how they came about, and now I know why the one for Cavies is not ready yet!

Oh My Gosh!! In toy breeds, almost every dog with a bracephalic (??not sure on spelling, sorry) has a lengthened soft palate. In Cavies it causes them to snore, snortle, and at times they even have this choking fit that they need help with. Almost every Cavie I have come across in the show ring has a problem with some of these issues just to varying degrees. Surgery has never been recommended and I have never heard of anyone having one done on thier dogs. After all if its just snoring, that's not really a HUGE issue. Probably just an overkeen new vet, trying to push unneccesary op's on to you. Ive never had a staffie but I believe in any dog where the length of muzzle is an issue this would occur.

There is nothing in the standard about nose colour. The extended breed standard does say I do find the different prices for different colour and for dogs and bitches a bit disturbing. ETA for future reference list of ANKC breed standards http://www.ankc.org.au/Breeds.aspx I don't understand the colours but I do understand for the differing sexes, it is quite common for bitches on main to be sold at a higher cost, after all if you are using them for breeding then the value of a bitch is higher than that of a dog BUT if they are just pets that are going to be desexed I don't really get it.

Does anyone know if anybody runs show training somewhere on the Central Coast, I know they do at Hillsborough but that is an hour away and was wondering if there was anything closer. Or if not, would anyone be interested in meeting up once a week/fortnight somewhere on the Coast and sharing our knowledge at a location convienent to all?

Does anyone know where I can find the extended breed standard for the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel?

How will breeding from a Limited Reg dog effect the legacy of a prefix Or introduce defects to the pedigree Main Reg gene pool? Limited Reg are pups that go to homes who do not intend to show or breed. Limited Reg does not nec. mean that puppy is not of show / breed potential. Re the bolded text above: you may want to consider why most of the world dont follow this desex fervor. I was going to highlight exactly the same sentence. Desexing is routine yes........ safe- well not really no GA is considered safe. Also what are the emotional benefits to the dog- I assume you are anthropomorphising as much as the OP on that one. My pups will go out on a desexing contract but that wont mean that I dont talk to the owner. If they can give me a valid reason to not have the procedure and they understand that the dog is not to be bred from then I cant see why a responsible owner cant keep an entire animal. I mean I have for the past 6yrs so why cant someone else?? If I didnt think the owner were responsible enough to do this they wouldnt be getting one of my pups! ETA having an entire male dog does mean they need all the relevant health checks done regularly. I desex bitches after maturity because pyo is scary! You are right limited register does not mean that the dog is not of show/breed potential, however, for whatever reason the breeder does not want you to show/breed and as it is THERE dogs you are buying, and have years of experience with, what gives you the right to go in and change that. And no one wants a dog they have sold to you as a limited dog going and being bred, it affects thier name and thier lines in the following ways: You breed your dog, you don't know why the breeder has not put it into the show ring, or want it bred from but you decide to anyway. You then use the dogs prefix in selling the pups, because after all that is the mothers name on the limited papers, and you get more money if you pass them off as purebreed. After all, you did not pay the money that would of secured you a purebreed dog, you paid the LIMITED price, but hey, you paid your money and went to the trouble of getting a pure breed. Then it gets around that the breeder is selling puppies that are not up to standard and then people are breeding from them. The show world is very small, everyone knows pretty much everyone, it doesn't take long to get around. And I didn't say it affected the main reg pool - I SAID IT AFFECTED THE BREED AS A WHOLE. And it does. Breeding dogs that are not deemed quality enough to put onto main is breeding inferior dogs, and I don't care what way you put it. If you decide to breed with a dog of another breed, or an accident with the neighbourhood dog occurs you are then adding to the cross-breed population. Secondly, I know that anthromorphising is the buzz word at the moment, but that is not what I am doing at all. Desexing has clear health benefits, as you point out for females because as you say pyro is scary, so is uterine infections, etc,etc, and in males so is prostate cancer! The emotional issues I was referring to is reduced aggression, reduced sexual drive, and the reduced need to pee on everything, and scratching your fence down to get to bitches in season. I have nothing against your opinion on desexing I was just giving my personal feelings, which after all is what this forum is meant to be about.

A desexing contract would hold up in court and you would lose if you bought a dog and then defiantly decided against it even it if is for your own personal reasons. No breeder specifies desexing to hold thier market position. Instead they are protecting years and years of hard work perfecting thier lines. They do not want you to breed your dogs to anyone or anything and do not feel comfortable with desexing before the pup leaves thier home at eight weeks. I understand that your anti -desexing (no idea why but uh um) but you have to see it from the breeder's perspective as well. They have spent years carefully choosing thier dams and sires (parents), testing for and eliminating herditary diseases, selecting the best puppies from litters to breed from, in some cases importing dogs to improve on thier breeding, and paying good hard earned money on sires from dogs that don't belong to them. All of this takes time, money and above all love. They see thier dogs as most see thier children, and thier art is to perfect on thier dogs strengths and eliminate weaknesses. Thier prefix is thier name, and that name symbolises what there dogs are, so to protect thier lines, and thier name, and the breed that they have so carefully cultivated over what may be a lifetime, they ask that the puppies that they don't sell on Main register (which means BREEDING OR SHOW QUALITY) they ask that all the rest be desexed. That way no one can breed from them, and introduce faults, and inheritable diseases. this not only protects the breeder but it also protects THE BREED. After all your attracted to a certain breed for a particular reason. if the breed is not protected from uneducated and indiscriminate breeding it will become unrecognisable, something i believe that you would respect seeing you are considering buying a pedigree dog. I have only just got my prefix but I will tell you that I would not consider backing down from my desexing contracts. There are reasons that dogs are sold on limited and that I because they are not considered a good enough example of the breed standard. If you want to get a vasectomy that is your choice, and I would make you wear the cost for that decision. Desexing is a safe, routine procedure that has multiple health and emotional benefits to the dogs, no matter what sex. I would have no trouble with taking someone to court if I found that someone had breeched the contract and bred from a dog that I considered below that quality. And I know people always say that they would never do that, but so far in my breeding experience I personally know of numerous cases of people who have bought dogs on limited and then tried to and or sucessfully bred the dogs that were meant to be desexed. Not only that, they then tried to pass the puppies off as purebreds, and in one case even challenged the breeder to have them registered as such. I find it abhorrent that such things happen. And I know there are always those that say 'she/he doesn't go anywhere/ there's no way they could do it/ i don't walk my dog when in season, etc, etc, but it would keep me up at night if I knew that an accident, no matter how innocent resulted in a litter of unwanted puppies (pure bred, or cross-bred). Please don't decieve the breeder - be upfront and see what happens, but don't lie your way out of it.

I agree completely!

I tried to be a deviant and it wouldn't let me - it just came up with a search with official copyright sites!

Love the tone of underlying judgement of a person in a horrific situation. I hope that the person responsible is found soon, and your pups are returned. My brother had a dog stolen from his yard, on Christmas Night, but she was later dumped when it turned out she was desexed and therefore useless to a puppy operation. No-one's been found, but at least he got the dog back. We actually had heaps of success on a lost and found facebook page. A man who read the post spotted her the next day and returned her. So I def advocate fb.

Where is this 'inside' you speak of???

that makes me feel better!! hopefully tommorow! if its like normal then i do, otherwise unsure until tommorow (hopefully!)

Yeah im not sure what's going on? i haven't recieved my entries back,so hopefully there in the mail tommorow. Just wish i knew.

Before I get told, yes i know its only Tuesday! But my cheque is not showing up on my account as presented and am hoping nothing has gone wrong?!!! Has anyone else got thier numbers for this weekends show at Morisett yet?

where's the pic of the tibbie in the group!???!!?? shame, you would of had the whole group line up without that exception. some really great photos in there.

I agree with this! if its not a registered breeding or show animal, it should be desexed! easy, no excuses! but your right i don't know about the enforcement side of it.

I have never done this before, but am so excited i just had to share My new little Tibbie, Banlan Cha Cha Cha has had her first show in minor at the age of 6 months and 4 days and has walked out with BEST OF BREED, 3 Bitch CC's and a 3rd in 6-12 month sweepstakes and my boy Tibbie walked away with 3 Baby Puppy of Breeds - am so HAP-HAP-HAPPY!!!

Are you serious? Or do you really not understand it? I get it, it can all be confusing but your def not being manipulated.

I'm sorry I really don't know, when we camp there we are near the toy ring and we just sort of go on the other side of the dirt road. Sorry I can't be of more help!

All of my dogs have had a reaction and a lump to thier vaccination sites that have appeared in the neck/collar area. But I also have a puppy whose microchip has moved and so he has a small lump on his shoulder. Im sure its nothing to worry about. Microchips can move from thier implantation site and cause a small lump.

Is it 12pm Thursday or 12 hours before the start of the show???

I actually agree with you. I was happy that RUBOB were actually recognised in the pointscore, and now am pretty disgusted that there not. It is unfair that a dog that may be the second best dog in the ring and has beaten the bitch actually gets no recognition at all. For example, if the BOB is the DCC, and then the RUBOB is the RDCC, therefore in the judges opinion the second dog is a better one than the best bitch. I know that they also recieve no official points but I actually believe that is a bit unfair as well, and I thought it was great that the RUBOB were recognised for thier achievements on Dogzonline.