stone

I still would like the choice and would happily comply with any rules to keep a dog entire if i choose to do so. Why? Any specific reason other than just because you want to? Animal rights? The pounds are full of unwanted dogs that wont need any rights in the near future. That rationale has nothing much to do with "animal rights" at all.

The CNCC showground at Hillsborough hosts shows almost every w/e. Have a cruise past, if there is a show in progress, call in, ask someone at the secretaries hut. I'm sure you find out all you need to know.

management discretion. If you have a complaint, complain to the management.

The longer the best dogs are exhibited the better. Too many really good dogs are retired much to early. IMO Now that the GC titled has been made harder to be obtained I hope the ANKC will revise the criteria for Ch status. Just turning up really isn't good enough.

The key word in the statement is ACCIDENTAL. I think most BYB dogs are bred on purpose. On the contrary, the key word is ''largely'' Entire dogs aren't ''largely'' responsible for "accidental" litters they are completely & absolutely responsible for all litters, ''accidental'' or otherwise. Which brings us back to the question - Only approved,licenced, ANKC registered/working dog register breeders allowed to have entire dogs? Which wont stop puppy millers of course, there are any amount of ANKC registered breeders who fit the description. Some advertise right here on DOL, as those who regularly visits their breeds advertised litters would know. But it would greatly, if not entirely, reduce the amount of BYB's & ''accidental'' litters.

Real estate agent geo?

The breeds listed are Amstaff Bernese Mountain Dog British Bulldog CKCS Chihuahua Dogue De Bordeaux French Bulldog Great Dane Labrador Poodle -toy & miniature Staffordshire Bull Terrier West Highland White. I assume these are the current popular breed for bucks victims. As for whether or not other/every breed is subject to the same criterior or whether a regular showie of 3 or more years of the listed breeds recently granted a prefix would be given special considerations? I have no idea You would need to approach the management of DOL for an answer to that.

Just received my e copy of National Dog & was happy/pleased/heartened to read that D.O.L is no longer automatically accepting applications for breeder memberships/litter postings for breeds considered to be exploited. Prefixes need to have been active for at least two years & dogs have to have been involved in ANKC sanctioned activities at least once in the last three years. Conformation, agility, trialling, obedience etc. before breeder/litter listing applications will be considered. As DOL is one of the biggest, if not the biggest, litter listing service in Oz, I for one congratulate them for such a positive move.

Hey, Stone, this thread is about antisocial dog behaviour, and you moved it on to a tangent by blaming the problem on cross breeding, which is somehow supposed to ruin temperament and produce out-of-control dogs. Would you please explain what pedigree breeders do, and what ANKC standards require them to do, to ensure that dogs have stable temperament. Thanks. Not guilty. As for the other? Research & responsible, selective breeding & puppy placing. While not 100% successful of course,(but what is?) Nature does have the knack of bowling a wrong un every now & again. They at least give it their best shot & by & large the outcome is something every ethical, responsible breeder has every right to be very proud of, when you get right down to it. If you were one you wouldn't have had to ask the question....sigh

You are way out of your depth here geo. Way out. I think it's propably the commitment to an ideal, coupled with the honest & ethical thingies required to succeed that has you struggling. You just can't seem to get a handle on the concept. But hey, Like everyone new to something they haven't experienced before, qualities so foreign to ones social & moral demographic, one would take quite some time adjusting, getting to really understand. "Comprehending". Being critical of something you aren't part of & have not ever been part of & are unlikely to ever be a participant in, doesn't do much for the credibility geo. Not much at all. Nil Actually.

Sometimes all that sets the 2 apart is a piece of paper, whether you agree or not. Sandgrubber is right. And so says geo, geo, outspoken advocate of the crossbreed, geo, who has no ''comprehension'' or respect for the ideals of the honesty, the responsibility, or the passion required/demanded for the ethical breeding of registered, recogniseable pure breeds. Honesty & ethics geo, they're the two biggies. Ah geo, your endorsment does nothing to enhance SGs position. Weakens it considerabley in fact. Thank you geo. You really are a pistol........ A water pistol

Even with my low powers of comprehrension It is patently obvious you are still advocating & attempting to justify, indicrimatinate breeding from dogs of mixed/unknown ancestory. Mongrels. ''A friend might want a puppy'' is a lamentably weak argument especially from one claiming to be securely ensconced amongst the true believers. Pathetic springs to mind. ( I think I comprehend pathetic) Trying to justify your obvious disregard of what is expected of registered breeders of registered pure breeds by attacking us poor less fortunates is typical of those found to be lacking of the ''stuff'' that sets us apart. Thou shall honour thy pledge. Thou shall not be hypocritical. Thou shall do the job or get of the pot.

There is a working breed register. Just to say one is crossbreeding, outbreeding, line breeding unregistered xbreeds as working dogs is just little far out there for credibility.....don't you reckon? To what gain? There is already a recognised pure breed suitable for any ''work'' already.

Heartbreaking, but them's the breaks. And it probably happens more often than not in breed. There can only be one winner per sex. And whats to say there aren't ten better examples in the BOB & R/U BOB side of the draw?

I don't know that keeping entire dogs contributes largely to litters bred by accident Not largely,no Entirely. ......no pun intended. How many accidental litters have been whelped by neutered dogs .

See post #75 Something to on with in the meantime. I did not say ANKC registered, I said registered. There are other registries beside ANKC. You either register what you breed, or you are just another idiot throwing two dogs together.

Tip, not criticism. You have chopped the ears off.

Thanks for the explanation of Merv's hat trick - that makes sense. With the RUBIS at Sydney Royal - I dont think it could be done as none of the RUBOB go through to compete at group - group is like at adelaide where it is BIG 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th - same for in show. (BIS, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th) Slips Spring Fair then........beat 1200....no points

Good call.

I'm totally in the pure breed / pedigree camp, but agree with KatrinaM. There are backyarders I would fault for not doing genetic tests, etc., but who breed primarily because their dogs have been fantastic companions and they and some friends want a pup . My comprehension must be off. It does appear to me you are saying it's o.k. to breed mongrels if friends want a puppy? Not an unusual scenario - friend wants a puppy - 8/10 in the litter- what then? Multiply that a couple of hundred/thousand times I know whose comprehension is out of whack. But hey, Maybe it's because I'm a pure breed aficiando that considers the ANKC CoE I have agreed to abide by actually means something that has you tossed? I'm just old fashioned you see, I believe a handshake is a deal, your word is your bond. Thou shall not breed mongrels. Thou shall not use unregistered dogs for breeding. Silly stuff like that.

correct me if I'm wrong - but I think the ANKC just removed that aspect of the rule when they changed the grand title again? Or did I read that wrong somewhere? Rare? Improbable? Absolutely. But possible. just as getting a hat trick in cricket in three seperate overs is rare. But it has been done. Swervin' Mervin' did it for one. Rare yes, but I have seen it at group level. RUBOB was also RUBIG for no challenge points I think. Fill me in on how Merve Hughes did it. I can't work out the maths for this. I know he got one over two innings (he got the last wicket of the innings and then when he came on to bowl in the second innings he got another one on the first ball of his first over in that innings) I just can't work out how over three overs.... Merv took a wicket with the last ball of one over, the last wicket of the innings with the first ball of his next over & a wicket with his first ball of the next innings. From memory, all wickets weren't even taken on the same day. Edit. It was a test match. As for the R/U BIS thing. While the specialty example is valid. In reality BIS speciality is akin to BOB. R/U BOB It is within the realms of possibility, but highly improbable, that the R/U best at the Sydney Royal could beat 4,000+ dogs & still not be awarded any championship points.

I do not support indiscriminate breeding of dogs but because I sit in both camps I have seen the best and worst in both. I can't see ANKC status as the dividing line, it seems to me to be more like the reasons why pups are bred, the after care and advice and the thought that goes into breeding that sort the good from the bad. [ I assume this isn't meant as it reads, that you are both an ANKC registered breeder who also breeds indiscriminately. But after rereading it acouple of times, i'm not real sure However, a question, if you are indeed an ANKC registered breeder don't you consider breeding unregistered xbreeds, or using any unregistered dog in a breeding programme, for any purpose, other than stated exemptions, guide dogs, police dogs etc, a contravention of the ANKC code of ethics. A code that explicitly forbids it? You can't really have a foot in both camps. You are either an ethical registered ANKC breeder that is bound by the code or you are just another indiscriminate breeder.

People who wish to breed should require licensing, education, a clear breeding path, code of ethics and the list goes on good idea. Just as ANKC registered breeders are......

Have you ever consider this is not the right forum for breeders of xbreed mongrels. You knowledge of animal husbandry appears to be very limited. I'm totally in the pure breed / pedigree camp, but agree with KatrinaM. There are backyarders I would fault for not doing genetic tests, etc., but who breed primarily because their dogs have been fantastic companions and they and some friends want a pup . . . as well as backyarders who end out with pups through carelessness . .. and those who try to get the perfect teacup -oodle. . . and those who breed FOR aggression. But many pedigree breeders will use a Gr Ch with known temperament faults, and some breeds seem to have gone downhill in the temperament spectrum (eg, the rash of aggressive Golden retrievers) through bad breeding. I would say this is a good reason NOT to get a pup from a petshop . . . . cause there's no way to find out what the sire and dam's temperament were like. I'm with TheCoat, I don't support deliberate byb for any reason. Accidental is bad enough, deliberate is diabolical. I don't know of any registered breeder that does & am really surprised to hear of an advocate of the registered pure breed fraternity that would. Working dog people, working working dogs i.e. are proud & protective of their reputations for quality & wouldn't just pump out any old any old either.