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Obviously you are not from NSW, westiemum! The man is a right wing dictator who has his eyes set on Canberra and most likely leadership, in time, of the Federal Liberal Party. There are 65 greyhound tracks in the country, 33 in NSW. In our regional towns and cities, and particularly in Sydney, the greyhound tracks sit on valuable land that developers have been trying to get their hands on for decades. This is nothing more than a land grab and what makes it more obvious is that other states are not following suit. The exception is the ACT which has followed NSW. Coincidence that they have been trying to move the greyhound club off the land at Symonston for sometime and that they have also expressed a desire to resume the land at Thoroughbred Park? No trifecta its obvious I'm not from NSW and its unlike you to be so rude. This is a national forum and where you are from should not dictate your opinion. The use of the land will be dictated by the owners as it should be - some is owned by the Crown (e.g. Wentworth Park), others are in private hands such as the track at Richmond. And thats as it should be. If Crown land is required for housing (public or private) or is retained for public space I have no problem with it. In fact it could be argued that the Greyhound industry has tied up enough public land for long enough - decades - that its now time for it to be returned to general public benefit and use. The other states are not following suit for now. The minister here today has said 'zero tolerance', report cruelty and and if he has any evidence of cruelty and abhorrent practices he will follow suit. The major difference between NSW and the other states is that NSW was the only one to have the guts and integrity to form a legally constituted Commission of Enquiry headed by a former High Court judge which could compel witnesses to testify. The other states without exception ran superficial white-wash inquiries which would suggest that its only a matter of time before this industry blows up in the other states as well. Anyone who thinks these practices are isolated to NSW is not grounded in reality. There is already adhoc evidence that entry to some tracks in SA is by 'live possum'. And I'm sure they are not for childrens' petting farms. I find this very hard to believe, the last place they would live bait is on an official racetrack. The footage on the Four Corners report was at a private track.

Unfortunately I believe that is what will happen. When they closed one small country track, Wangaratta, there were many dogs euthanized I did hear around 600 not sure how accurate that figure is though, hopefully it was grossly exaggerated. Greys are hard to rehome I hope the measures the government have got in place to handle the unwanted greys will go on for at least a couple of years as I believe it will be a very long term project.

I absolutely agree with you but.. it's really not that simple. Changes have to be made in a number of areas, with the support of the participants and without angling those changes towards ending the industry (because participants will never support changes intended to put them out of business). The changes needed aren't things like limiting breeding in itself but instead, broadening the grading system (to include slower dogs- as I've pointed out before, a race between a bunch of slow dogs is still a race), changing qualifying requirements so that dogs aren't excluded before they've even had a chance to race and keeping dogs in work longer so that breeding restrictions aren't as necessary to start with. If the average greyhound could work up until the age of four (or even five), dogs would need "replacing" with less frequency (so less litters bred), which in turn would reduce pressure on rescue/rehoming groups- meaning that those dogs would have a better chance at being rehomed. For dogs who are injured and unable to continue racing at a younger age, the reduced number of dogs flowing into rescues would also benefit them, not just because of more space available but also more resources available for treatment and care. It'd be great to see a change that would bring about the closure of certain greyhound warehousing "rescues" where dogs are living within the bare minimums of welfare standards, while those groups continue to accept numbers beyond their capacity simply because the dogs are there for the taking. This is a good idea but it wouldn't have helped two of the babies I helped raise for a bit over 12mths, from one of the lets do a deal litters, whose lives ended a couple of days ago. Their first time owner with stars in his eyes and money to burn didn't want dogs that paid their way (they had both won races), he wanted dogs that won him substantial amounts of money, he wanted to play with the big boys. They weren't even two yrs old, both of those dogs would have made lovely pets. It was a very bitter pill for me to swallow even though I knew that it was inevitable that not all the dogs (who I knew much better than their owners did) were going to live their life out as they should. An example of this is, one of the owners came to check up on his dogs, I wasn't there and the boss who didn't know the dogs as well as I did accidently showed this owner the wrong dogs. There were dogs with colours in the litter he was shown that weren't in his litter and the owner was none the wiser.

Make a movie with a greyhound in it :laugh: .

Sure the public are being educated but they are not just being educated by people who use a few cases to sensationalise via the media.They are also being educated by the response - which to live lures was that this is unacceptable, the people have been punished and steps will be taken to ensure it doesn't happen again. Ordinary everyday members of the public have no reason to continue to be interested about live lures - its not like the industry came out and said they agreed with it and they would continue to use this method to train their dogs. The finding of mass graves shows that lots are being killed but the public already know lots of dogs are being killed - animal rights and animal welfare have been telling them this for decades.The general public have heard all about piggeries, caged birds, crutching and mulsing,jumping and whipping horses,duck shooting, fox hunting, Roo shooting,deer shooting, abattoir and knackery practices, live animal transport and export etc. They have seen people who call themselves rescuers who hoard animals and keep them in filthy conditions, they have seen show judges of dogs, cats and horses prosecuted for animal cruelty , small breeders and large breeders under the spotlight,accused of all manner of cruelty and neglect including mass graves, and pedigree dogs exposed, the pet shops exposed and accused for a pile of things, including where they buy their puppies from, just before Easter a vet nurse who worked for the RSPCA was found guilty of neglect and cruelty and Im sorry I just dont think that the majority of people care that much about how many greys are bred which wont cut the grade or where they are buried enough for a government to bring in legislation that would adversely affect so many people including them. No one is accusing them of being as bad as puppy farmers "breeding their poor bitches to death" keeping them in filthy conditions, not feeding them well enough, not vetting them, or exercising them, using methods to transport them that are cruel, breeding them with adverse genetic conditions,doping them, inhumanely killing them etc. The dogs they discard are treated well until the day they die. When you feel passionate about something and you feel that what you are seeing is so horrible you expect that everyone else will see things your way - all you have to do is tell them about what you feel is needing to be changed and of course how could they not agree. In my opinion,regardless of how I feel about it or how those who care enough to beat their drum want it greyhound racing and betting on greyhound racing is not going to be banned in Australia in the foreseeable future and I think its unrealistic to put energy into fighting for this at this time.At best you may chase off some sponsors but that's a small impact. I think focusing on this and believing that it will happen because of an assumption that the majority of the people who vote and make decisions will agree with you once they are educated and not consider potential unintended consequences that this is the preferable solution is an obstacle in finding viable solutions now today. That has nothing to do with how much I care or how passionate I am to try to find solutions for the dogs - I just dont agree that the problem is as uncomplicated as some think it is and I don't agree that the solutions that some want to focus on hold the short term answers. I would like the opportunity to discuss other potential actions we might be able to advocate for which are more realistic to help the dogs now without having to wear amour and having to defend myself as if Im condoning the current situation. Ok fair enough, what do you think could be a viable solution?

Maybe the majority of the general public aren't really concerned about the dog's but they may be concerned as a taxpayer having people who have lost jobs draw on the economy rather than contribute to it. Parents may be concerned about even more people competing with their children for the few jobs out there.

Yes maybe to you or I but to many of these owners it is a drop in the ocean, the others take calculated risks. If the risk is too high they won't do it

I'm sorry I don't agree from my experience it is the fact they might breed a dog that can win 10's -100's of thousands of dollars for them and earn them 10's - 100's of thousands of dollars by breeding with that dog. It just takes a lot of dogs to get that next Brett Lee. As it is at the moment it is relatively cheap for them to produce those pups and there are cheap options for them to "waste" many of those dogs/pups.

Yes the few dogs I've adopted out and the three currently with me aren't registered anywhere as being rehomed, and I know of quite few others the same, either with their owners or they were given to someone else. As far as warehousing dogs go, the kennel that I worked at did not kennel the spelling dogs as kennelled dogs are labour intensive. They were kept in yards individually with a kennel and shelter in it and while they didn't get as much human attention as the kennelled dogs or the young ones that were being educated, they still got to run up and down their yards with their neighbours, fed well, vet care etc. While not ideal, I think even 12 mths living like this is better than being euthed and from watching these dogs living like this I'm sure they would agree. We had enough land to fit in another probably 50 dogs, My boss would have jumped at the opportunity to set this up, as it would be another source of income for him I'm sure other rearing/spelling kennel proprietors would feel the same way. I know that if owners knew that it was going to cost them say 2-3000 dollars more per pup to whelp and raise it to rehoming stage through extra fees etc, than it does now, they would think very seriously about having a litter. As it is they do deals with rearers, trainers etc "you do this for me, we'll breed my bitch and you can have a couple of pups" which makes it even cheaper again, take that away and there would definitely be a lot less pups bred. ETA Three of the four litters we bred at the kennels were only produced because a deal was done.

I wish I had the same faith in these people just giving up as you do. Illegalising the drug trade hasn't made it go away, from what I can gather from reading the paper it is well and truly alive and kicking. Racing and gambling are fuelled by the same motivators, addiction and greed. Do you really think the TAB is going lie down quietly while their income taken away (as horses will be next)

Why not provide incentives for the owners to not even breed their bitch in the first place or purchase less pups by increasing the cost through an increase of fees to get the pups to racing status and make owners think about the pups/dog's life after racing and how much that will cost them rather than which vet they will use. Why couldn't the owner keep the dog at a spelling kennel until rescue can take it, I could see kennel owners jumping right on board with this one.

Breeders only breed because the demand (people wanting to buy the next Brett Lee) is there, breeding animals with potential to produce profitable offspring is pretty much standard practise, people realise that breeding with dogs or bitches that aren't proven is a waste of money. Like the example I gave before of Brett Lee having thousands of offspring for very little results and none as good as him, despite knowing this they keep trying. If these owners are going to want to purchase the dog to satisfy whatever desire be it money or self esteem why shouldn't they and others that stand to gain from the dog if it happens to do well, fund that dog's life until it is rehomed. I see that as taking the pressure off rescue. While I've only rehomed about 20 or so dogs they have been funded entirely by me and some were with me for a couple of years. I'm not as well off as many of these owners and I would love some help to clean up the mess they created.

Many many more Greyhounds than 15k per year would be killed? Really? I find that very hard to believe. If legislation was changed so the owners are made accountable until the dog is rehomed, yes. If the industry comes to an abrupt halt with things as they are there will be lot more than 15,000 dogs needing homes. Maybe it would be only a "one of" mass killing (because like everyone is saying there isn't enough homes and the owners will be able to euth an investment that has just lost the opportunity to hopefully make the owner some money) and the underground industry may not kill as many dogs (as HW said we don't really know that) but nothing can be monitored if it is underground to ensure the wellbeing of the dogs. The same goes for gambling, a market for SP bookies would be created. I was working in pubs back in day when illegal SP bookies were plentiful and appeared to have thriving business's. One of the pubs I worked at even had a TAB outlet about three shops down the road, the SP bookie there certainly didn't go hungry.

I agree with Gruf on both counts. Will also point out that, like other dogs, there have been plenty of laws made that have not been enforced. Enforce those laws they do have and new laws might not be needed. Exactly, except I would like to see the owners of the dogs be made accountable for their lives after racing and ways found to be able to do that. As far as I know it already happens in Vic. But I also agree with Wreckit, why just one breed? I thought WW was referring to racing if WW was referring all dog owners as I said great clean out the pounds too. Yes the law is there but I have first hand experience of that not happening, When I thought I needed to put the dog into my name to rehome it, the person at GRV I talked to told me it didn't need to be and the dog would crossed of the racing register end of story, no more paper trail. I could have been feeding him a porky, this is one reason why it needs to be policed.

Because they are the ones that choose to purchase the dog, nobody forced them to do it. As I said bookies and the Tab could help too as they are making money from the owners efforts to put them on the track so they can conduct their business.

oops double post

I agree with Gruf on both counts. Will also point out that, like other dogs, there have been plenty of laws made that have not been enforced. Enforce those laws they do have and new laws might not be needed. Exactly, except I would like to see the owners of the dogs be made accountable for their lives after racing and ways found to be able to do that.

Good dogs do make lots of money but they are a very very very small %. This why slow dogs are destroyed to make room for the next Brett Lee hopeful. For those that don't know Brett Lee is the worlds fastest Greyhound, his service fee (straws) was $32,000 last time I looked, not to mention what he actually won for his owners. Thousands of offspring over many years but none are as good as dad. It is very hard to get a good dog, but that doesn't stop people from trying because if they do make it financially it is worth it, at least the unprofitable dogs won't die if legislation is introduced and the industry is monitored and policed, by an independent body. Most of the unprofitable dogs will still die because the simple fact is too many are bred in the pursuit of greed and there are not ten thousand or so suitable retirement homes for greyhounds PER ANNUM in Australia. Not if legislation was changed. Look how quickly the bikie laws were introduced it was only a matter of months. The money generated from the rise in regos can fund extra facilities being started to cater for the retired dogs. If it cost the owners an extra $500 dollars per dog to actually get their dogs to retirement stage and that money went to that independent body it could be possible. The bookies and TAB could help too. 'Extra facilities for retired dogs' Are you suggestion they be sent to kennels or some sort of mass retirement home, rather than an actual family home? Not really a solution. There are currently way too many potential racing greyhounds bred for there to ever be enough retirement homes for them. Nothing you can say will change my mind that racing animals for sports betting can ever be a good thing for humanity. The facilities for them to be assessed in and live at until they are rehomed. It's a pity that I can't change the mind of you and others who think the industry should go because if the industry is closed down I'm guessing it would go underground MANY MANY more animals WOULD SUFFER and DIE in the long term. There are too many bred for them all, or even a reasonable percentage, to ever be rehomed. If demand goes so will supply. Demand will drop, some owners are really stingy, they whinge that it costs them heaps to raise and race a dog now. That's another reason they don't go into rescue they think that rescue organisations make money from their dogs and why should they pay to give them their dogs.

Good dogs do make lots of money but they are a very very very small %. This why slow dogs are destroyed to make room for the next Brett Lee hopeful. For those that don't know Brett Lee is the worlds fastest Greyhound, his service fee (straws) was $32,000 last time I looked, not to mention what he actually won for his owners. Thousands of offspring over many years but none are as good as dad. It is very hard to get a good dog, but that doesn't stop people from trying because if they do make it financially it is worth it, at least the unprofitable dogs won't die if legislation is introduced and the industry is monitored and policed, by an independent body. Most of the unprofitable dogs will still die because the simple fact is too many are bred in the pursuit of greed and there are not ten thousand or so suitable retirement homes for greyhounds PER ANNUM in Australia. Not if legislation was changed. Look how quickly the bikie laws were introduced it was only a matter of months. The money generated from the rise in regos can fund extra facilities being started to cater for the retired dogs. If it cost the owners an extra $500 dollars per dog to actually get their dogs to retirement stage and that money went to that independent body it could be possible. The bookies and TAB could help too. 'Extra facilities for retired dogs' Are you suggestion they be sent to kennels or some sort of mass retirement home, rather than an actual family home? Not really a solution. There are currently way too many potential racing greyhounds bred for there to ever be enough retirement homes for them. Nothing you can say will change my mind that racing animals for sports betting can ever be a good thing for humanity. The facilities for them to be assessed in and live at until they are rehomed. It's a pity that I can't change the mind of you and others who think the industry should go because if the industry is closed down I'm guessing it would go underground MANY MANY more animals WOULD SUFFER and DIE in the long term.

Good dogs do make lots of money but they are a very very very small %. This why slow dogs are destroyed to make room for the next Brett Lee hopeful. For those that don't know Brett Lee is the worlds fastest Greyhound, his service fee (straws) was $32,000 last time I looked, not to mention what he actually won for his owners. Thousands of offspring over many years but none are as good as dad. It is very hard to get a good dog, but that doesn't stop people from trying because if they do make it financially it is worth it, at least the unprofitable dogs won't die if legislation is introduced and the industry is monitored and policed, by an independent body. Most of the unprofitable dogs will still die because the simple fact is too many are bred in the pursuit of greed and there are not ten thousand or so suitable retirement homes for greyhounds PER ANNUM in Australia. Not if legislation was changed. Look how quickly the bikie laws were introduced it was only a matter of months. The money generated from the rise in regos can fund extra facilities being started to cater for the retired dogs. If it cost the owners an extra $500 dollars per dog to actually get their dogs to retirement stage and that money went to that independent body it could be possible. The bookies and TAB could help too.

Because the law will say they need to be responsible and each dog will have a paper trail. GRA already has a paper trail. Any retired Grey must be accounted for. If you want to bring in legislation that requires a paper trail for dogs, then this must apply to everyone. All breeders, owners, trainers and the general public. What's good for the goose is good for the gander and this includes the thousands of "pet" owners that dump and or dispose of their animals . Wouldn't it be great clean out pounds as well. Those that do the right thing have no worries.

Good dogs do make lots of money but they are a very very very small %. This why slow dogs are destroyed to make room for the next Brett Lee hopeful. For those that don't know Brett Lee is the worlds fastest Greyhound, his service fee (straws) was $32,000 last time I looked, not to mention what he actually won for his owners. Thousands of offspring over many years but none are as good as dad. It is very hard to get a good dog, but that doesn't stop people from trying because if they do make it financially it is worth it, at least the unprofitable dogs won't die if legislation is introduced and the industry is monitored and policed, by an independent body.

Because the law will say they need to be responsible and each dog will have a paper trail. But how will that stop owners opting to have the dog killed ? Because the law could state that they need to rehome their dog rather than op to euth their dog. I'm not naive enough to believe that all will adhere to the law but if they realise that there are severe consequences that will be dished out .i.e. if it costs a lot more to not obey the law than to foot the bill of looking after that dog until it is rehomed and the chances of them being monitored and caught are also in place, it will stop the majority.

Because the law will say they need to be responsible and each dog will have a paper trail.