m-j

I think this is probably the reason why the lay person would choose these trainers. I went to an advertisng seminar a few years ago and one of the things I can remember from it was if you want to help your business grow don't just advertise, get in people's faces. This is one thing that both of these "business'" do. If you keep a high profile even those that don't need you at that moment will remember you when they do.

I wonder if movement is the only thing that stimulates true prey drive. At work if I have a dog that goes ho hum with the toy I bring out the fox or rabbit skins do exactly the same things and watch those doggies chase particually with the fox. Those that do chase go ballistic with the skins. Yes had I seen your previous post I would have strongly advised against it, even if you have total control of the game, the instinct to chase a living thing that may have laid dorment for even years can be awakened. Ths is probably a difficult question but can you give an estimate on how many trials for this to be achieved, on average?

The birds of prey are my favourites along with parrots. The logbook you need to sign, is that online or with the cache? If it is with the cache, the paper may be a reasonably consistant odour to train the dog to??

From browsing the geocaching forums, I think that is what most of the dogs are scenting. There is no shortage of caches out there, even in unpopulated areas, so you could pick and choose ones that had been more recently found by others if that was your aim, I think that would be much easier to train for too. Some of the dogs seem to be figuring it out on their own, without any training. Check it out, m-j, I think you'd enjoy. Go to www.geocaching.com and put your postcode in the search box on the main page. Then when you get the list of caches, click on "view in Google Maps" for a visual representation. It's a real eye-opener. The thing that really turned me off tracking with dogs was meeting up regularly with others to lay and age tracks. I do lots of stuff with my dogs, but I do it on my time, whenever I get the chance. I can see this being something that I can just fit in to my schedule, involve my family and my dogs, and we all get something out of it. I think you may have started something , there are heaps around here. We'll dust off the GPS's and will probably be off hunting for the one in our tiny one horse town on the w/e.

Gee that sounds like fun!! My son and I occasionally used to mark a spot with our GPS usually when out walking the dogs and then try to find the same spot later on and see what's changed (vegetation etc) . I wonder if having different (to yours) residual human scent on them may be of benefit as it could possibly be a concommitant odour with some of the caches??

She could be a Grey (not saying I think she is) but I have seen so much size and shape variation in the breed (racing dogs) that she could be. She looks just like quite a few we've have had at the kennels. She is very pretty though.

Yes I think Greys are very clever. They are good at problem solving I have found. In the morning when letting them out of their kennels I don't let them out until all four are on the floor. Most work it out within minutes, if that, which isn't bad considering they are beside themselves to get out as they know they are going to have a run and the boss will let them out if they are jumping up. When starting training them though they really need to know there is something great in it for them, or you loose them very quickly. Once you get over the sit hurdle they learn things very quickly.

In a way I see teaching a dog commands and expecting them to be obeyed as a bit anthropomorphic. I can't think of any time where dogs actively teach each other to do things, just not to do things. The exeption to this is co-operative hunting, I don't know much about this but I do wonder if they're reading the play and reacting accordingly as with model rival training. Please don't get me wrong I do know why we do this and it is necessary as it makes life easier, but we are treating them like we treat humans not as dogs treat each other.

Perhaps a young dog isn't for you but an older dog/broody may be ok. Could you put up a temporary fence across the front (star pickets and ringlock) as greys aren't renowned for jumping.

Wow, I guess I don't know any proper trainers, then, since I don't think I know any trainers who would advise that. You probably don't. What would your trainer advise distract the dog with a cookie When a dog does something it is not supposed to do a correction is needed pretty simple really. I told the OP to get advise from a good trainer and not to attempt the above alone. It was only given as an example of what has worked for me and to back it up I put in a link from the leerburg website that states something similar. The method does work I have used it on all my dogs when I have had small children. Time to start treating dogs like dogs people all this over complicating things is really a joke. Dog training in the last 15 years has gone to pieces. My opinion is you can not train a dog properly without negative reinforcement. If somebody has a different opinion they are welcome to it and I respect it. In my experience the results from positive reinforcement training only may be similar but what happens if the distraction is greater then the food reward the whole process goes to pieces. I am really getting sick of this site people ask for advise and then you get shot down with stupid comments. If some body posted a positive only method of dealing with the problem I would not shoot the poster down with negative comments I would still offer my own advise and let the OP choose what type of trainer they would go to for help. We are all different and we all have different methods of training the OP sounds smart enough to know to contact a professional. I think she is only looking for differences of opinion not a problem solve over the internet. *sigh* For all your years of apparent experience, to me it appears that you really don't understand the concept of positive reinforcement training. Your advise with the right dog, in the right situation, is downright dangerous.

A girlfriend of mine owns a hotel, her dog a mastiff x is a social butterfly and he is friends with everyone greets them with a wagging tail and soliciting of pats, strangers and regular customers alike but if someone comes out of trading hours that isn't in the delivery vehicles, which he knows, he is a completely different dog unless he knows them well.

Just a suggestion if you have trouble fading the food, once you get the scatch response with the tea bag/s and food, and you go onto two + containers I would put food in the other container/s as well and mark when he scratches the tea bag container, so that he learns it is the tea bag he is looking for not the food, then ditch the food. Try to get about an 85% + correct response rate before moving on to the next stage. Assuming he isn't scratching and being rewarded with the food he has scratched for I would also make the food you are rewarding him with more high powered than the food he is scratching for unless it is too distracting for him. The more scent you can have initially the better. Before you send him looking in a large search area I would be inclined to get the whole response correct and to search on cue first. Hope this makes sense, as I said just suggestions.

How do you do that? Hypnosis? Subliminal cassettes played through speakers under their pillows as they sleep? :D

How do you do that?

Evacuation plans are good and a must but you may not always be able to execute them. I was put in this situation last year, long story short the fire was moving very fast (The fire started 13 kms away and in around 15 mins it had reached us) I wasn't home when it started so had to travel home, I managed to get one dog in the car before the police advised me to go leave the dogs as the fire was just a km away. If I hadn't of had my son with me I would have put the rest (6 dogs) in the car, I had to make that decision then and there, which was the hardest I've ever had to make. Prior to that experience I would have said I wouldn't leave them and if my son wasn't there I don't think I would have, but as two houses (only one up from us)were well and truely alight about 5 mins later ( I found out later)I may not have got out. I was lucky in that we have 3/4 of acre which was all dirt, I'm guessing that along with the fireys saved them. We got our phone warnings about 3 hrs later.

Like when I was reading the newspaper and this guy had been busted with a number of dope plants and his reason for having so many was that he was a geneticist and was developing a "strain" , it didn't work

Hi Merry Christmas. Ahhh they're so cute I so sorry to hear about Tobias but the last part of his life was good and you guys did the best for him you could. cheers M-J

Yes they aren't easy reading, the first time I read them I had a dictionary and a veterinary dictionary with me also. I do feel that some parts of the books could have been simplified without loosing much of the content. This is not to say they aren't good books and are worth the struggle to get through and try to understand them. I refer back to them along with other books I have, when I want to confirm a thought or a training program. I have often thought I would love a few of my books to be audio books so I could just lay back relax and listen.

Darn it, why can I NEVER remember to do this when actually in a situation where it probably would have worked! Had a treat bag full of treats too. Situtation arose about 15 minutes ago Sorry, completely OT. I've never thought of doing this! Not sure why as I always have treats! Thanks I will remember this one This is one reason why I love chicken chunkers, they smell strong, they are largish and white so therefore easily seen in grass, plus they are oval and sometimes the movement of them rolling catches the dogs attention. Many dogs that are approaching your dog don't get that you are throwing treats out for them, having the appealing scent and visibility helps with them learning this. Plus being able to see them easily enables you to spread the handful of food further so therefore takes the dog longer to get them all. The only thing with this is you need to make sure you can go somewhere where the dog can't follow you to because it is probable that they will. I have had put myself in someone's front yard and then had to explain what I was doing to a very nice stranger who probably thought I was a complete nutter but it prevented my dog from nailing the other very persistant dog and my training didn't get completely undone. Another altenative is get in your car and drive to somewhere quiet. I have to do this to do the opposite, to socialise my dogs to urban streets. It is a pain but worth it.

Oh of course Thanks Kelpie-i.

What are these? How does an owner determine the difference?

I think this could work, if distributed in the right places, vets, pet shops, breeders perhaps for a start?? And maybe people leaving obedience schools - ask them if they're coming back next term, and if not, why not (i.e., did they achieve what they wanted to achieve, or just give up, and if so why?) That would seem like the obvious thing to do, but giving the results to a body that didn't provide the service will give you a more truthful response I think. I did a survey for the first several yrs when running my own dog training school, in which i asked for constructive criticism so I could improve my classes. Even though the surveys were anonymous I only got one negative response, as much as I would like to think I made everyone perfectly happy I don't believe it, maybe they were scared of me More a case of not wanting to upset/disappoint me I think?? I've actually made some good friends that I originally met as clients.

Oops I ahve been guilty of saying both of those things , but diplomatically and for good reason. I have used the not so easy dogs as a learning curve for not only the owners but the others in the class and made them sympathetic for both the dog and owner, obviously with the owners permission. The other owners I feel benefit from this when they see the improvement in the dog's behaviour. I think this could work, if distributed in the right places, vets, pet shops, breeders perhaps for a start?? Can't speak for others but I just take what comes, mainly from the vets, most of those being people with dogs with behaviour problems. I actually redirect people who want obedience classes to the local dog club, which I also instruct at. They cater for that, are closer to most of the people who contact me and as I mentioned I actually don't really enjoy the obedience as much. Not really as I have a set price. I am lucker than some as I use my own property and don't employ anyone, so my overheads aren't as steep.

People who come to training are motivated initially I have often wondered what makes them stop. Though asking this question to some people (not a large enough number to say unequivocally this is the reason) motivation I have found to be the biggest reason for people not going to training, not that they don't want to train their dog or are lazy but as has been mentioned distance, other just as important committments and little time to do both for as an ongoing committment, dislike of training methods, changing shifts, boredom, feeling that they don't need what is being offered in classes, these have not only been mentioned here but also by people I know. I agree this with most breeds, not just Greys, but with any breed there are exceptions of course. I feel education to the fact that ongoing manners training/socialising and responsible dog ownership are essential, preferably before they get their pup may help. How this can be done I don't know, school programs, the RSPCA mentioning this in an ad, as they seem to be the only body that can afford them and by the general public they are respected, plus it will also help their cause.

This is why I used to run what I called socialising classes, where the only training that was done was sit or drop stay, heeling and being handled. This was then followed by a walk and then after the walk an informal "chat" about management and anything the people wanted to know. There were no grades and the aim was to make people aware of their and their dogs and other dogs ability, limitations and nature and how to deal with these things realistically. There was no pressure to practise but be aware that if you don't, you need to be responsible and manage your dog appropriately. I found alot of people would come with aspirations of having a very obedient dog but when they realise that it can be alot of work and commitment they give up, letting these people realise that the dog just needs to be social I felt took the pressure off the owners thinking they had to have an obedient dog that knows lots of things and the shame that goes with a dog that isn't. The exercises I conducted in the short training session generalised those two cues so they could be used in real life situations. I also felt it took pressure off the dogs. I found they were generally what people were more interested in and would keep coming back to rather than formal obedience and as an instructor I found them more interesting to run although very time consuming (some sessions would last up to 3 hrs), and due to work commitments I stopped them. Even with the people that didn't train much, I could see the dogs improving just with ongoing "exposure". I find obedience very boring these days which is why I started these classes and as an instructor it doesn't thrill me to teach people stuff you can see they really don't want and in some cases need to know. cheers M-J