m-j

Yes I am, looking forward to it. I'm not taking a dog but I'm on the registration table. Awwww!! That will foil our kidnapping plans. Hope you have a good weekend.

Sorry raineth it was said with toungue in cheek I should have mentioned that. I think only someone threatened with something more scarey than the original fear would actually follow the therapist toward the source of the fear, even if the threat was called a mild distraction by someone else not on the receiving end. The kick CM gives I think is as Joe says a conditioned reinforcer or it actually does hurt or as Corvus says the dog is living in the now (if I was fearful of something I wouldn't want to take my eyes off it either i.e. a rearing head flattened snake and if someone tried to distract me away from it I would get cranky), whatever, certainly not what I would recommend doing or do myself either.

Oh ok I'll come with you as you have just distracted me and it has made me realise my fear is irrational

I thoroughly recommend SARDA, if SAR is what you are interested in. If that is not what you are after there is also Craig Murray, not sure exactly where he is situated though, near Brisbane somewhere. I don't have a link but if you google Craig Murray you will find his web site.

Ouch!

Is he offering any sort of other behaviour/s? Do you think he could possibly be confused as to what you want as he is used to you luring him to walk backwards?

I use this anology along with others, to explain some of the basic terminology in my classes all the time.

She specialises in providing evidence that supports or don't support many of the commonly accepted greyhound raising methods. Awesome, thank you.

oops double post

It would if you wanted to write on something that a pen would work on i.e. not on a black board or black pen on black paper. I imagine if you wanted to write something in a gravity free environment, your behaviour and emotions would be different if using a pen, to using a pencil

Thanks, I've had a quick look but couldn't find what I was looking for. I was hoping you were talking about studies pertaining to the raising of racing Greyhounds Some of the popular beliefs held by others concerning the raising of the Greys don't all sit well with me, due to my experiences with the many pups we have raised to adults and was looking for scientific evidence to hopefully support my beliefs. Thanks Corvus I do have Genetics and the Social Behaviour of the Dog but due to time limitations haven't finished reading it and it has been a very long time between "reads" so I don't really remember much from it. I bought it and several other books a couple of years ago all of which have really only been glanced through *sigh*, one day :D.

Can you tell where I can access these studies, please?

This is true, but recently we sent off some dogs that hadn't had early handling and they were very nervy dogs. The first time they were on the track they didn't stretch out, the breaker said these dogs have been raised in a matchbox (which they hadn't), boss asked me if I had noticed that their action was bad, I hadn't so I said I wouldn't mind betting they were worried and being cautious give them another chance, they did, dogs stretched out as they were a bit more confident and one is actually very good. Yes there was a mating done several years ago which produced 5 top winning dogs and sires. Apparently the mating was repeated 6 times which produced nothing out of the ordinary.

I would have cars that were new to me. I would be happy to drive them home in my new car/ their ex car:) I agree with too much theory and people shut down. I have found they don't really want to know the why, just the how. I do briefly go over the why in laymans terms if I think it is necessary but not too much. I tell them knowing this stuff this will help if this happens or if you want to teach something else that I don't cover Behaviour problems that's another story. If the exercise is being achieved I don't have an issue, unless I can see problems that may crop up with future training or learning is being made difficult for the dog.

I like them to be able to explain the difference between operant and classical conditioning, using the Rescorla-Wagner model and Herrnstein's Matching Law to illustrate the difference. If they can do that, I let them have their car keys back. Failing that, if they can show me they know when to click and treat, and how to satisfy themselves that the response is actually increasing and how to back up if it isn't, I'm happy. Good question, btw, worth thinking about. :rolleyes: Good idea I would like a new car, cept ma math is worst than ma ingleesh.

Just out of curiousity, what do trainers/instructors consider to be the appropriate theories to pass on to owners looking for basic obedience?

LL The kennel I work at is a rearing / spelling kennel I actually don't have much to do with the dogs that are spelling at our kennels but they are reserved until they know you. I believe moreso than other dogs seem to be (generally) in a strange place with nothing familiar around them. Maybe they are just becoming more highly strung

I have a friend who has been trialling at all levels, wins the ring fairly consistantly (very rarely she doesn't), with many dogs for over 40 yrs and she always rewards. Dogs aren't stupid there needs to be something in it for them. If they are working just to avoid a correction after a period of time (when their conditioning becomes extinct) they can become very unreliable when the means for correcting is removed i.e. the lead or correction collar.

I do agree with what you are saying but not all dogs that are bred for for a purpose are bred for their nerve. One example is Greyhounds, all they really need to have is good prey drive and be fast. I do know that having weak nerves with no nurturing can really put them at a huge disadvantage during their training. At least if they have had some nurturing/experiences early in their life, that and their drive can pull them through what can be a difficult and is a very different experience from how they are generally raised.

Put in a tall bird feeder/bird bath/bird friendly trees to attract birds.

Thanks KS that is an interesting article. I did hear that it was important not to do it any longer than recommended. I know from handling the pups at work how important early handling is though, the litters that have been handled settle in to their new life with us and if neccessary bounceback so much better. That's basically what I guessed too and I imagine over stressing them at that stage of their life could have lifelong effects.

KC Blue where did you get your sighthound from and what age did you get him/her from?

This was mentioned in another thread and I have heard if the pups are over stimulated the effects are detrimental to them, but I have never heard in what way, just wondering if anyone can tell me. cheers M-J

The short answer is a huge reinforcement history. Exposure to the situation that you want them to perform in without asking them to do anything (no pressure) prior to wanting them to work so the dog goes ho hum this is now not that interesting. At home keep your training sessions very short, finish well before the dog wants to. Generalise the behaviour in less distracting environments, starting with very unstimulating environment gradually building on the distraction levels. When you take the dog to the new environment ask for one simple well known cue and leave it at that, next time ask for two and so on. If you are using food make sure the dog is hungry when you start training every time i.e just before it has it's meal. If you are using a game make sure the dog isn't tired. If you go to do a training session and you feel the dog won't respond don't ask it to do anything. This how I start my Greys (ex racers that don't have a great deal of exposure to life outside the racing environment and they really haven't been asked to do anything that isn't instinctive or can't be managed) what I have found is after a while they are willing to work for longer and even learn someting new in a distracting environment. HTH cheers M-J

A quick answer..... From watching the many packs of dogs (generally littermates) at work that have all been raised the same way with each other, I would say nature plays a huge part in how dogs tolerate rude or otherwise dogs (non pack members), but experience certainly also has some bearing on their reactions to certain behaviour from other dogs. A dog having a "win" that previously wasn't confident in a situation can certainly "change" that dog in that situation, as can getting a fright.