m-j

The majority of dogs that come to us you can't get near once they have been released into the runs. People, collars and leads are seen as an adversive, well and truely, until they learn otherwise.

Thanks for your replies and the concern you have for the dogs. Yes my dogs did see it as a very mild adversive which is why I wanted to do the experiment in the first place just to see how much it impacts on learning, compared with a non adversive stimulus. I did know that adversives impact on learning but I want a time/trial rate comparison, with a simple behaviour, given by only one handler to narrow the variables. Oops I hadn't thought of ethics (as it seemed to be seen by my dogs as a very mild adversive, slight ear flick, slight white of eye showing briefly, normal training for the dogs at the kannels brings much more stress) I will reduce the amount of dogs I test. The boss has his dogs there and he is more than happy for me to do it with them as he knows I would never do anything to hurt or terrify them. If the dog appears concerned obviously I wouldn't continue with that dog. The dogs are not pets, the kennels is a rearing and spelling kennel for Greys so none of them have had experience with clickers or any type of conditioned reinforcer as the majority have needed to learn to take food from my hand and I haven't used a conditioned reinforcer with them. I also work at a boarding kennel and I wouldnt even consider doing this with those dogs as they are already in various states of stress due to the fact they aren't in their normal environment, whereas with the Greys the huge runs (200mx30m) they in is their home and they know me well. Just as I wouldn't do it with any new arrivals at the Greyhound kennels for the same reason. I did have a quick search on google scholar but couldn't find anything telling me what I want to know, I will have a better look tonight. Thanks.

Hi The other day I was fiddling around with a vibrating collar and desided to condition my 5 dogs to respond to the vibration the same way a clicker/marker word is charged. I was very surprised at how long it took them to form the association, compared to a word or the clicker. When they did the respond it wasn't quite the same, they didnt look at me with the bright eyed, prick eared confidence that they give with a clicker or a word. This has me intrigued so I have decided to go to the kennels I work at and test it on the dogs there (60 dogs with no food training experience) and actually see how many trials it takes the dogs to form the association. So my question is how would be the best way to set this up, my thoughts are a control group forming an association with a clicker, group 2 - form an association with the vibration and maybe group 3 - form an association with a clicker, then form an association between clicker and vibration. If anyone has a better ideas on how to conduct this experiment I would be interested to hear about them.

Just out of curiosity for those who think that calmfood throwing strategy is a load of rubbish what would you do in the event of an attack?

That poor girl and her dog. Her life is being put on hold and those responsible seem to be getting away with it. While agree that your chances are probably slim in stopping a serious dog by adopting the quiet, calm body language, highly desirable food tossing stategy, running, screaming and hitting are definately only going to fuel it. This reminds my of the episode of Myth Busters where they tested the food throwing strategy with trained guard dogs several of them did actually leave the attack to get the raw steak (not a highly desirable food).

You can look at your dog with your eyes but actually following your dog with your head moving it down as the dog gets closer was with this judge was a no no. Which at the time with the method that was used then, could have been a signal to your dog you are watching ready to nail him if he makes a mistake.

Do you always look at your dog when she comes in? I got pinged 2 points on a recall for that. The hands didn't matter. :laugh: To be fair to the judge, the trial was way back when nobody used food or a positive motivator to make the dog work so hands in that position weren't as relevent as they would be today. If you do look at your dog as she is coming in may have some relevence to the straight front, or maybe not, this is where filming yourself is good. I thought that was the case, thanks Kavik

That's a good idea as sitting on a high chair and fading that position to a stand seems like it would be easier than fading from a sit to a stand. The training picture isn't changing as drastically. I teach this by luring and when I give the recall hand signal I return my hands to the position in front where the dog got the treat from in the initial stage of training. Not sure if that is allowed these days tho

That is a really good way to get the message across.

Debbie Calnon and Gabrielle Carter come up here from Melbourne, but I don't know of any that work here. thanks for the info m-j Not a problem

Debbie Calnon and Gabrielle Carter come up here from Melbourne, but I don't know of any that work here.

yes I'll second this. They are excellent I agree. In Albury I find the Family Vet Centre very good. They also refer to Wagga CSU if they need to.

Many police dogs I have seen in real life or on TV shows do not show amazing training standards. For example many of them pull on the lead to the extent that the handler has to use his full strength to keep the dog around. So Koehler or not, this argument is not very strong. I have also seen it usually when they know they are about to go to work, maybe there is a reason for this. I would imagine if standing there quietly or LLW was beneficial to their job it would be taught, it's not like these things are hard to teach.

It is about the dog's performance anywhere, regardless. Your dogs are trained to give a 'performance' in the ring, Koehler trained dogs are not. There are different standards at work here. You seem to only be able to comprehend or appreciate one particular standard. I don't agree with this. I believe if you give the dog a cue to a behaviour that has been generalised, it should perform it to the standard I have set be it in real life or in the trial ring. "Sit" in either method means put your butt on the ground, the difference in the methods is how that is communicated to the dog, the training process. The standard of compliance you achieve with either method is your choice, it's got absolutely nothing to do with the method as I believe you can get consistant reliability using methods other than Koehler. If Koehler methods are so good the people who train service dogs would still be using them as their job is about saving human lives, keeping our country free from pests, not ribbons or the satisfaction of having a well trainind dog.

I got tired of replacing bags and shade cloth on the trampoline beds so I got some hay bailing twine and wove a mat onto them, so far they have lasted for about 10 years and quite a few dogs. I put a piece of carpet over the bed to make it a bit softer to lie on. I used the used twine so it cost me a little bit of time and about $2 for the carpet as I used off cuts from the carpet store.

Thank you for your replies and support Yes it is interesting watching him try to go to the toilet, but he is getting there. I think I'm more worried than he is :rolleyes:

Hi On Tuesday my poor boy Boof has had to have his left front leg amputated as he smashed his shoulder very badly while doing zoomies, reconstruction was not an option. Now I'm wondering are there supplements I can give him to help his right leg cope better with the extra strain. cheers M-J

This is how I see the majority of Greys I work with. Only fools rush in Why they are like this, dunno. A quick guess off the top of my head. They don't have a powerful bite or weight so maybe they see their first line of defence being in their speed as opposed to their strength. If that is the case getting close to an unknown situation and possible conflict without sussing it out first could take away the flight option.

Do you have a link to the website, I'm interested in attending the Shep rally but it didn't seem to be getting a huge response and unfortunately Melbourne is just too far away as I am working that night.

The peeing on other people you don't like etc can't really comment on The paw licking to me is a sign of anxiety especially if it startd at a time when you started feeling anxious (a displacement behaviour rather than copy cat) and again as others have said it can become obssessive if the reason for the behaviour can't be sorted, and as others have said a behaviourist probably would be a good idea. When my Dobe came to me he was a flank licker and I just made his life more structured, he had had 6 homes in 11 months, so it was pretty easy to fix. Teaching him to lie on a mat and periodically rewarding him for doing so or be in a crate when these people are present ( as others have mentioned counterconditioning, giving the dog an alternative behaviour and making that alternative behaviour more rewarding than what he would normally do)I think is a good start. Just thoughts. I liked this, very possible if he is a real opportunist and has had success previously.

I agree, just as humans can react totally out of character in strange and daunting situations, so may dogs.

Donatella what does your dog do when she gets hold of her toy? Has playing with her toy encouraged her to be aggressive and want to fight other dogs?

Which brings me back to my original statement that they shouldn't come with a no harm done status. As should other pieces of equipment, like many others I'm not a fan of head collars for potential of misuse and harm to the dog but they are not the tool this thread is about. Dear MJ You are right no matter what Mr K9 saying the prong can start off handler aggression in the wrong dogs it happens often and I thank you on your posting for readers on the board to know this fact. Joe Thanks Joe

Which brings me back to my original statement that they shouldn't come with a no harm done status. As should other pieces of equipment, like many others I'm not a fan of head collars for potential of misuse and harm to the dog but they are not the tool this thread is about.

Yes as the tool and handlers go hand in hand. It is futile putting prong on the dog without the handler making it do it's job. As you said trainers make mistakes, even experienced ones, and with the right dog this can dangerous for whatever the dog associates the correction with. If the tug and the food mistakes resulted in 2 out 8 dogs becoming aggressive yes I would be very dubious. I have never seen that ratio applied to any other tool. The dog coming back at me with a harness on was 1 in many many many dogs, with factors that increased the liklihood of that happening that weren't present in the prong situations.