eschlachter

The only thing an ANKC recognised breed or dog of the breed which is ANKC registered has is that it is recognised by one group - the ANKC . To presume that this is the only group that is able to recognise a breed or register the ancestry of a dog is due to the fact that you are are of the belief that if its not recognised by this group it isn't counted. For example in the states the AKC do not recognise the Maremma as a recognise breed - to assume that maremma in the states are not recognised as a breed by lots of other groups and lots of other people would be ridiculous. Just because you and some others have certain criteria to recognise something as a purebred - whether it is recognised as a breed and registered on THEIR registry - only means it fits your criteria and its how YOU recognise it as a purebred. Lots of others especially those who belong to that group or who register dogs with them or who own dogs which are registered with them agree with you doesn't make it a done deal that this is how everyone should think. Well, Steve, I have no issue with the points you raise- you have your opinion, to which you're absolutely entitled, and I have mine. May I just make this point though- the dogzonline forum rules state (and I quote) that 'This site was created for pure bred dog discussion (ANKC recognised breeds) The primary purpose of this forum is to promote and discuss pure bred dogs (as recognised by the ANKC) so we ask you respect our aim when visiting here.' I think that my view, when viewed in the context of this forum, has some merit.

To clarify- It's not the dogs themselves I object to (TBH I am yet to meet a dog I didn't love, and if we never made new breeds life would be a) very boring and b) would mean many wonderful breeds we have today wouldn't exist). It's the thinking/saying/selling them as they're something they aren't that I find frustrating. Obviously for those breeding Aussie Bulldogs with the specific intention of creating a new breed, that's awesome ( :) )-and from what I can glean from the comment, those puppies wouldn't be sold as anything other than, 'these are great dogs, we're doing our best to create a new breed that's recognised by the ANKC, not there yet but please if you breed from your dog we'd appreciate it if you used another 'Aussie' with one of our club pedigrees that we can trace so it could be a part of our registry!'. There's no (I assume, lol!) pretending that they are an ANKC recognised breed of dog. I only mentioned them because it's striking how many people think that they are (or don't know the difference between what ANKC registered and 'ABC' registered means). In relation to the words 'pedigree' and 'purebred'- these terms have no legal definition or meaning within ANKC rules, and they have no real formal definition either. In the example I gave (and as someone has already pointed out) the 'Labrador' couldn't be either a purebred or a pedigree dog- regardless of the fact that it looks and behaves a great deal like a Lab. The use of those words, both by those who know that they mean nothing and those who think they have some sort of meaning, are a large part of what adds to the confusion. You can't (actually, you shouldn't say, rather than can't, as many do!) say a dog is 'purebred' unless you know it is- and you don't know it is, unless you have a formal record of its parents, and the parents' parents, ect ect. A dog described as 'pedigree' should have an ANKC pedigree; and any purebred dog should have the same- otherwise, neither word should be used to describe the dog. All power to those who are committed to creating new dog breeds, it isn't my intention at all to argue against that idea. Provided there's no confusing innocent peeps along the way :p

Very sterile advice from them. Practical but entirely tactless. How awful for her. Agreed how hard it is to say sorry we can't !!!! Exactly. I really struggle to understand why people can't be sensitive and appreciative of a situation and nice, when it's so easy to do- why be harsh? Anyway to the purebred dog frustrations argument. What annoys me about the whole thing is people calling a spade a shovel, when it's clearly a spade. Or, why pretend/think/tell others/mistakenly believe that your '-oodle' is a purebred dog, when it isn't. Don't get me wrong I love bitsa's- I own one, my precious kelpie x, Mr Rexie- but he isn't anything other than a kelpie cross staffie! And no one could convince me he's a special kind of Kel-ord that should be left entire and then produce a new generation of unique, special Kel-ords (btw lol this was the best name combo I could think of quickly :) ) Same deal with 'oh this is my purebred Labrador (for eg)'. Me (usually) oh, who bred him? And you get the breeder's first name and where they're from, rather than a kennel name... Me: oh, that's nice. *general question re papers/breeder's prefix which results in a blank stare*. And then confusion about why my dog has 'papers' and theirs doesn't/can't have them. That's not really so annoying, as it's a result not of willful blindness, but ignorance and misinformation- it's the pretence that a dog is something it isn't that really irritates me. And people I know and like a lot, fall for it (Aussie bulldogs are another classic example along the Bull Arab line). My rant over now! :laugh:

Ahh SG maybe not then- Riv is a girl. Nice to know there are few young IS around the area though, they're few and far between- which is silly- as Steph M and I know, Setters are just brilliant dogs! Something about their attitude to life is just infectious :D

We had an English Setter who lived until a few months ago and I've never met a dog with less road sense! Despite being asked to sit at roadsides from 6 months old he never just did it without prompting in all of his almost 15 years. He would gaily barge onto the road and have to be dragged back. The most amazing dog in all other respects but a dummy on corners. I'd love an Irish one day though.... It's all you can really do. Amazing people think your PB is less healthy because you know the lineage? What the?! How does that even compute? That's my polite roundabout way of saying they usually think purebred dogs are 'inbred'. In my experience there seems to be no consideration of the fact that knowing what genes you're combining will usually (not always, of course) lead to a better (or at least predictable) outcome, as oppose to mixing two gene pools where you don't have the first idea what the outcome will be! Setters are a classic when it comes to roads :) River I'm sure thinks, Oh! Big grey stretch of stuff to smell! Whats that thing? A car? Is there food coming in my direction, I hope so? THERE'S POSSIBLY A CAT IN A THAT BUSH. QUICK. I must run across there as fast as I can! :laugh: Gotta love them though.

She is gorgeous! Lol :laugh: I have a feeling SG I have met you in real life... :D I could be wrong though! All young Setters are gorgeous. And I agree with your vent SG! Setters (well, any dog, really) and the road do not mix well. People tend to assume that because a dog isn't near a gate, it has no interest in escaping... Certainly not true for many dogs and a very silly thing to assume. I agree with the frustration levels re people's comments on 'purebred' spoodles and other crosses. It's pretty disheartening to hear the same 'hybrid/crossbred vigour' argument regularly, sometimes directed at my dogs (like they're not quite as healthy, because I know who their parents are, and their parents' parents...). Usually from people who couldn't explain the first thing about how genes work. It's ok though. I've decided it's my mission to re-educate where I can (in the nicest possible way!) :D

:laugh: :laugh: Dougal Cat opened the oven door the other day - and Stan immediately popped in to my mind!!! LOL Stan is so awesome :) Shouldn't ever spend time swapping ideas with my Ridgy though- she can (and does) open most of the doors in our house (including the front door). A few weeks ago I let her out for a pee- it was raining outside, which she hates- so she gave me a big *sideye*, jumped off the side of the verandah, and walked around the front (all undercover, carport area) opened the front door (!) let herself back in, and jumped on the couch with a big smile. No pee. No rain on my back, thanks Mum! :) Was pretty funny. She is also a dedicated countertop cruiser and bin opener. I'm just in the habit now of ensuring everything is out of her reach if I'm leaving the kids inside (they are outside usually during the day).

I was standing in my front yard last week, playing with the dogs, when a random lady walked past with her (hugely fat) Cavalier. Fat Cav lady: 'Your dog is so skinny!' (referring to my I- Setter- she's not.) Me: *stunned silence* Fat Cav lady: (getting louder, thinks I may be deaf)) She's far too thin!! *shakes head at me and waggles finger* Me: *more stunned silence*. Fat Cav lady: Continues with her slow stroll down the street. After a minute of digesting what had just happened, I was so tempted to go running down the street yelling, 'your dog is morbidly obese!! Do you understand you're killing it with food! It was the fattest dog I'd seen in a while, if you poked your index finger into it's side (not that you would of course, metaphorically) you'd be feeling flubber the whole length of your finger, if that makes sense. Still so cross about it though I just can't stand it when someone, who (I assume) wouldn't even be able to tell me what breed Riv is, can stand there and accuse me of underfeeding my beautiful, healthy dog. She has a perfect rib cover (actually you can't even feel her ribs unless you press in, so she's probably a bit over-fed if anything!) Extremely frustrating.

I don't think you're the only one that thinks like that Dave :D Anyway, I took a look around my office this morning and realised that only two (of eleven people) don't have a dog/s, and also that the office really reflects the kind of dogs we have in our area- so here goes (names have been changed lol): Kirst- has George, a Staffy, desexed, but with main reg papers; Manda- no dog! Lib- with her partner has a working Kelpie stud; they breed really lovely working dogs. Also Lib has a 'purebred' Bull-arab, Ellie, who's her own dog (the Kelpies are very much outside dogs). Kas- An oodle called Lottie, desexed poodle x spaniel. Kas did have a beautiful Rough Collie (former show dog, retired when desexed) but she died about 3 years ago. Marg- No dog, is a crazy cat lady :D Bel- Has five dogs, four of which do hunt on weekends but are also pets-a Staghound x; Baxter, a Bull-arab (and a son of Ellie, above); a mastiff mix (huge); and two whippets (BYB). Tars- Has Gus, a BYB staffie cross; Hol- on a farm, has no house dogs but three working Kelpies who live outside; Me- three dogs, Riva the Irish Setter and Leia the Ridgy (both on main papers and shown) and Rex, the Kelpie x Staffy Mars- Patch the 'mini foxie' Jo- Border Collie (BYB) A big mix! Not many main-reg dogs around though, and I keep an eye out for them. One thing that did strike me about my list is that there are no labs there, but there are quite a few around here.

It does say a lot, in few words! But the topic was locked before I could post it :)

Thank you for posting the results! Can't wait to hear group 3 we have our fingers and paws crossed for the setters here :)

My OH thinks that it's not cold till it's -5 INside, so we have a very repetitive argument about what a good sleeping temperature is! I usually win (lol) but the coats have made such a difference- if someone had told me that last winter, I would've said hmm, not cold enough in my house to make a difference- but this year I experimented, and was very surprised. Particularly when the 'literature' makes the assumption that all Ridgys are hardy, and can deal well with temps from 0-35. They can, but not without an impact on overall condition... :)

Have to agree with Satin Balls- worked like a charm, when I was trying to put weight on my Ridgy. Peanut butter, she just loves :) Would add one more thing- what I think has made a difference this winter, is keeping the Ridgy 'coat on' nearly all winter. For the last year I thought that she was fine, inside our house all the time really, temp would get to the lowest I suppose about 10 deg. at night inside. This year (and winter has been really mild for us) she has PJ's on every night/day, and the only time she goes 'nudie' outside is if we're walking/off leash exercising. She has eaten less, and maintained her weight (even putting on a little weight) easily. It's something that is accepted science with horses (and sheep) and I'd say it applies to dogs too. A smaller dog (Ridgys= greater coat surface area/body mass= better able to regulate body heat) is less able to control heat loss and therefore burns more energy to keep warm. Please note!! I'm in no way suggesting that I think your dog's chilly, or that you're not keeping him warm enough- just that, like mine, sometimes they use valuable calories in winter keeping warm (without us knowing, ie no shaking or anything), and therefore their energy needs increase :) It's something I'm only really just realizing, and (I think) it can have a big effect on body condition.

Ahh you found me out- yes, I've been trying to exercise everyone at once! :) Not always the best thing, even if it's the most practical. And I'm hopeless, I hate leaving one or two at home whilst the others get to keep walking or playing. Will up the education and see how much brain training tires her out. Have to add though- that's not really the question I asked- I'm not actually looking for 'other' ways to tire her out. I was wondering how much walking would be too much walking for a dog of her age (regardless of how tired it makes her). Does anyone know/has heard of- even anecdotally- of a dog that has suffered damaged joints or any other form of skeletal damage as a direct consequence of exercise (and I mean, completely independent of diet or any genetic condition)? It's only that I have read about it- online- but I'm a bit of a skeptic, and would like to hear what others' experiences have been. I completely accept the advice above, absolutely, but I'm still just a bit curious to know whether the information online is supported by any evidence from dog owners/vets themselves?

Oh lol I did make it sound like exhausting her was my main aim- poor little baby setter! It's ok, she's pretty good at home really. She spends her day playing with the other dogs (very enthusiastically) bar the time she's out walking/ going to the park, playing with her (numerous) toys and bones, and sleeping, occasionally, of course! The main aim (together with the other benefits from exercise) is that both girls are show dogs, and particularly with the Ridgy, need to be in really good physical condition. I don't like seeing 'marshmallow' dogs going round the ring :) You can look at a Ridgy, with their thin skin, and see straight away how fit/muscly they are. Walking is the best thing (I reckon) to build up muscle, particularity in their hindquarters. You can really see the difference over a few weeks of regular walking- it doesn't worry me if they get fitter and fitter, that's kinda what I'm hoping will happen :D Just didn't want to over-do it with the baby.

Hi Guys, I have an Irish setter, who will be 7 months old tomorrow. I also have a 2yr old Ridgy. I was really, really careful with the Ridgy, as she matured, with how much exercise she received as I was concerned about damaging her growing joints. She has matured to be 36kgs and has lovely strong legs, with no deformities or issues at all. I did nearly 100% off-leash exercise with her, on grass and with swimming, chasing a ball/my other dog thrown in as well- on average for 30mins each day from 5-6 months old (some days double that, ie going to the park twice a day, maybe twice a week). About Oct last year we started walking a fair bit more, on the footpath/verge- usually for about 45 mins 4 times a week. I don't run at all (lol, if you saw me running, you'd understand why!). With the setter, obviously damaging growing joints is also a concern. She won't mature to be as heavy as the Ridgy though. So, how much exercise is too much? This week we've been to the park (off lead, grass) 4 times, for 30 mins each time, and then yesterday and Wednesday we walked for 45 mins on each day. Is that too much? I would like to up that to walking 45 mins 4 times a week, if she can handle that much. It's just that a tired baby setter is a much... easier (!) companion in the evenings, compared with an energetic and mischievous baby setter! The only info I could find was a rough guide of '5 mins per month' till they mature, so that would be 35 mins a day I suppose. Should add- after a 45 min walk baby setter relaxes for about 10 mins and is then ready to go the whole distance again, I think :) TIA -Emma

Oh..I love doing that to people. Willow loves bull chews, we use them at bedtime to keep her quietly gnawing away if she's not quite ready to sleep. People ask me..."Oh, what are bull chews?" I say, "Well, you know...Bull...bits." Doesn't take em too long to put two and two together with interesting results. I'm always puzzled by people who say stuff like, "Poor Pig" or "Poor Cow" when buying pet treats. I ask them, "Do you like bacon?" But somehow that's different. A bit OT but after my 8yo daughter got over the fact I was giving our dog pigs ears, she became even more concerned that there was only 5 in the bag - she was worried there was a one eared pig getting around somewhere! LOL Having five is SO annoying isn't it? Not just the fact that some poor piggy now clearly only has one ear- as soon as you have more than one dog (leaving aside those of us who may in fact have five!) you always have an uneven number!! Ugghh, so annoying, for two-pawed and four-pawed family members. Always have to buy two packets. Someone in pig ear marketing is a step ahead, I suspect...

If I understand it correctly, councils can stipulate a "recommended dog limit" for their suburbs, although they don't have to actually use the word recommended when telling people about it :) If push comes to shove, however, they can only legally enforce it if there are neighbour complaints about barking, you are deemed to not have adequate space to house them, or if it is considered unhygeinic due to too much poo not picked up. That is NSW wide and can be found in the Companion Animal document. Edited- It's not in the Companion Animals Act, or regulations, sorry I answered without thinking it through 100%- but in State Environmental Planning Policies, and Local ones, that you will find noise complaint provisions and others that can apply to dogs.

Hello, Well, funnily enough- we added dog #3 to our household ten days ago! First time I've ever had three. We have three different breeds (now), Kelpie X, Ridgy, and Irish setter. The main thing I thought about was whether or not my first two would adjust or get along with another dog. I thought they would, and that has proved to be right (phew). Life is certainly busier now, but not extremely so. I won't lie, we've had to change our usual routine a bit... To be honest- I could have five of my Ridgy Leia and five Rexies, and the only change would be in my food and vet bills. The big difference has been adding in a third 'personality', another character to incorporate into our family. The Irish is a busy little soul, and is only 6 months old. Really the only extra work to do relates to her age and view of the world. She came from a wonderful breeder, and lived at night in kennels with her family- here in Cooma it's so cold, the dogs are inside at night. Big change for baby- She's still struggling with the whole 'the kitchen bench is not a doggy fast food outlet' concept! It's amazing how quickly you forget what puppies are like, lol. It's all good though. She loves all the exercising we do, and (quite) likes sleeping in her crate at night. It's fun having three! You get three different dog opinions on the one subject all the time. Wish I had been fast enough with the camera this week to capture Leia's total WTF? looks at the puppy's reaction to some things this week :D ETA- there is no sarcasm in this post, the breeder of my Irish is a truly awesome lady, the point I was making related to 'difference', not better or worse :)

Apologies for butting in- have been following this post for a while now. Tonight seems totally great for you guys! My two dogs- Kelpie X 6, Miss Ridgy 2 years old- always sleep on separate couches. They get along well, Miss 2 being the interloper 18 or so months ago. Mr 6 even after 18 months of happy play, hanging out, no fights, prefers his own couch or 'sleep space'. Miss 2 is not too fussed, but she complies if told she's in his personal space. Anyway your initial intro went pretty well the same as between our two intially, so there's much hope yet (IMO) :)

My other half sells them in his ski shop- his suggestion is use a GoPro brand vented helmet harness. He reckons you should be able to attach it to the dog harness easily and it would work the best. Good luck! Obviously lol we've thought about doing this but haven't tried it yet :)

Yep, Minimax, me too! wish it happened more often Luckily I also feel proud of them every time I see them- total apples of my eye :D

So true, for me too. I'm currently trying to build my own business (which would mean working from home) simply because it would mean I would never have to leave the woofies at home to go to work! I'm always a little jealous when I read the articles about people who have 'pet friendly offices' and are allowed to have their dogs with them at work. Yes, however, I have made (a) sacrifice- the main one being (and I'm getting this feeling also from the OP) that me and the other half don't always see eye to eye when it comes to the dogs- in his words, 'they're the only thing we EVER argue about!' Which is true. And sometimes stressful. But we work it out. My number one human relationship would ostensibly be better without dogs, but he doesn't know what I'm like to come home to when there aren't dogs there too!! :) I really feel (like many who have already responded) that my dogs ARE my life, and I love my life- so no sacrifice required. Sometimes, it is hard to convince others of the value one places in that life, but hey- if they value you, what else can be said?

Have read his first book, and my only comment would be- he does simplify his message- but it makes it easier for (simpletons like me) people to understand. That does involve a level of 'dumbing down' but he does make a huge amount of sense. Actually it completely changed my relationship with my sisters terrier x- I suddenly understood her subtle 'little dog' control shenanigans. I bought his book for her (my sis) as a Christmas pressie, but read it first! A lovely intelligent man who adores dogs- but like all advice, should always be assessed through your own 'glasses' and interpreted as you see fit, for your own dogs :)

Sometimes talking (typing) out loud to people you trust (or at least, trust to honestly help) makes all the difference. I understand your conundrum re guinea pigs and dogs- I'm a guinea pig addict from way back- and I have two lovely guineas, Bernard and Manny, and I know my dogs don't appreciate them the same way I do! Just last week, I was distracted while the dogs were in the yard (in the guinea pig cage area) and after 15 minutes alone together the dogs had 'busted through' the guinea pig's living area, into their house, and Bernard had escaped (but was recaptured unharmed shortly afterwards). My dogs are a Kelpie X and an RR who's nearly two, so the 'chase' instinct is there, but the terrier 'search and destroy' not so much. Luckily. Completely understand your feelings about not bonding. If Bernard had been killed- I would have been furious, but re-homing either the dogs would not have crossed my mind. They were only doing what instinct dictated. I love my fur-babies, but that's because I have bonded with both of them. My sister's beagle on the other hand? I love it because my sister does- but.... hmm, could re-home if my own dog. The best way to go, imho, is what's best for the dog. It is tempting as humans, to consider ourselves completely indispensable, and irreplaceable, but sometimes we're not really. A better place could be out there for your sweet terrier :) Best wishes for whatever decision you make, it cannot be easy to be in your shoes right now!