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Ooh! I like it- will look even better as a smaller size too- thanks! :)

Yes, doubling up on the merle gene is considered to be lethal white. So merle to merle matings are not a good idea. I met a dog last year who was the result of merle to merle breeding, copped the double merle, and had something like 10% vision. Harlequin to harlequin also produces semi lethal white - Mendelian expectancy 25% in each litter. These pure white puppies are usually deaf, and sometimes blind or vision impaired. They are usually euthanised at birth. Or they used to be, until some breeders found they could sell them .... Well, "lethal" implies "deadly" (in horses lethal whites die within days of birth because of a malformed intestine if I remember correctly, it simply does not connect to the anus....) Deaf or blind or even deaf and blind pups are not technically dead unless they are put down so it can hardly be called "lethal"? Am I missing something or did people simply like the sound of it and that is why it is called thus? Yep, that's right- breeding two Frame horses together gives you a 25% chance at a lethal white foal (LWF - homozygous Frame) which will die not long after birth from an incomplete intestinal tract. I never understood why in dogs they called it that either- those puppies will live while a LWF foal has to be pts or dies in pain a few hours/days after the only thing I can think of is the colour-?

Thanks guys. Will try again later (I like that one as she has her paws crossed over- and normally doesn't) Never know- might get lucky :)

ahh- okay :) I do have another one where you can change lenses- but I can't work that one very well...lol Yeah, my camera is funny- it will sometimes work perfectly and then (for what it seems) suddenly wash out the colours, so that you have to diminish the light in order for the colours to be displayed correctly- it's a pita.. especially if you want to capture moments that you can't re-create. Must really go through it's manual again- it does take beautiful pics- but you have to take a zillion to get them! lol

lol...not sure.. it's an Olympus sz-10 14 megapixel That can take BEAUTIFUL (after lots of messing around with the settings ect) pics when it wants to... :laugh:

Haha- thanks Huga! yeah, too far gone! Aussie, no it wasn't an iPhone pic- my iPhone at the mo takes much better photos than my camera that took the shot, because my camera (Olypus) is temperamental!

.. Okay, ta- disappointed now lol

Having camera troubles.. I really like this pic, but the quality isn't there- could anyone improve it so that it doesn't appear grainy and dark- and also remove the white triangular shape from the lounge? (I had a go- but couldn't get it) Much appreciated! (if it helps, the lounge is dark chocolate coloured)

Thank you :)

okay, thanks espinay (and yes, was referring to ANKC required tests):) Was hoping for a comprehensive list on all ANKC required tests for all breeds in the one spot. Ososwift- cheers, I figured it'd be a lot simplier to list the breeds that didn't require testing...wouldn't be too many I'd imagine?

Brindle comeback story here: http://www.k9-pines.com/germanshepherds_Brindle.html and thread to go with it: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/forum.read?mnr=583859-brindle-gsd--did-not-think-this-was-possible

These days that could be easily verified by requiring parentage DNA testing for such an unusual occurance. sure- but not when the new colour was introduced several generations back and not recorded accurately ;) Yes, hence the wording 'these days' ;) edited to add little winky eye, lol. not sure what you're getting at? anyone can fake a pedigree on some generations back and then "surprise!" a new colour pops up! Parentage verified yep, Grandparents verified yep! maybe even Great Grandparents...but beyond that...well you get the point. Saw it happen with a (another US story) Tobiano Arabian mare lol needless to say it lost it's papers and I believe the stud and dam also lost theirs *(along with their lines). And I was only talking about colours and patterns that didn't already exist in the breed- not one's that were already there. Brindle has always been a colour of the gsd, it was one of the originals along with white. A very unpopular opinion but I don't care how it has been introduced back, I'm just glad it is back. I agree with woofnhoof if colours are occurring naturally and don't cause health issues I don't believe they should be 'selectively bred out' just] cause those who make the standard don't like them. Yes, I acknowledged that. It was how it made a 'comeback' from extinction which raised the questions...and anyone would think that you're approving to falsify a line for the sake of a colour...?

I was going by your original post that brindle 'doesn't/can't hide' in GSDs?? It can in many breeds, in mine KB dominant blacks and ee reds can be brindle and not have it visually expressed, but if you are right and it doesn't/can't hide in GSDs I can't see how it could, umm, hide for several generations and then pop up. I think it probably could as I can't see why the recessive black in GSD's wouldn't mask it, but I was just going by your words. Anyway I'll back out slowly now, :laugh: okay, then- as far as I know they weren't black, but your standard blk and tan- mum may have had a bit of brindling on her* I can't remember all details as it was long ago but there were HUGE questions raised relating to the validity of their pedigree (or even if they had a pedigree) can't quite remember- but ofcourse they were marketed as "Purebred RARE GSD's. Brindle was in the breed, but became extinct- interestingly this breeder also breeds other RARE coloured GSD's. I'll see if I can dig it up again...

These days that could be easily verified by requiring parentage DNA testing for such an unusual occurance. sure- but not when the new colour was introduced several generations back and not recorded accurately ;) Yes, hence the wording 'these days' ;) edited to add little winky eye, lol. not sure what you're getting at? anyone can fake a pedigree on some generations back and then "surprise!" a new colour pops up! Parentage verified yep, Grandparents verified yep! maybe even Great Grandparents...but beyond that...well you get the point. Saw it happen with a (another US story) Tobiano Arabian mare lol needless to say it lost it's papers and I believe the stud and dam also lost theirs *(along with their lines). And I was only talking about colours and patterns that didn't already exist in the breed- not one's that were already there.

These days that could be easily verified by requiring parentage DNA testing for such an unusual occurance. sure- but not when the new colour was introduced several generations back and not recorded accurately ;)

Sometimes those colours don't exist in the breed until someone uses a different breed to introduce the colour. To me there is no rare colour, it's either correct (according to the breed standard) or it is not. I agree. It would be easy to fake document a unreg dog in order to 'add' a new (or extinct) colour back into the breed. A US breeder has been accused of doing that with some brindle GSD's- that apparently cropped up in a litter of normal coloured parents (forget exact details) thing is though...brindle doesn't/can't hide!!!!

Didn't someone say that every 5 years the breed standard comes under review? That's the time to voice an opinion! If it's in favour then they can amend it one would think. Sounds like the American QH and Paint registry lol virtually the same horse different patterns and colours because the QH people didn't want "flashy or excessive white" :)

Where can I find a current comprehensive list of all health checks available for ANKC breeds of dogs- *or if it is easier*- what are the breeds who don't require health testing prior to mating? Curious- as I see every now and then people will mention breeds without the need for testing-

Those markings look like the birdcatcher spots that horses get. Wow! they sure do!

more "panda shepherds" here http://www.kerstoneshepherds.net/colors/patterns.htm http://pandashepherds.com/ http://www.facebook.com/pages/K9-PINES-Kennel-Home-of-Liver-German-Shepherds-and-Woolly-Siberian-Huskies/125734893702 Read a thread not unlike the "parti Poodle" thread that was on here, here: http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/genetic-issues/175584-panda-shepherd.html American (akc) breed standard: http://www.akc.org/breeds/german_shepherd_dog/index.cfm

White GSD's arn't actually "white", but red (ee) they are fully pigmented (black skin, nails, eye rims ect) There are "panda" (apparently purebred) GSD's ( who have a white spottng pattern- I think they look rather odd though...

They can be Limited Registered if they crop up in a Main Registered litter. They just can't be obviously be used for breeding within our and other registries. My take on it is... the op should have taken notes of lines known to carry the "parti" gene and rally up others who also like the gene and either create another registry or lobby for the dogs with that colouring to be accepted eventually into the ANKC registry.

Isn't it? The dogs would be acknowledged as "pure-breed" (ie bred pure to the standards of breed stabilisation), wouldn't they (missed the discussion). The breeder wants to register but can't because the ankc don't have a slot for them. Isn't a back-yard-breeder someone who is breeding cross-breeds and/or someone who is breeding pure-breeds but doesn't want to register them with ankc? Just because ankc doesn't have a box to put a particular pure breed of dog in, should the breeder be stigmatised with the label of byb in the general sense that byb is used? Perhaps the problem is that the term "byb" is used to describe two different things? An indiscriminate breeder of cross-breeds with no ambition to stabilise to a pure-breed, and a byb, and that's why terminology gets so tangled and one is tarred with the same brush as the other? With all due respect to Troy, I tend to agree that if the rules are about what the ANKC permit, should the title of the forum be altered to reflect that, rather than have the title purport to embrace pure breeds of dogs. This of course would narrow things by precluding breeds formally recognised by other International organisations, though. This particular person was breeding Limited registered dogs together creating unregistrable dogs. No different to a backyard breeder who may also have Limited registered (or not registered at all) dogs- No different to someone buying a registered purebred and then breeding it to others of the same (registered or not) breed- without being a financial member and a registered breeder of their kennel club of their state. No rules, no regulations - nothing.

The op was breeding unregisterable dogs- no different to that of a backyard breeder.

That's 'cause they're soooooooooooooo rare (mr rolleyes where are you!!!) Whenever I see one advertised as "rare" - I feel like screaming they're not rare anymore!!! :laugh: