Greyt

Hi Lhok, You are right. The US (industry) says 90% re-homing Australia is at 5% As indicated just a few posts up, a lot of factors are different such as gambling laws, private track ownership, public awareness as to the fate of greyhounds, animal welfare sentiment are just some. Comparing the two experiences however is informative - they are far mor advanced in the process of Greyhound rights as it were - we can learn from them, what worked and adopt similar strategies to end intolerable practices and what didn't work and avoid the strategies that didn't work. And you are right too about the Australian rescues struggling but it is much more to do with the rampant over breeding perpetrated by the industry. Dis you know that the RSPCA estimates that there are correct.16,000 Greyhounds PTS every year? Perhaps if we couldn't learn anything at all from a country that has already been through what we are going through, we could learn a thing or 2 from the number 16,000?

Have a seat anywhere you like!

This is Lonnie. The ball does not belong to him. He lost the ball... with his muzzle on! I re-reimbursed the owner, lol.

The races themselves produce a lot of injuries and PTS events. I don't know how much of an appetite the public has for that but there haven't been public outcrys, yet, in the same way that there have been for jumpers in horse-racing. And yet estimates are that up to 600 injury/PTS events occur every month in Australia.There are many ways to make the actual racing safer eg if the tracks were straight instead of round, there would be far less injuries. Finding the will and the $$ to make the races safer are another matter By far the worst by-product of the industry is the rampant over-breeding that occurs. The industry admits that around 40% of whelped dogs never make it to the track and are subsequently disposed of, then thousands more healthy adult dogs are PTS every year. If the by-product of having an organised sport is that 10000-15000, healthy dogs are disposed of, every year, I am not for such a sport. In the USA, industry estimates are that up to 90% of ex-racers are re-homed where as in Australia only about 1000 lucky dogs find a new home ever year.

Unintended consequences can occur in any area of human endeavour, in the same way that a considered, well thought out, and well executed plan can bring about managed change that results in positive outcomes. There is no doubt that badly managed change can have devastating consequences so it is definitely time to put the thinking caps on in order to avoid a travesty. It is interesting to me that in the US, where the tracks are privately run, many have shut down as they have been unable to make a dollar due to factors including that people prefer other forms of entertainment and a rising level of interest in animal welfare that has occurred at the same time. In Australia, despite numbers at the door decreasing markedly over the years, we have plans to open a new track in Logan, QLD but the land for the track will be gifted to the industry and considerable public $$$ will be spent to assist the development therein (it's a complicated deal that resulted in the closure of the Gold Coast trots and greyhounds track)..

Is it safe to assume that a cart dog-like epidemic didn't happen to Greyhounds when state-by-state, 39 states banned racing/betting on the dogs?

@ sandgrubber. Greyhound racing has now been banned in 39 of the 50 states in the US. Can you let us know if there have been any reports of live-baiting, over breeding or mass disposal in any of the states that have banned racing, say five years after the bans came in to effect.. Since your location is Florida, you might know something we don't.

Your story reminds me of another UK story, this one from 2010. The story describes the horrible conditions in which Greyhounds were kept. The headline is, "Agony of Caged Greyhounds" An activist group filmed Greyhounds left suffering with open wounds and struggling to find food. Prior to the footage being aired, the RSPCA (UK) determined during four separate visits, the condition of all the dogs and their environment was found to be of the highest order". http://www.express.c...aged-greyhounds In turn, that reminds me of a similar discovery in just 2013 here in Australia. From memory, about 20 starving Greyhounds, many with un-treated open-wounds were being kept on a farm. The mal-nourishment and mal-treatment as stark and deplorable. Due to the incredible commitment of local rescuers and many wonderful fosters and first time owners as well as community donations and discounted or no-cost vet care, most were treated, rehabilitated and re-homed.

@labadore, Thank you so much for the information. The ABC report I am sure will give more weight to the submissions that have reported deplorable conditions and behaviour in a way that only words could not. The Victorian Racing Minister's statement is probably the first forthright, plain English, tell it like it is statement I have ever read on the matter. It is so refreshing that the silence has been broken. It is not all plain sailing though. Meanwhile, here is what my local Member in QLD wrote to me when replying to my email asking for strong action, (Quote)However, it's important that we don't see a knee jerk reaction by the government that could potentially hurt an industry that provides thousands of jobs and contributes billions of dollars to the economy. While in Government, the LNP had a proud history of working with the RSPCA and other animal welfare organisations to protect animals across our state.I've taken the liberty of forwarding your concerns to the Queensland Minister responsible for racing, the Hon. Bill Byrne MP and asked him to respond to you directly." (end quote) Wholly disappointing. I am very thankful for all of the work that has been done by those that have agitated for change - bit by bit, it is already making a change for the better.

Your story is heartbreaking for me. Keeping greyhounds in tiny enclosures however is legal. As much as it is legal, it is shocking to me. And so is the number of dogs that are made to disappear if they are not fast enough. A single man in England was once convicted of Killing 10,000 Greyhounds. I have seen footage of healthy, beautiful dogs in the USA whose trainers paint their head with a big letter "E" (for euth). When the trainer walks by, the dog is so happy to see him.. just like my dogs are to see me when I come home (pat please, pat please!!) Then, they are taken out the back of the property by another man and shot in the head. Then they are put in a big plastic bag and dumped in a dumpster. They are examples from overseas. A trainer from Australia recently gave evidence to a parliamentary enquiry stating he knows the same thing happens here. The cost? $50 Rampant overbreeding and money only being paid to the place getters (I think up to 8 race but only 3 owners get paid) are largely the pre-cursers here but other factors such as injury (racing life causes a huge number of can't race again or straight out PTS scenarios) play a part too. Greyhounds are a goofy breed and many just HATE to lose a race - many, if they see a dog in front, they want to catch it - sometimes they want to bite it.They want to win, not for chasing the lure but to be the one the others have to catch - the fastest. Prey drive itself is not consistent within the breed. Some Greyhounds seem to have none whist others clearly have a way above average level. ETA, On average, the Greyhound breed has higher levels of prey drive than other breeds.But for example, a high drive dog with a horrible running action will be slow and subject to the big painted "E" (so to speak). It is truly horrible.

You are reading the posts correctly, not many ITT have stated what they do believe in when it comes to ending not only live baiting but other, equally horrible behaviour that goes on in the industry, yet that knowledge is widely known inside the industry. Now is time to make it known to the wider public. I am perplexed about a lot of the comments ITT. Not being affiliated with any group, but loving Greyhounds it is hard for me to understand why there are not more calls here, of all places, to end the killing and deplorable practices. I am aware that there are some people involved in Greyhound Rescue that dedicate their life to re-homing the ones that make it out alive. Perhaps they get their dogs from the more ethical trainers (there are many in the industry) and are worried about being cut off. There are others whose organisations are paid by the greyhound racing industry to re-home the lucky ones so they might feel it unethical to take the money for rescue but bad-mouth the industry for its nefarious practices. I know a lady in NSW who transports Greyhounds for a living (indirectly drawing her income from the industry) and rescues where she can. In her mind, she personally does what she can (a great deal at that) and that is good enough for her. I don't know any of the posters ITT and nobody has PM'd me so I really don't know their circumstances and if they have reasons for not talking, personal to them. I suspect many of them do. But it is silence and systematic hiding of the truth from the general public that means the industry kills in numbers that make the rescue numbers look paltry year after year and the conditions most greyhounds live in are deplorable, their diets appalling etc. To me, these are the big picture items and nobody ITT, to my recall has tried to say they are not true. if there was ever a time in the last 75 years to end the silence and improve the lot of Greyhounds by telling the public about the whole story it is now. Now, is the time. Unfortunately the silence is almost deafening. As to prey drive, their is not to my limited knowledge a direct correlation between, high prey drive and speed. At the end of the day, speed is what most counts. If a Greyhound is not speedy enough their is a VERY high chance that it will be disposed of.

I don't expect that you care for me or what I think one little bit and that is your right. Your comments that the people you referred to have NFI as you put it, speak for themselves. Let me explain, I feel those same people want the very best welfare outcomes for Greyhounds. They want Greyhounds to stop living in little cages for 20 hours per day, they want to stop the mass disposal of vigorous, healthy Greyhounds that occur year after year. They want to stop the live baiting and the doping and the pathetic diets. To say that those same people have NFI is to directly or indirectly support an industry where all of the above occurs on a daily basis. And to completely misunderstand the aims and motivations of the very people that are actively trying to eliminate anti-animal welfare practices Even if all live baiting is stamped out today, we still have an industry that fails dismally on the welfare of dogs in its care and kills thousands upon thousands of healthy greyhounds every year because they are excess to the sports requirements. That is what I care about. In terms of going around and around on a topic, we don't seem to be going around and around on the anti welfare practices perpetuated by the industry and how we can all stamp it out forever. As much as you will probably deride me, I would genuinely like to hear your views on that.

No, you didn't say other things. What you did say is above and it's an abominable comment, I was ashamed to even read it. To quote you, verbatim, "They didn't think that far ahead, they didn't think about where dogs will go if the industry was shut down completely they still have NFI. Gone Are The Dogs posted this morning "what happens to the dogs now?" Should've thought about that earlier hey?" The campaigners have "NFI"? You mean the people appalled by live baiting, doping, unfathomable "wastage", cheating, money laundering, various other criminal activity not to mention that board members are being caught out, ex-stewards have been involved in live-baiting and self regulation is a joke. You mean those people have "NFI"? Tell me, what do you think of the public's outrage about this issue? I stand by my comment. I feel your comments ware entirely inappropriate to make on a dog forum, especially in a thread discussing the cruelty perpetrated against animals... and I never called you names.

Hi Helen, Your aspirations are well founded and laudable. In addition to what you want, I am also for ending the cruelty to Greyhounds that goes on in the industry and of ending the mass disposal of the dogs that don't make it. I feel now is a unique time in history to bring about change that betters the lives of Greyhounds before and after they are re-homed. I feel that is a reasonable expectation to express those aspirations on a forum dedicated to dogs. I also feel that the general public caught only a glimpse of what really goes on behind the scenes last Monday and it is time now to air ALL of the dirty laundry and not just some of it in the interests of animal welfare. I don't believe that my views are extreme or not in line with how the general public would feel about the treatment of Greyhounds. It is disturbing to me that very few people in this thread, even though many are involved in the industry and some draw their income from the industry are not bringing these deplorable practices into the light so that the welfare of the breed can be improved going forward. Surely they would know more about these practices than the rest of us?

Now, I don't respect the breed? Will it ever end? Where have I implied that? Er, it is right there above. If I can't respect the breed, implies I don't respect the breed. Oh, that's right, I haven't. Nice work there, cutting and pasting quotes to make it look like I said something I didn't. This is what I was replying to- And I'm sure you were aware of that. But whatever, I'm not feeding the crazy any further. Oh, I am sorry. The first part of your post was ambiguous. Now I am "crazy". Sorry, is that bullying behaviour? Is that even allowed on DOL? Why all the personal attacks? Did you go to character assassination school or have you completed a course on maligning reputations? It is telling that for all of the suggestions of how to improve the welfare of animals I have made in this thread, you haven't picked up on a single one. And yet you have made so many wrong assumptions and aired them on a public forum in an effort to belittle me. And in this whole thread, how many characterisations have you made about people who are actually cruel to animals - you know, those people in the Greyhound Racing Industry featuring so prominently in the media lately? To me, that speaks to your true character.

Prey drive is inerrant in the species. The Greyhound Racing Industry routinely "dispose of" dogs with low levels of prey drive. Numerically, this leaves a more than natural number of dogs that do survive the industry with a a higher than average level of prey drive. Lots of greyhound owners report that their dogs that used to chase small animals, no longer do. This indicates to me that it is just something inerrant in the breed that needs to be managed.

Edited because I can't' get this quoting thing to work. Maddy said in an a post above, "If you can't respect the breed for what it is, you shouldn't be involved in rehoming them" It implies that I don't respect the breed. I feel it is yet another character assassination.

Although Maddy has tried to put words in my mouth around whether I think every greyhound can be re-homed (yes I feel affronted that Maddy chooses a public forum to air her wrongly drawn conclusion). My actual view is that any dog of any breed that does not pass a temp assessment should not be re-homed. Because Greyhounds have often led such deplorable lives before they are re-homed and have to start from the start as it were, after training, I feel they should be given extra opportunities to pass their temp assessments - time and good handling techniques can transform the overwhelming majority. I feel it would be great if the industry paid for long term foster care for example. BTW, great job on the recall training of your Whippets. They are remarkable results.

Now, I don't respect the breed? Will it ever end? If you believe that greyhounds should be kept in tiny cages or runs their whole life while in training, please just say it. If you believe that keeping greyhounds in tiny cages or runs their whole life while in training does not produce a greater preponderance of behavioural issues vs the way we normally raise pets please just say it.

My point is that all of the sighthounds, only Greyhounds are routinely treated so poorly and cruelly that some develop behavioural issues as a result of how the greyhound industry houses them, trains them, feeds them etc Change the way greyhounds are treated in the first place and you will reduce the number of behavioural problems they present with.

What are you on? Coffee + nicotine. I don't have access to other forms of drugs and I would appreciate far more if you wanted to impute the character of the greyhound dopers and those connected to the industry that have stood by and watched all of the harm to the dogs in their care. But please refrain from inferring anything about my character.

I pick, Afghan Basenji Borzoi Deerhound Ibizan Irish Wolfhound Italian Greyhound Pharoah Hound Saluki Whippett All fast, all bred to hunt independently, lots have terrible recall. None are routinely kept in tiny cages for 20 hours per day. Kirty sums it up well, "As for your other comments, of course their behaviour is due to their upbringing. Everybody knows that. The same is true for all dogs. However no other breed of dog is routinely raised in kennels and runs, not properly trained or socialised, taught to chase and potentially kill small animals - and then turfed out into the community. When raised as a pet as part of a family, they are no different to any other dog. But when raised in the manner described above, care must be taken when rehoming."

My bad then - I apologise for taking your words out of context. Aussielover seems to have a genuine fear that Greyhounds provide a greater risk to children around toys/balls in public places than other breeds of dogs. I contend that Greys are amongst the least likely of breeds to bite a child. I understand that you use the green collar program to provide 2 assessments. 1 around re-homing and the other around wearing muzzles in public.

Thank you for a reasoned response. As GAPVIC has explained however, the resource guarding test is around food. I don't think it involves taking a greyhound to a dog park, giving it a toy and then inviting a child to remove the toy. I haven't seen a greyhound in a fight over a resource (including a human resource) in a dog park although I have seen lots of other breeds fight over toys and balls etc. Far too many in fact. In Victoria greyhounds with green collars must be on leash at all times. If a child tries to take a toy away from a greyhound in that situation, the handler is not paying enough attention. Other states don't have the same requirements. I have proposed ITT that the Greyhound Racing Industry should pay for fosters and new owners to be trained in how to best handle Greyhounds. There are a lot of practical things that can be taght to assist the owner and dog to have a great experience in going out in public. My personal opinion is that resource guarding of greyhounds around toys/balls wouldn't be amongst the priorities. If you have a genuine fear that a Greyhound is likely to attack a child in a public place over a resource, you can rest easy. They are amongst the least likely breeds to do so.

Your call 100% Well, I would say angry about all of the harm been done by the greyhound racing industry. The issues in question are the woeful record the Greyhound racing has in the welfare of animals. But you don't do a lot of commenting on that. I am sorry about the poor formatting, it is terrible and driving me nuts too. As opposed to trying to make a thread about animal welfare (specifically, the woeful record the Greyhound racing has in the welfare of animals) into a thread on temp testing (which I agree with).? It is great to read a reply of yours that finally offers a legitimate opinion (I disagree with you, but I am allowed to right?) instead of putting words in my mouth and drawing conclusions about my beliefs that I have never stated and I am horrified by.