german_shep_fan

BC and Trifecta am on ph but will reply to your PMS soon. There are not many pics of the very early or first GSDs but these are some I know of that are floating around on the web. Obv personal opinion but I believe my girl still resembles these very early shepherds https://leerburg.com/webboard/printthread.php?topic_id=13205 There are also pics of the changes in the breed which are easily found on Google but they only begin from the 40s or so. I believe if it ain't broke then don't fix it basically. There are a lot of factors that go into breeding, dogs that complement each other, the health and temperament of each dog and its ancestors ect. The list is obv endless. Von Stephanitz never cared what colours or patterning a dog was, he cared that the dog was sound in structure and temp and could work and I believe that is what my girl represents.

My TroyBoy is my heart boy. I adored him from the first moment I saw him, never had that feeling before or again. I love all my dogs past and present and tear up at the mere thought of something happening to them but with Troy everything is intensified tenfold.

Thanks BC :) Your compliments mean a lot to me Nek

I haven't got any vids/too lazy to upload vids of desirable movement (uploaded some pics of my girl instead) but really they should just gait 'normally' like any other working breed. I know they are supposed to have their own individual movement styles but it is still not meant to be how the majority of the show lines gait. To me there are essentially 3 different sub types of GSD now. Show, working and Old Sytle. We have always owned the old style or 'old true' GSDs as they once were, they don't usually have as higher prey drive and are not as full on as the working sheps and are therefore more suitable as family companions. (nothing against the working lines, many of them are wonderful family pets too). I don't like what the show breeders have done to the breed and it makes me mad/sad that ppl always now say they look crippled and abnormal (which they are). Unfortunately the old style are hard to come by these days. Many of these breeders have a very long waiting list (go figure). I don't often look through the profiles here on dol anymore but I had a quick check the other day and there is a new profile for a dog named Yana, nicknamed yana the banana dog, like its some sort of funny joke that the dog's back is banana shaped in the show stack? My girl's parents herd on their farm, she is a farm girl and is an old style girl, she has never wobbled when she walks and she has never (and should never) be loose in her movement. I am going to be one of those annoying ppl who upload stock pics just cos I am proud of my girl and her breeders for having the guts to say no to the fashion trends and stick to what a good GSD is meant to be :) The only dog's Thea cannot outrun are greyhounds, or if she cannot outrun them she keeps pace with them until they run out of steam :p In short, no they shouldn't be as they now are, but don't be discouraged, there are still ppl out there who stay true to the breed, you just have to look a little harder to find them these days :)

Love both pics! Beautiful!

I don't know much abt the colours in the labs, was chocolate not an acceptable colour before?

Your dogs your choice. No one should be able to force you to desex if you don't want to. Doesn't automatically make you a bad or uniformed person. Not rocket science to prevent pregnancy ect. So sick of all these dogooder laws gov want to bring in.

One of those ads said the parents are imports?? Are you even allowed to import a banned breed? I wouldn't have thought so, maybe they imported the dogs under a different breed name? A lot of those ads seem dodge though. A quick flick through the GSD listings and one claims to have pedigrees for sale then in the next sentence says they are great for ppl with allergies as they don't shed!! UGH

I would think two dogs of the same sex female/female, male/male may challenge or fight more than male/female? When I had my mother/daughter pair the daughter was always challenging her mother, never won. But never let a day go by without giving her some curry on the pack leadership issue. Had male/female combos since then and have only had the male challenge the female once and vice versa. I personally don't think desexing makes much difference to dominance issues as I see that as a personality/character trait.

Out of interest what breed of dogs are they? Willing to bet not labs or retrievers, otherwise you prob wouldn't have been harassed. I get the same treatment when I walk my dogs past their little darlings outside the local school in the mornings.

wow just beautiful! Thanks for sharing :)

Thanks very much!

Looks awesome! :) I should look into it and see if there are any events up my way that I can go and check out :)

Thanks TrinaBean :) Bianca, Troyboy and Thee say hi to Molly and Coops :)

If its the first time it has happened I would just trust your dogs instincts. Dogs seem to have a sixth sense about the nature of people. When I was a baby our GSD Tessie was going ape at a painter my parents got in to do the house. My father ended up tying her up and having to apologise to the guy as she had never been like that before. Dad said if he hadn't have tied her up he would of worried she was going to kill him every time he went near my room. They found out two weeks later he had just gotten out of jail for break and enters ect ect. She never acted that way again to anyone that came near me in her whole 15yrs of life. Dogs just know.

Thanks heaps guys! Her and her brother are pretty special :)

Great pics :)

Been a while since I bombarded DOL with one of my pic posts so thought I would post a few new pics of my girl and boy :) She was 18mnths old in April. Boy where does the time go! She is definately daddy's little girl lol Halo has stamped her well! She adores playing with sticks, her favourite game atm is getting other dogs to chase her with them :p She loves going to the pony club And being with her big brother :)

Chiro is the first place I take all of my dogs, pups included. +1 I trust the chiro way more than the vets when it comes to Hips/Elbows ect.

Pardon me? I referred to research that links desexing to an increased incidence of Hemangiosarcoma. You joked about having a good laugh with your vet, suggesting I had said "desexing causes Hemangiosarcoma". In other words you both misintepreted what I'd said and rubbished the research. Because this so called research is a load of crap, as Hemangiosarcoma doesn't occur in every breed. It doesn't occur in Belgian Shepherds, Rottweilers, Collies (rough & smooth) Poodles and many others.... so who ever did this "research" and claimed "desexing leads to an increased incidence of Hemangiosarcoma" must have been smoking something. Check this link. http://sydney.edu.au/vetscience/lida/dogs/ What did shock me was the number of breeds that von willebrands disease occured in. I do pardon you. :) Tarope this is getting a bit out of hand. You are not the only member here who has lost their beloved gsd or dog of any breed to hamengiosacorma. The info I posted and research and data collected DOES pertain to gsds. If you choose to laugh off the facts the HW and I have posted then so be it. They say cure is at least 20 years off so all that can be done in the meantime is research causes and contributing factors or just stay away from the breed altogether. Sorry for going so OT OP

Well, your vet can read the veterinary research published in veterinary journals that has discusses an increased incidence of Hemangiosarcoma in desexed animals and conclude that hormones have a role in preventing its occurence. That's not the same as "desexing causes Hemangiosarcoma". Laugh it up but the science is out there for those who care to look for it. +1 My own personal experience speaks to this, coincidence or not my 2 past sheps I desexed both died of it and the one we didn't died at 15 of old age. Many US breeders are now keeping data on their puppy owners and the results as to wether or not the dogs are desexed and how long the dog lives and what it dies of. The results are speaking for themselves.

You sound like you did your research & found that there's 'a cancer common in GSDS'. Seems you weighed up element of risk in getting a GSD? Did you ask the breeder if it occurred in the depth & breadth of your pup's background? I expect there's no genetic test for the cancer you're talking about? There's no magic bullet genetic tests for most human conditions either. There's also a complex interaction between a certain mutation.... what other mutations exist... & the environment. So someone can carry a mutation but the condition never arises. Dog breeders can't be held to a different standard of disease prevention than that which is possible for humans. You ask any GSD owner have you heard of Hemangiosarcoma and the answer would be no and I'd never heard of it either until my poor girl died of it, but breeders know about it and are not going to tell puppy buyers that this Cancer is common in GSD's that there are no tests or symptoms until it's too late and it's always fatal and can get it as young as 5 years of age are they. And yet a quick Google links the risk of Hemangiosarcoma to the breed, notes that its not an uncommon cancer in dogs generally and links desexing to an increased risk of the cancer. So what would you have GSD breeders do other than to recommend buyers don't desex their pups? Why is it when a purebred dog has a health issue its generally blamed on breed when a crossbred dog has the same issue, its just bad luck? Yes, there are absolutely breeds that are more prone to some issues but it's not a guarantee of issues occuring anymore than being crossbred guarantees health. Until statistics are gathered on randomly bred dogs, no one knows how common health issues are for them. Some good points HW. All you can do is understand how common it is (latest stats I read were 1 in every 2 or half of all GSDs). If you want to take the risk then fork out the $$$ if you want. I will not be desexing any of my shepherds ever again now, not rocket science to control behaviour and wether or not a bitch mates. Unfortunately, even if breeders did take srs note of the research I doubt they would give puppy buyers the option of not desexing as most go on limited reg and would want them done.

Poor baby so glad they got him out! Agree, looks like a chocolate BC to me

Yes well put. There are many potential problems with desexing, and as best as I can tell Pyo & Mammary cancer are the two BIG risks with not.We have flip-flopped again, and are seriously considering a little bitch. It's good to see arguments both for and against instead of the usual stuff on fb of desex or you are a bad dog owner who will contribute to the number of pound dogs ect. For me the risk of pyo is worth it as I truly believe in the research that is being done overseas on spayed vs entire in relation to hamengiosacorma. My girl will be 18mnths nxt week and vet just recently did an implant for her. I guess at the end of the day it is up to each individual dog owner to decide what is best for them.

It also shows how over-using one dog or one line can do much damage. I wonder how breeders take this into consideration? We always talk about "bettering the breed" but it doesn't seem like there is a breed master plan, just individuals doing their best. Apparently there is a similar issue with Std Poodles and many dogs being traced back to a few very popular show dogs a few generations back. It's called Dominant or Popular Sire Syndrome and it isn't confined to dog breeding. A sire named Impressive produced a very serious issue in Quarter Horses some years back. He was responsible for a genetic mutation that produced a devastating muscular disorder that widely in the breed. Google "Impressive Syndrome" if you want to know more about it. The best breeders breed on pedigree not popularity but this is the inherent danger in ANY breeding. Genetic results are not entirely predictable. yes I know and its still going on now unfortunately. That's what is amusing, some of these issues were started by reg breeders but they get uptight when byb don't test for them. Fortunately now the mess of hemophilia is mostly a thing of the past.