pepe001

When I bought my old shepherd home from he vets wrapped in a horse blanket on the back of his favourite ute, my other two dogs acted completely differently. The kelpie didn't care and actually sat on top of the him to highfive me - creepy. He never even reacted to seeing the body. But the lab* (who was a thinker-dog - not a loony happy boy like the kelpie) saw his old mate and dropped down. His head hung down and he looked so so sad. I don't think he ever recovered. He was never the same again - he seemed depressed. He died a few short months later. Not sure about their reaction to owners dying but I did find a friend dead (heart attack) with his little dog a few years ago. The dog was quite distressed but she had been sitting with him for 3 days before I found them so I guess she had a reason to be distressed. She reverted back to herself eventually but she did have her other owner to care for her, the wife.

Bullarabs aren't a breed though. They're just a type and that type varies so widely. Bullarabs usually have Dane, working dog, a bit of sighthound and something heavier and the dogs can look like anything. Horse Puppy is not a Bullarab and has none in her but there is a dog down the road who is a bullarab and looks almost identical to Horse Puppy. In reality I'm pretty sure if the dog has no real defining qualities of a single breed then 'Large mix breed', 'Medium mix breed' etc will suffice. Our need to label everything is putting innocents in the line of fire. Many people think they are a breed. As does the ABBA, The Australian Bull Arab Association. My cousins are piggers and all have heaps of bull arabs are as you describe. But many people would call them a bullmastiff *. To me it is just a big dog type as well. I just think BULL ARAB that is where the BULL came from. After all mastiff is a type so I actually don't mind them being mastiff * but not a BULLMASTIFF*. Unlike pitbull which is a breed (thetically) but most think it is a type as well - that annoys me. I hate when commonly people use an actual breed name for a type - as you said. Incidentally, what is Horse Puppy - do you know his breeding. This week end I met a very large dog owned by an elderly lady who would be called bullarab or bull mastiff *. But she called her a Ban Dog. She was one of the most lovely dogs I have ever met and the absolute perfect dog for this owner who lived alone, couldn't walk much due to ill health and this girl was very happy laying at her feet all day. Polite, calm, barks when someone knocks and otherwise silent. The lady loved her to death.

This is my theory - right or wrong - no idea but a theory. Mastiff has became the label for large x bully breed dog. Five years ago they were pitbulls for the slightly smaller bully crosses and mastiff for the larger ones. But the 'considered bad' pitbull name is dropped off a bit and any shorthaired, big headed cross dog is a mastiff. BUT 10 years ago, or so, these dogs were called BULL ARABS - a large shorthaired bully cross designed to chase and catch pigs. NOW the BULL bit is added to the MASTIFF bit by mistake and so becomes the BULL MASTIFF. Most, probably all, people who use this term don't even know what a real bull mastiff even looks like and I don't think many of these dogs even have it in their parentage at all. I used to have a large black dog (pet shop special from my husbands first family). He looked like a very tall/large lab with straight back legs. He was always referred to as a lab*mastiff. I doubt he had any actual bull mastiff in him but something short haired and big. BULL ARAB type dog I expect.

To buy pulling harnesses made to fit (don't use sore bought ones) go to www.windchill.com.au. The have a plan on their website showing each measurement you need to make a safe harness. Good luck - sounds like fun

But what about the euthanasia papers that the story said exists?

I bet this happens more than we think. A vet or vet nurse feels sorry for a dog being put to sleep and rehomes it themselves. I still occasionally think about my Dane bitch when I was much younger. My boyfriend took her to be put down when her health problems started to take over her life and impact her badly. I was too young and weak to cope and didn't go nor did I bury the body. I still worry she was 'saved' and didn't get put down due to my weakness. I think he just dropped her off. God I feel bad now just thinking about how irresponsible I was. Never again will I, or did I, be so weak and irresponsible.

The council man (ACT) I was involved with (re the dog reporting nutter) told me that over 95% of calls he receives about excessive barking were not about dogs at all but neighbours being unreasonable. He said the lengthy process required to take the matter further was designed to weed out a few nutters. I showed him my very large file on things I had been reported for and he was astounded that she was allowed to harass me so badly. But that is the point each section of the Gov must address complaints as they get it and not consider the history. In hindsight it didn't take long for each Dept to get sick of her. The police only too 3 visits before they told her they will not attend again. I guess they got sick of knocking at my door at 4 am and me answering the door weary eyes and in a dressing gown in the middle of a Canberra Winter.

It can go a long way. I ended up with an attempt to put an AVO against me and in court. Didn't work as I had never approached her. My nutter wasn't just focusing on my dogs but everything and I just had to wait until she ran out of things to complain about and she moved. Unfortunately there is no crime in complaining and no-one for me to complain to - you just meet each challenge as it comes. If I were you I wouldn't approach her or write a letter or anything - let the council deal with it. They get nutters all the time and are good at weeding them out. For me first it was me leaving my car running in my carport. She would ring noise control (who would ring me and usually wake me up to ask if I had my car running - nope) and then the police. They would come out and put their hand on the bonnet and walk away shaking their heads. Then it was my cat running on her roof. Yep, the 3-legged inside cat. Then it was me keeping native birds - nope - noisy miners for a university eradication study. Then me trying to break into her house - I just laughed that off. Then barking dogs. The phone call I received was when I was in Darwin. I answered the mobile and the real estate said she had had a barking dog complaint. I told her I was in Darwin with my dog sitting next to me. She laughed. But still ended up with a council complaint - they dismissed it. I did the notes thing and often left for a few days and hoped they aligned with her notes of a complaint - they did. Also all other neighbours wrote letters for me. Council told me to sit tight and wait for her to move. It was very stressful and horrible at the time but eventually she blew her stack and left my life. Thank god. Good luck and try not to let a nutter impact on your life.

This one must have been mentioned already - 'golden Labrador'. I used to automatically correct with 'yellow'. But have just given up and grit my teeth and smile sweetly. Many people have asked me what breed my black GSD pup is. After I say a GSD, most have said, 'they don't come in black'. I explain that they do and also other colours apart from the regular black and tan. At least I haven't got from anyone that he must be a cross, as I was told many times with my sable GSD.

A friend in Brisbane is looking for a small dog. Age or type doesn't matter. She currently has a small staffy bitch who needs a friend so I suggest a male. Inside/outside dog - mostly inside. Well fenced garden. No need ever ignored as she always put the dogs needs above most everything . Vet attention guaranteed when necessary. Professional grooming will be done if necessary. Older single lady who loves her dogs and nothing is too much. She does have grandkids at weekends so dog will need experience with kids. Just a friendly little dog who gets on well with her current dog and someone who loves a cuddle on the couch would be a bonus. Anyone have a rescue in Brisbane who may suit?

I can't believe how long some people wait before looking for their dog. I found an elderly small dog last Xmas who was in quite a bad state. I rang everyone I needed to and also the local pound. I convinced them to let me keep the little bloke at home as he was too old for the pound and they agreed. He was taken to a vet and they told me to wait until his time was up and he was mine to address his possible problems. A week later the owner looks at the website and reclaim the dog from me. He was old and had missed out on vital drugs for the 10 days he was missing (plus his vet was not local and they didn't think of ringing local vets). I told them he would have been destroyed in that time at the pound - they didn't seem to care. Dumb dumb dumb.

Also many long coasted dogs are shaved due to making it easier to find ticks.

Thank you. I predicted $500 so I was a bit high. Good

Does anyone know the approximate cost of flying a puppy from Melbourne to Brisbane. GSD so I guess 8kgs or there abouts? Either a excess baggage or by itself.

I just looked at Macklin and they are one of these mixing working and showlines.

There are plenty of breeders around producing what they call 'old style' which seems to be a mix of working and show. I have seen a few longcoat sables oin websites. I'm a pure working person myself but you may find one of these will suit as well. Good luck with finding your new friend.

I had a Golden Retrieve with one eye closed. I just answered from gut instinct so probably a feeling from the Goldens I have known.

There was a thread here about mismarked labs a while ago. I have personally seen two brindle point labs in Brisbane and both had papers according to the owners. Does that lab breeder live in SEQld? I have also seen a litter of working line labs that were black with white paws. Apparently the Queen had a white-pawed dog who was used by outside breeders. Incidentally I have heard of a story where an elderly lady had her cocker spaniel clipped and it became a small rotti bitch. Apparently, she had adopted it as a black and tan cocker but once the longish coat was off it looked exactly like a rotti.

I agree with you entirely, LMS. They are a wonderful breed and I have met many great GSDs from both camps. Plus your Roscoe is truly lovely. I have had the please of owning a rescue GSD (but he came with papers so I also got to meet his breeder and parents) and one DDR (who died of old age a couple of years ago) and cared for an ex police dog after he retired (he was show-line and a great dog) and also care for two breeding bitches in their retirement. All have been very different dogs and all special in their own way.

Alpha, that is where I see you have it wrong. The high prey drive and the stability was there already when the Communist Germans were breeding them. No breeder put it in in recent years. The original breeders in the East up to 1989 and those in West prior to losing the war (when Germany united) selected for a dog to do the jobs defined in the day which was generally to be a human service dog. The traits selected made the GSDs into unpassable border patrol dogs for the East. It was the breeders for show after the dog started leaving Germany that removed these traits by breeding for looks alone. I actually prefer a decently bred working line dog for a companion animal as well - and did have one. Generally, they are more stable, calmer, less nervous, and less reactive. But like any breed and any type - the breeders ethics are paramount. I will go for a confident dog any day over a nervous one. As you agree - there are always breeders who screw with what is 'right' and try to emphasise traits wether it be show breeders or work breeders. Not all show breeders will accept nervous dogs (these are the breeders I respect) but by god there was so many nervous fear biting shepherd at shows when I was first looking for a GDS in the mid-90s. Ask any vet how many GSDs are fear biters and how many working line dogs have they seen that do this. One vet asked me to muzzle my dog before she wanted to see it. So I took him in a few times and she changed her mind about all GSDs being fear biters and would treated my dog wonderfully. And even asked for his breeder details so she can recommend this to others. We need to agree that different people want different things from their dogs and both can exist side by side for different purposes.

I am trying to think of a dog breed that maintains its original use and also the same shaped dogs still show. Can't think of one. Kelpies, Blueys, GSD, huskys, beagles, malamutes, border collies, labs - all very different and not really interchangeable. I know some show-style huskies can pull a sled but not really with the big guys. Actually I did know a malamute breeder who had many show champions and also raced their dogs but I don't think mals are really race dogs now days anyway compared with Alaskan Huskys. Maybe GSPs or vislas - don't know much about them. But I guess beauty (ie show dogs) and also usefulness at the job (ie work dogs) is not set in stone (and either are standards) and everyone has differing opinions. So what one breeder strives for another will reject so everything is bound to diverge. Like already said, even within a show groups and work groups. Nothing will change - and can't now anyway as it is too far down the track of dog breeds. But unless show dogs are forced to perform rigorous testing at the original use and if they fail they are desexed and unless working dogs are forced to compete in the show circuit and if fail they get desexed, the breeds will continue to diversify. Just looking at the GSD, to bring the breed together the two camps would need to decide on a standard and not just words but the perfect GSD from historic or recent photos- and both head towards that. Not happening. Then decide on a test that was reasonable. That is what schulzhund was for, but I doubt many show-lines could pass, or even many work-line dogs as well. What one group thought was reasonable, the other would reject. Plus on top of this, we use dogs for many different purposes today and the work-line ones wouldn't suit many in todays environment, nor show-lines suit the working environment. I think we just need to the differences and appreciate they are bred for different purposes.

I was just noting that your history of the GSD from a previous post only applies to West German showlines and is very different to the working line history. Yes, Chris always bred for security, police, sch, protection and family pets etc and I don't think would ever show dogs in the ring. Why would anyone expect to compete a workingline dog against a showline dog at a show for showline dogs and why would anyone ever compete a showline dog against a working line dog in a working event? I guess you could but you would get nowhere. Incidentally, I followed the bloodlines of a couple of people advertising 'straight backed old style dogs' and they seemed to generally be showline dogs with a bit of working put in a couple of generations ago to give them stronger colour and the back they want in the dogs they breed. I would never buy one of this type of breeding but each to their own.

Here is a good website with much more knowledge than me about the DDR GSD. http://www.ddrlegends.com/nobleheritage.html

Alpha Bet , you have completely missed out the history of the DDR GSD. No saying you are wrong just to clarify with other interested parties understand that that history doesn't apply to working line shepherds. If you look at mid 1940's you will see dogs almost identical to a good DDR dog today - except some are breeding too big now and think bigger is better. If you look at dogs from the Von Forell kennel you will find those dogs. For info for others - after the war when East stayed communist and West turned democratic the breed split. East kept their state run program and bred to type of the day - that hasn't changed much even today. West started refining the breed for show purposes. Many great dogs were culled - mainly dark faced ones as they were considered too vicious looking for the ring, produced a more fluid dog, taller dog, better moving dog, more beautiful dog and mostly a softer dog. Hence why most show lines don't come in the range of colours seen in DDR shepherds - sables, greys, bi-colour, black. Shorter, stockier, straighter backed, less fluid moving, generally better bite, more drive when in prey-mode and sharper but calmer when not (mostly). I am not sure when the first DDR came into Aus but will find out. I got my first Von Forell shepherd in 2002 and Chris said he had been breeding about 25 years (I think) so he would have started in 1975. Or there abouts. But not sure about that. Dogs didn't come from DDR as it was very difficult to remove a dog from the State run program (I'm guessing in the late 1980's or 1990 when the country was unified again.) But snuck out via other countries generally. What I would like to know- is the blood lines of the so called 'straight backed old style shepherds'? Are these show-lines bred not to standard or working lines mixed with show lines. If anyone has one of these dogs and it maintains a pedigree I would love to see it.

Working line GSDs are not necessarily not suitable as family pets. I have met many who are successfully family pets and as laid back as any dog. Even more so than many dogs. My Von Forell GSD dog wasn't hyped at all, in fact they are not meant to be unless asked to go into prey drive. I did man work with my boy and he was calm before the bite and calm afterwards. As a family pet who helped raise my daughter from birth to 5years old (daughter not dog) he never put a foot wrong. But go to good breeders and ask for what you need. They come in very different temperaments and working line guys tend to know their dogs and match them to suit the purpose. Its the bogans breeding with the biggest and most aggressive that you need to stay clear of.