Loreley

thanks guys much appreciated. Yes I agree with the getting her attention & respect before walking out, but hubby of course had to throw a spanner in the works and say well she's gunna go nuts without exercise. I'm use to koolies so dogs around the heeler size and she's a tad bigger than that (like more than twice that size) She might be only 25kgs but she is lean and the size of a good sized german shepherd maybe taller, I have this sneaking suspicion that she still has some growing to do yet Will see if I can get a decent photo tomorrow of my two together to give you an indication of her size. Nekhbet been doing that since we got home, basic stuff like name, sit, come, and found out tonight with a bit of help she will drop so they must have been starting to teach her that at the shelter as well which is good. She's keen and generally responsive so that's a plus for both of us. I do have a martingale collar so might try that tomorrow in the backyard to see how she responds to that. The other question I have, my daughter has 2 dogs that usually visit fairly regularly, I have said no doggy visitors for now, is this a correct move? She is use to playing with dogs at the shelter out in the big yard, and my boy so far is not overly impressed but is tolerating her. What do you think?

I met her Friday so that would be a no. I have found a contact that is trained in Big dogs that lives locally, so will be having a nice long chat before I do anything that might send her going backwards

She is eager to please and is now starting to respond to her name, funny how as soon as I post, she starts to comply, just like making a Dr's appointment . Ok martingale collar will do, I think I already have one of those on the rack of spares. Will give the tether a try tomorrow. She's a sweet girl, just got to get my head around a different breeds thinking I recon. Thanks

The new foster is a big and strong girl (around 25kgs) is approx. 2 years, and has had no lead training, so until I can get decent control on her I can't take her out for a walk, she is strong enough to literally pull me over. She was listed as a Koolie x, but my thoughts would be Dane x Bull Arab maybe (or Dane x something). I tried a halti on her today and she fights it like there is no tomorrow. Any other dog that I have introduced the halti to has resisted but given in fairly quickly, not this girl. So I managed to get it on her and praised with treats this lasted only a couple of minutes as soon as you stop the treats or cuddling she physically drags it off. I was planning to do a desensitisation process until she accepts it. She has been residing in the RSPCA for the last 6 months and can sit and drop, but won't respond to her name, or much else. I was told that she was cat friendly but there is also the worrying issue that she chased our cat this morning (I'm really hoping this is not an indication of future problems or I will have to look at moving her onto someone else. So where do I start? Obviously her name recognition, but I also need to be able to get her out to get rid of the excess energy in a safe manner, so to the halti training? or is there a better way? Any thoughts or ideas would be most appreciated.

Have sent her a few links and suggestions, hopefully she will find what she is looking for.

Koolie Rescue has a number of dogs (male and female) that would fit this bill perfectly. Have sent you a PM.

Good point, I know that she is an allergy sufferer but don't think that its specific to dogs, she has had dogs before but quite some time ago, so I would assume that she is just trying to be cautious about the breed. Will again pass the info on though thanks and will also check out CPR site as well.

thanks for that didn't even think of that page have passed it on.

I have had an acquaintance contact me that is looking for a small non or low shedding dog, she only works part time and has an 11 year old daughter. She doesn't want a pup, is looking for a dog from 1 to about 3 to 5 years of age. Over anxious puppies need not apply please, generally calm and happy disposition is whats needed for her particular situation. Living in Canberra, dog will be sleeping inside, have inside/outside access. Back yard has lots of shaded areas and secure fencing. Loving home with lots of cuddles guaranteed. She has made contact with a couple of rescue groups in recent months and has been told by one that unless she is prepared to adopt 2 animals, she wouldn't be considered, another didn't reply to her enquiry. Does anyone have a furry that would fit this bill please??

so how did RSPCA become so all powerful? they would have originally been no different to any other rescue group in the beginning.

She will need to take a good look at the definition of someone who is operating as a shelter to see if that's what she comes under in that regard as she may come under a community foster carer depending on where and how she sources her rescue animals here Ok so if the Rescue Group fits into the Community Foster Care, she would then apply a licence under that, then a permit to Council based on that is that correct? Is there a contact point within the Vict Government for all this, where she could contact to make sure that she complys with all the rules and applies for the right licences and permits?

and if its so complicated how on earth do you make sure you comply? there is such a spaghetti of rules overlapping each other, how do you honestly know what you need to apply for? Ive been trolling the vic gov site for 2 days and other than a really bit headache, there is no way I could even think about the possibility of setting up a breeding set or a rescue shelter.

So is a Kennel License different to a Rescue Shelter Licence then?

Sums it up perfectly... Yep and that's why I'm confused.

Yes I've seen that on a number of occasions, and have heard about how some of their own staff are treated.

So basically, as long as they claim they believed an animal was in immediate danger, they can break and enter and be within their rights. Cool, huh They have to be able to be able to substantiate that threat to life in a court, so they are suppose to be very careful how and when they use it. Well that's the theory anyway.

Not withstanding this particular person's situation, I have done considerable reading over the last couple of nights since starting this thread, and must admit that what this person has been told and what the actual laws indicate appear quite different, but I'll get to that in a minute. As a new comer, the whole side of this is a considerably daunting thing to even look into to be honest and it would certainly make me wonder why any of you go through this process at all. Under Victorian State law - if you go through the process and expense (and from what I can work out it isn't a small amount of money) of becoming a 'registered' breeder, why then would you bother if all you have to do to get around it is to become a member of Dogs VIC or other listed organisation and apply to be exempted (and I presume effectively classed as a hobby breeder I think), with that you can have up to 10 breeding animals. So why would you bother? So you have been approved to have 10 breeding animals, is there a council ANYWHERE that will allow 10 animals? and if not why then would they bother to put an actual number in there at all if their laws are going to be superceded by council regulations, further restricting the numbers. Then you have this particular Council's regulations which state that if you have more than 2 dogs, you will require a permit from Council. Ok I get that, it makes sense so far, until you get to the part that the Ranger told this person. "You can apply for a permit from council, but it will only allow an additional dog" So if this is the case why would council not say so in any of their documentation? When you read all the literature on the permit system you are led to believe that the number of animals you are applying for will be heard and decided on based on the evidence and circumstances you present with your application. If this is not the case then why not openly say 2 dog limit, approval of a permit will allow an additional dog, and again I go back to the Victorian State laws, why bother to go through all that to get registration for 10 dogs if you're never going to be able to have that many? I know multi level laws are hard, but to me neither the state legislation nor the council regulations are worth the paper they are written on. Oh and then I started to look into what you need to do to become classed as a rescue shelter, I haven't waded through that one yet. This is a good discussion, learning heaps with lots of peoples different perspectives and experience, thanks everyone for your input.

My concern is that they do not address the puppy farm issue which is what they are suppose to be doing it for, why not just make it illegal for petshops to sell puppies & kittens? and if taking in rescue dogs will then put you over the 'limit' that will then deem you to be a registerable business. The registration process in Victoria, I believe is hideous and expensive, if you happen to fail stage 3 you may have to start the whole process again and pay for each stage from what I can work out, but I'm still trying to get my head around all the government gobbledegook and they don't make it easy. from what I have read so far, it basically says that its ok as long as we look the other way, this was brought up in a number of the responses.

Press Release from the Vic Government Site. Note the phone number at the bottom, I will be contacting them tomorrow to get a copy of the draft as it stands and will upload it when I get home. Extra round of consultation for new breeding code Wednesday, 08 May 2013 Agriculture and Food Security Minister Peter Walsh has announced a second round of consultation on the draft Code of Practice for the Operation of Breeding and Rearing Establishments. Mr Walsh said the Victorian Coalition Government was listening to concerns about the current form of the draft Code and wanted to ensure a thorough consultation process took place. When finalised, the Code will specify updated minimum standards of accommodation, management and care required for dogs and cats housed in breeding and rearing establishments. “Public consultation is an important part of the process of updating the Code to ensure everyone gets a fair hearing, and to ensure animal welfare standards and community expectations are met,” Mr Walsh said. “During this first consultation period, the Coalition Government has been made aware that a number of stakeholders have serious concerns, including people who breed working dogs. “We would like to work through those concerns, and providing a second opportunity for public consultation will help us work with stakeholders to resolve the issues. “The current consultation period will end on May 13, as originally advertised, and then a revised draft Code will be released in late June or early July for the second round of public consultation,” Mr Walsh said. “The final Code is now not expected to be completed until the end of August this year. “This will give stakeholders extra time to participate in the process, and it will also provide the Department of Environment and Primary Industries (DEPI) sufficient time to consider the second round of submissions,” Mr Walsh said. Feedback on the draft Code can be emailed to DEPI via the website www.dpi.vic.gov.au For telephone inquiries call 136186.

So far I have not been able to locate the actual document they are referring to, but below is a link to the released responses and there are plenty. https://web3.dpi.vic.gov.au/pet_consultation/index.php/comment/commented_authors

What being legal, restricting the maximum numbers of say dogs you are allowed to have on a specific property across the state, of course they can. There are council limits in various parts of the country, in the ACT if you're not a registered breeder you cannot have any more than 4 dogs. All they are doing in Victoria is extending this thinking to the breeding community.

This breeder had the visit only a day ago no it is not a rumour I wish it was. I am still trying to locate a copy of the proposed legislation.

This breeder is the 2nd or 3rd that I have heard of that 'has had a friendly visit'. They are basically giving people a heads up, this is what is going to happen, they are so smug that this legislation is going to pass that they are trying to enforce it before it has even been stamped. What gets me is that this is bring brought in to 'control puppy farms'. Now don't get me wrong, I'm all for shutting down puppy farms, but those that run them do not comply with the laws that are currently in place (animal welfare, etc) so why would they comply with these new laws? The process of compliance and seizing would have to be the same as previously and we know how well that works. All this will do is gut the rescue group network because a lot of them are linked to responsible breeders that genuinely care about the breeds they breed. I can see no win on this from the ethical breeder perspective. I am yet to read the legislation fully but at the very least, they need to amend the following conditions: The number of animals only applies to animals of minimum breeding age (2 years), does not apply to animals that are desexed, does not apply to animals that have been taken into foster care (because they will be desexed before being rehomed). This is at the very minimum. And then MAKE IT BLOODY ILLEGAL TO SELL ANIMALS TO PETSHOPS AND IN THE PAPER WITHOUT A BREEDER REGISTRATION NUMBER for god's sake!!! that's all that actually had to do. The animal kill rate will sky rocket!!! I am not a breeder, but I would assume that this will heavily affect your bottom line financially and affect the price you put on pups also. The whole thing makes me sick.

This post has been done on the main DOL general info board, but I thought it prudent to copy it here for you just in case. I have been informed that a friend of mine and breeder has been targeted by the RSPCA regarding the new laws that have not even been passed yet. They came out, inspected her premises and both the council ranger and rspca rep advised her the system is wonderful, but if they have more than the allowable number of dogs (even desexed, disabled or in foster care with them) they will be seized and destroyed, there was no if or but. These are healthy, well adjusted dogs, some in their twilight years enjoying retirement, breeding/working dogs, and young ones waiting to be homed. If you are a breeder in Victoria, take care, read up on the new laws so that you are prepared !! Oh by the way, this breeder was identified because she involved in the rescue scene, and had taken dogs in when at risk. So I can only assume that they are wanting to remove any breeders that are connected to rescue groups, talk about cutting your nose off and spiting your face. You all need to unite, regardless of which breed you breed, of petty differences you may have had, if this law is passed not only will you be restricted in how many dogs you are allowed on your property at all times, but you will basically be unable to take any of your dogs back if the need arises as a responsible breeder generally does for fear that you will lose one of your breeding stock as a result. Seriously consider writing/emailing your state rep and their counter part in government. Get in touch with the newspapers, the TV and the Radio - you have to stop this madness.

This post has been done on the main DOL general info board, but I thought it prudent to copy it here for you just in case. I have been informed that a friend of mine and breeder has been targeted by the RSPCA regarding the new laws that have not even been passed yet. They came out, inspected her premises and both the council ranger and rspca rep advised her the system is wonderful, but if they have more than the allowable number of dogs (even desexed, disabled or in foster care with them) they will be seized and destroyed, there was no if or but. These are healthy, well adjusted dogs, some in their twilight years enjoying retirement, breeding/working dogs, and young ones waiting to be homed. If you are a breeder in Victoria, take care, read up on the new laws so that you are prepared !! Oh by the way, this breeder was identified because she involved in the rescue scene, and had taken dogs in when at risk. So I can only assume that they are wanting to remove any breeders that are connected to rescue groups, talk about cutting your nose off and spiting your face. You all need to unite, regardless of which breed you breed, of petty differences you may have had, if this law is passed not only will you be restricted in how many dogs you are allowed on your property at all times, but you will basically be unable to take any of your dogs back if the need arises as a responsible breeder generally does for fear that you will lose one of your breeding stock as a result. Seriously consider writing/emailing your state rep and their counter part in government. Get in touch with the newspapers, the TV and the Radio - you have to stop this madness.