BDJ

Thank you Alpha Bet for your information - before your post I was already in the 'not in a position to know enough to make any sort of judgement' camp - and your points have only confirmed that. Interesting that one poster had time to respond to a 'cat fight', but not to your detailed post Also, for those who say 'they should have evacuated' - where to ??? There are at least 5 other boarding establishments that I know of in the fire area (and there are probably more) - so if everyone evacuated, then there are 500-600 animals that need to be put somewhere for upwards of a week (it is still not safe) Beyond tragic for all involved - the time for answers is once people have FACTS, not before

Hi guys, Quite possibly a stupid question, but how do they 'introduce' the colour in to the different breeds? I understand that there are recessive genes etc, and many breeds have 'throw back' colours/dilute which crop up from time to time, but if a breed does not have X (in this case blue) colour in it, how do people suddenly get it? - do they sneakily introduce another breed and go 'WOW - look what turned up', or do these breeds have blue behind them somewhere in the pedigree and instead of desexing and placing them out as pets when they crop up, does someone line breed it to become predominant? ta

A suggestion is to go to one of the horse suppliers (eg : Horseland etc) and look at one of the spray products used for horses that eat timber. They are relatively inexpensive - they don't damage timber or paintwork, but taste foul :-). And being a spray, it is relatively easy to cover a large area Not sure if I agree with the 'the timber looks dodgy, ring the landlord and don't mention the dog' theory - one of the reasons that some landlords say 'no pets' is because of previous knowledge or where an animal has done damage and the owner has not acknowledge it. I agree, the timber may be old and brittle, but hopefully with honest on both sides a fair outcome is possible

thanks guys - have had a chat with 'Miss Squish' and it looks like she will be helping us out, again, thanks guys

thanks Anne - I just dont know who are the 'good' rescues I have no problems with a 'good' rescue financially benefitting from him (sorry, could not find a better way of writing that) - he would require no vet work etc, would be easily rehomeable and is very appealing etc. And rescues need to have dogs which leave them financially in front so that they can afford to look after the dogs who require $$$ and they place out at a loss. But I dont want him to be a cheap and easy turnover (again, cant think of better wording) for a less than ideal rescue who only take the easy ones and will see him as a quick buck Would appreciate any recommendations, ta

Hi all, I dont have all the details, but thought I would get it out there as I have no idea what is involved. My mother purchased a Sheltie 12 months ago - circumstances changed and she needed to find him a new home. Contacted his breeder who may have been able to take him back, but was not especially keen (I have no probs with this, he did not wipe his hands of the situation, but was more than happy for mum to place him out rather than him (the breeder) take him back in to what would have been a completely different situation (much busier, noisier, 'outside with 8 other dogs' environment) to rehome him from there. Mum did everything right - desexed him before advertising him and screened the home, placed a reasonable (not exorbitent but enough to make people stop and think) price on him etc. He was placed with a lovely older lady, inside dog etc, with the offer of 'if he does not settle in a week bring him back and she will return his purchase price'. Several calls, everyone happy etc, etc. After 2-3 months the new owner has just rung with 'my health has deteriorated, I am going in to hospital, you need to come and get him this morning'. Mum can take him back, but only very temporary. She is going out there this morning and will know more later. But, if she does need to pick him up, she will need to find a home for him quickly (as in within days). I am after constructive assistance - I am guessing there will be some rants about people considering dogs to be disposible, but that is not the case. He is a happy, well adjusted, obedient, housetrained good citizen - used to the dog park, beach, daily walks, other dogs, cats, inside and outside etc. He is very shy with new people - after 15 mins they are his best friend, and not skittish in anyway around people he knows, but read the standard of 'reserved with strangers' and took it to heart. Contacting the club, and his breeder are both options, but I would rather not. I dont know the 'rescue' sceen in Adelaide, and dont see him as a true rescue, but thought that with their contacts and network, it may be possible for him to go in to foster and be placed through there. He would need no vet work, behavioural work etc - he is truly a lovely dog that due to no fault of his (or anyone else) is in a situation where he needs to find a new home to spend the next 15 years with Any ideas?

I agree with the 'why was the mating allowed to occur in the first instance', and also with the concept that it should not have been a public spectacle (disrespectful to the giraffe), but ....... just throwing something out there............. What is the difference between a lion eating a cow or a giraffe ?? The lions were going to need to be fed, so an animal was going to lose its life. Whilst most zoos do utilised aged or injured stock, I am sure that there are fit and healthy animals each day used to feed the carnivores. (will duck now as it may not be a popular thought)

very difficult, some people can refuse to understand - it becomes choice after a while (some ignorance is because of lack of knowledge, some is because of refusal to accept knowledge). If you are in a position that you need to get a pup in a short time frame, perhaps you can expand your criteria - be it colour, gender or geography. It would be tough starting from scratch when you dont have a relationship with a breeder, but I am sure that if you demonstrate everything that a responsible breeder is looking for (good home, commitment, willingness to learn and love) then I imagine that if they had a pup available then they would let you have it. It is possible that there arent a lot of litters available over summer, and that most pups are already spoken for, but I dont understand why some have a perception that if someone is looking for a pup now/ASAP it means they are irresponsible. Some people dont like being without a dog, and some people do research quietly and then when they decide, they are ready then. Not saying that rushing out and wanting one NOW (and if I cant have a good one, I will take anything - so a petshop becomes acceptable) attitude is good. It is not. But for example when I wanted a sheltie I was very keen to get one. I was in a good position because I was raised in a home that bred and showed shelties and knew the breed intimately. I really wanted a blue, but as expected it was possible/probable that it could involve a wait of a year or more. Temperament is everything to me and I love an outgoing confident dog. But I also like a bit of pretty, so the wait could have been even longer :-) I had my feelers out and in the meantime saw an add on DOL for a sable. It was a breeder I knew 30 years ago so gave him a call and 2 days later Kennedy was home. Yes it was amazingly fast from first call to pup being home, but I had the benefit of knowing the breed, knowing his line (albiet the dogs I knew were 6 generations back), and him remembering me (so he was more than happy for me to have one). So from having a preference for a blue bitch, I now have a sable dog - but gosh, I have the most amazing temperament, quite a bit of glamour (pity about the heavy ears :D ) and a companion I hope to have for 15 years. So the message of my ramble is to demonstrate you have done your homework, and never compramise on what is vital, but other things are flexible.

quote ..................If you can find someone you know who is willing to take him on and let you visit him, then I don't see what the issue is. From what I've read you have raised a well rounded, socialised dog and I doubt he'd have any troubles coping. We had a show dog come and go between houses for a couple of years and he had no issues at all, he now lives with the person who was handling him and is happy to see either of us at any time. People a turning it into a far bigger deal than it really is, simply because you have considered a change in lifestyle and circumstances that do not include your dog residing with you. They are pissed about that, hence why it's such a big hoo-har............... I agree with the above. Some dogs would cope, some would not. I have seen it work out well, but for some dogs it would turn them in to a basket case. I don't follow individual people on here so much, therefore dont know the OP at all, but am amazed at some of the assumptions made on here, and more amazed at the 'but tell me what your very personal situation is'. Sheesh - when did it become ok to expect people to write private details on a totally public forum which can be accessed by millions of people from around the world. And rehoming a dog if done in a responsible manner is not the end of the world. Abusing a dog, opening the gate and throwing it out on the street, getting a new dog every week and taking the previous dog to the pound because it piddled on the floor last night - yep, all irresponsible, unacceptable (and in some cases downright cruel). But making a well thought out decision, that some times involves putting yourself first and resulting in an animal being placed in a different (great) home is not the end of the world. Dogs live for 10-18 years, people live for 60 - 80 years. No one can commit or know what they will be doing in 5 - 10 years, circumstances can change totally in that time. So can responsibilities. Opportunities can as well. And these things dont always wait for the best time. As I said, I know nothing about the OP, his circumstances, opportunities or responsibilities. But I do know that there are jobs where having a dog is not practical - it may involve travel (even going interstate for 2-3 days every month or so - if you live alone what do you do with your dog - send it to a kennel, ask a neighbour or friend to mind it (if you have a suitable option)??),,,,,,,, it may just involve long hours - I left home this morning at 5 am and if I am a very lucky person I will be home by 8pm tonight. I am lucky I live in a house, and there are others at home. But if I lived alone, or lived in an apartment, then having a dog would not be practical/fair. So the end of my ramble is this - ask how your dog has coped with any other transitions (if you have gone on holidays etc) and how good would any new home be (and with family/friends you should know them)

another vote for the scissors I have had reason to tackle two dogs who were too matted for brushing to be comfortable for them, but I didn't want it to be a #1 clipped (with associated chance of clipper burns, dog feeling 'weird' with being able to feel everything so much more etc) Both dogs accepted the scissors extremely well. When I first finished them they looked crap, as I am certainly no professional groomer - so they had tufts etc. But overall the coat was about 1cm long. I then gave them a bath (much easier with virtually no coat) and tidied up any obvious tufts etc, and just needed to run a comb or light brush over them. Within a couple of weeks both dogs looked great and there was no stress or pressure.

another vote for the scissors I have had reason to tackle two dogs who were too matted for brushing to be comfortable for them, but I didn't want it to be a #1 clipped (with associated chance of clipper burns, dog feeling 'weird' with being able to feel everything so much more etc) Both dogs accepted the scissors extremely well. When I first finished them they looked crap, as I am certainly no professional groomer - so they had tufts etc. But overall the coat was about 1cm long. I then gave them a bath (much easier with virtually no coat) and tidied up any obvious tufts etc, and just needed to run a comb or light brush over them. Within a couple of weeks both dogs looked great and there was no stress or pressure.

thanks for the answers - kinda makes sense (it has been beaten), but I still find it strange that it was beaten by dogs (except the afghan BOB) that it would not be competing against. No issues, I dont show, just seemed a little weird to me (and I got totally confused when the smooth chi placed in group, there was then an award for 'best chi' so the judge then looked at the smooth and the longcoat and gave it to the longcoat ???? - he had just placed the smooth over the longcoat in the group line up, then 60 seconds later put the longcoat over the smooth) Interesting question about the reverse - for a normal show, if you dont win group, can you go in your age (still a beaten dog)

Hi all, Am hoping someone can help me. I went to the Adelaide Royal yesterday, and read in the catalogue the rules around elimination. I didn't pay a whole lot of attention to it, but it came up yesterday and I could not make sense of it. If a puppy wins BOB, but does not win Puppy in group, why is it ineligible for Best in Group (yesterday the beagle that won best of breed was a puppy - went in the ring for puppy in group and was beaten by the afghan puppy. It was then ineligible for best in group.) I understand that it could not win Best In Group - by definition the BOB Afghan had already beaten it (BOB afghan beat the afghan puppy, afghan puppy beats beagle puppy, therefore BOB afghan has beaten beagle). But the rest of the group had not beaten in. And the group is placed to fourth. So theoretically, could not the afghan have won group and the beagle finished second (or third) in group ?? Not disputing that it needed to happen as per the rules (and no one else seemed surprised), I just don't know what I am missing ?? (the question is just about the rules, not the placings yesterday and who should have placed where :) ) PS - congrats to everyone who made it yesterday, and everyone who went home with an extra ribbon. I saw some lovely dogs, but what I was more impressed with were the temperaments. Happy, confident dogs everywhere, and most of them seemed to be having fun (especially the Lowchen puppy, she was a nutcase (said in the nicest possible way - for me that is a compliment))

yep - may have been bitten in the back of the neck, but given the best response time for anyone is 1 second from thought to action (combined thought process, muscle response time etc) I am guessing it is possible the dog could have moved its head (and neck) ???? - just guessing it is in the realm of possibility And I am fairly sure there are other times that police can enter a property - going by your rules I can just imagine the scenario - mass murderer on the lose, causing havoc etc, etc - police get warrant to arrest him at 5 smith st, guy runs out the back door and jumps the fence to number 7 - would you like the cops to politely knock on number 7 and hope the person answers before the guy has jumped the fences of number 9, 11 and 13? - or would you prefer them all to get back in their car and return to the office to get a warrant (and would that be for number 7, 9, 11 or 13?) I didnt say it was justified or not - I wasn't there. I just believe that sitting in a lovely quiet world and expecting the baddies to be nice and sensible, and wear a sign stating they are a baddie so that the cops and other members of the public know that is probably not going to happen. Again - very sad the dog was shot. But no one knows if it was justified or not. And calling someone (aka the cop) a big girls blouse is as rude and unnecessary as stating that every dog with a big square head should be shot. Perhaps the cop had other options - perhaps not.

I gave up reading this on page 5 - so if I have missed anything since then, that is why Is it sad that a dog was shot - yes Is it understandable the owner is devastated - of course Was it necessary to shoot the dog - how the hell do we know Are some cops idiots - yes (but so are some members of the public) But for the bloody idiots (and yes I mean those words) that are having a hissy fit, think about this : - cops have every right to enter any area of a property if they have due reason - front yard, back yard, in the house and in the ceiling - there are regulations on when they are armed, it is not an 'option' for them - things happen bloody fast. dogs attack fast, harmless people pull a gun etc - think 1.5 seconds to go from no gun to one pointed at you - no cop knows what they are walking in to - how many times do cops get shot at 'everyday' traffic stops, or whilst attending a 'normal sounding' call out - it happens - how many of you talk/write about having a strange dog rush you/attack your dog and write 'it came from no where, it was so fast, one second I saw it the next it was on me/us' - dogs are used (by some people, usually the less polite members of society that cops need to deal with) as WEAPONS - they are trained to defend and attack - and like it or lump it, bully and big breeds are what are used - are owners/neighbours really the best judge of a dogs character ?? - again, how many threads are filled with 'I am sick of people letting their aggressive dog come near me and then telling me its friendly' or stories about a dog biting and people saying 'he never did that before - and lastly - yep, if I was walking in to an unknown situation, where I had been told to go because there was a problem, I would feel it appropriate to remove any possible threat that could cause an issue. Hopefully it would not involve shooting anything, but if there is a split second situation where violence and danger could erupt in a second, then ......... The above comments are not aimed at the people involved (household, police or dog) - they are in response to the 'awww, was the big blouse fffrightened of a doggie', and 'no one has the right to enter my property'

I would not enter a yard which had a dog (or dogs) in it unless the owner was present and advised it was ok - and that is regardless of the breed or behaviour (unless of course it was a close family/friend where the dog knew me extremely well) To me it is common sense and common courtesy. Any dog can bite, and as said, any dog can be teritorial or have things which upset it. Locking a gate is obvious, but not always done. If you enter my house from a certain side it is not locked - but you need to go through a roller door and through 2 other gates to get to the dogs. It is the main point of entrance used by everyone and locking it would be beyond a pain for everyday access. I found it interesting the number of people who said they would make a determination on the dogs attitude and if they felt all was ok then they would go in. Would be interesting to see what the response would be if the post was written along the lines of 'would you be cranky if you had two dogs visible in the back yard and someone randomly entered and cracked it when my dogs rushed them barking ...... it happened to me and now I have the council coming around wanting to check about how secure my dogs were ....' I may be wrong, but I am guessing that the response to that would be '..... if your dogs were secured behind a fence then no one has the right to enter private property ..' (not saying the responses were right or wrong, just thinking that having the same scenario (dogs behind a fence which didnt happen to be locked) and asking two different questions often results in completely different answers.

thanks for the answers - and yes, it was Ridgehaven :-) I have no issues with working with food, but don't want to at the moment. He is less than 4 months old, and is more than happy working without it - at the moment it would only be another distraction to be worked through. In a couple of months time when he develops a little more mentally and emotionally I will definitely be using it. I was more asking about the concept of 'everyone using food and other people offering dogs treats'. I have seen it at dog parks, at the vets and have heard about it on other threads in this forum - instructors or other members just giving treats. thanks

Hi all, Sorry for the vague topic, but I have a couple of questions and was hoping to get some general info using the anonymity of the internet :-) I did obedience about 20 years ago - up to and including UD titles. Stepped away and haven't been near a club or a ring since then. But I now have a 15 week old Sheltie baby and wow - I forgot what it was like to have a smart, trainable dog who loves to learn - so far have done a total of 8 lessons (longest lesson has been 4 mins) - and the first one was lead training :-) and in that time we now have - automatic sit - acceptable heal position (well as acceptable as you expect from a baby) - drop on command (still a bit wonky) - 45 sec sit and drop stays Recalls are purely calling him when he is off playing and he comes to me flat chat with a grin on his face All work is with praise - he is the greediest little devil I have ever seen, so not going near food at all (apart from the free range recall) - he would jump through fire for a play and a cuddle and you literally see him squirm with delight when he gets a told what a clever boy he is and gets a pat and a rub. Sorry for the drivel, but he is an absolute angel who loves life and everyone in it But back to my questions :-) From what I have heard and read, I have the below perceptions, and was wondering if they were right or wrong. - all clubs train with food !! (my concern is that my boy is the most food driven pup I have had - if he thought that food was available every thought would disappear and I would have a blithering idiot on my hands) - instructors touch your dog and will take it off your hands in the middle of a class if they want to (something I see as a NO GO - damage can be done so quickly) I would also love to know what a 'longtermers' thoughts are for comparing then to now. I have been told that you cant touch your dog between classes in trials, it is more subdued now etc, etc I don't want to give the impression I thought the old days were perfect, it wasn't, just keen to know the differences I don't know if I will go to a club or become involved at all, we are just having fun at the moment. There is a club quite local, and have watched from the side, but was put off by there being 4 or 5 dogs tied up who barked loudly and constantly for an hour - and given the park is right next to houses and it was 10 am on a Sunday morning I thought it was a bit rich - no one from the club made any attempt to distract or quieten the dogs, and left me wondering about the club as a whole Any thoughts, suggestions or comparisons would be appreciated, ta

yes, there must be merle to get merle, which is where sable merles can pop up unexpectedly down the track if you think you have been doing S/S matings and dont realise aSM was introduced 2 or 3 generations ago and in fact you have been doing SM/S matings since (a dog can be a sable merle, yet it not be visible (dog 'looks' sable). So if you do a S/M mating, you can get a SM which is visally a Sable. If you breed from that thinking you are doing a S/S mating you are acually doing a SM/S mating). I have only seen two SM (result of an escape artist bitch). One was clearly a sable merle (very pretty but thats another story :D ) and the other looked like a normal shaded sable. It was only when you saw it in bright sunshine that there was a slight anomoly in the coat colour.

thanks for the responses guys The thing with a sable/merle mating is that the offsping can be a sable merle (which is a colour not recognised by the standard). You can get a dog which is a visual sable, but is actually a sable merle. You then run the risk of having a sable merle offspring down the track when you dont expect it. Interesting that people now work with that 'risk' on visual info only and it has not been reduced through genetic testing (the websites I have seen the sable/merle matings on are quite 'big name' who actively show and breed). Also as a sign of the times is the thought about merle/merle matings. It is now considered unethical (and I think against codes of ethics), yet we did at least half a dozen merle/merle matings, never had a white pup (oreven a mismarked blue), never had an issue - all pups were happy and healthy with no 'defects'. But at the same time any merle/merle matng was surrounded by tri/merle matings and I do know someone else at the time would do multiple generation merle/merle mating and 'bucket'(excuse the old fashioned crass term) the whites so with ethics like that around I dont say I disagree with the new thinking.

Hi all, I have not put this in the breed forums as I don't want it to appear a critisism, it is just a question (but if it needs to be moved please let me know :-)) Many years ao (around 30) I showed collies and shelties. At that time a sable merle mating was considered a huge sin. It may have happened behind closed doors (ie : may have had a bitch that was never shown so no one knew its colour), but if there was even a rumour the general chat was 'never use that line because you dont know whe sable merle will pop up). But I have noticed it a bit lately - matings and pups are advertised with the parents colour proudly noted as a sable to blue merle mating, and have also noticed a pup being advertised as a sable merle. I checked the standard and still only the three colours noted, so thought it may be that genetic testing now allows more knowledge of what colour the resultant pups can actually be Does anyone know? I am just curious

I think it depends on the breed, and what their natural 'state' is If you have a working or highly energetic breed, then I agree that something that works their brain, or involves lots of changes etc will tire them quicker than trying to run them tired. Otherwise you simply end up with a very fit dog :-) But if your dog is naturally quiet and leads a sedintary life style, then a quick run or change of scenary can work wonders. My mothers dog is naturally fairly quiet and enjoys a potter at the dog park, quite stroll etc. He will participate in zoomies if invited, but after 5 mins is quite pooped (and no he is not overweight or unhealthy, just not used to running). He is quite obedient for what he knows (come, leave, heel etc) but has never done any obedience above that level, and without being nasty he is not the brightest plate in the cupboard, so teaching him anything takes quite a bit of patience etc. And with him, there is no need (he is loved etc, but is in a quiet household and his level of training makes him a wonderful citizen in his world)

For me personally I would make every attempt to take the animals, but understand it is not always possible. And having them in emergency accomodation could be disasterous. The stress in those places would be terrible, and a mild mannered dog could become territorial and protective of its owner, let alone a DA dog. Have even 2 of these in an emergency evac area (community hall etc) and it would be a nightmare The caravan idea is the best one I have heard of in years, and would work for everything from birds to cats, dogs, fish, and probably ok for a sheep or pig. However, I believe it would need to be registered and maintained. Tyres, axles, bearings etc all perish or cease if not used or maintained regularly. Even taking it for a few mile run each month and a 6/12m check up at the local mechanics would ensure that in the moment of emergency it will actually be towable.

Not defending - not excusing - totally indefensible - Not defending - not excusing - totally indefensible - Not defending - not excusing - totally indefensible BUT ...... Buddy was up on a bench attached to the wall, like a shelf. He was attached by a short choker chain. Im not sure of the exact height of the bench. I want to go and see one day but not yet. What sort of person wouldn't see the very obvious danger in leaving him there alone while they went outside for lunch (quote) It is possible it was bad work practice/inattention, rather than not seeing the danger. I have no idea of the set up, but it is possible that two poeple are in the room, one working on dog steps out believing the other would keep an eye out, second person does not see the dog/realise the responsibility had been left to them and leaves the room as well. It has happened with children (mum thinks dad is looking after the child, dad thinks mum is) It does not make anyone feel better. The only reason I have written this is that if someone works in or knows a grooming salon it may be a reminder that tragic things can happen due to bad communication and non attention to best practice, as well as through not realising/acting on dangers. Again - Not defending - not excusing - totally indefensible - Not defending - not excusing - totally indefensible - Not defending - not excusing - totally indefensible. Please don't think I am in anyway reducing any responsibility or horror at what happened.

Firstly - sincere hugs and thoughts to you. I have always considered myself fairly strong - but this has knocked me for a six. Can't even begin to impagine how you are feeling. I am not someone who complains, I usually just 'vote with my feet', but in this case I would be making so much noise to anyone and everyone. Great that you have contacted RSPCA etc. It wont be easy but will be worth it Have you considered having a necropsy in him? I know it is not good to think about, but I would hate to see it turned in to "I was standing right next to him and he had a heart attack and collapsed. I rushed him next door to the vet but he could not be saved. I was very upset so initially said he hung himself, but that is not what really happened". People lie to cover their backsides for much smaller things (yes, I am cynical). Again - OMG