Weasels

I'd like to come along if it ends up being at Kwinana beach if that's cool I'd only bring Weez tho since Fox has zero interest in other dogs.

I'm always at Warnbro beach on Sat & Sun mornings - if you do go on a Sat I could go the extra 5 minutes drive to Kwinana if you would like some Kelpie company :D Have to work Friday until midday

It sounds like they could also benefit from some counter-conditioning work with the lead. You can reward them for approaching, sniffing or even looking at the lead. If you have a clicker to do this it should help too. Then once they are more comfortable you could put the lead on, reward, then take it off. To speed up the process you could also do things like putting the lead next to their food while they are eating or feeding them out of the hand that you are holding the lead in. This is how I introduced Weez to his Dremel for nail trims, and he's been good with it so far. If they are still panicking when you put the lead on they may not get over it on their own, as from their perspective being put on the lead is still a negative experience due to their anxiety, even if nothing bad is happening externally. We will never know the full extent of what our rescue dogs have been through before we got them, but time + patience + training can help them a lot

If you wanted to go down this path you might need to start slowly then build up to returning from a prolonged absence, e.g. walking out then straight back in again then training the behaviour you want. Then walking out to the front yard then back in, then when they've got working well go around the block and then back in -> train -> repeat, etc.

I don't think people were suggesting that, in fact I think it was explicitly said by one poster they don't recommend it My main thought when I walk in the door is to act exactly as I would if I came in from another room. And, sad as it may be, I do say hello to my dogs and often give them a quick pat when I come into a room

Yep, these are your other options - you could train an incompatible behaviour, or you could redirect & reward. You could even set up the door opening as a cue to go to your bed/mat/crate. Alternatively if you don't want them jumping on the couches etc. while you wait for them to calm down, you could call them over, get them to do a few tricks, then reward the tricks. That way they get less chance to build the habit of going crazy and you don't have to put up with bad behaviour while you are ignoring them and waiting for them to calm down. I find it quicker to show them what I want them to do than wait for them to figure it out, but that says more about my level of impatience than anything really All good suggestions in this thread, it's just a matter of finding what works for you

Yep, ours have this on their tags too When I adopted Fox from the shelter they gave me a tag (like the council tag) which has her full microchip number printed on it The shelter we got Weez from didn't microchip before adoption but they gave us a tag with their phone no. and a reference number - so if he escaped before we could get him registered anyone who found him could get in contact with us through the shelter. Both great ideas to keep their adopted dogs safe I think

You can stop them pushing harder by teaching them a new way to get what they want. If you teach them that the second they leave you alone and stop carrying on, you will call them over and give them a calm pat, they will do what they need to do to get what they want. I did this with my other dog, and this guy at the beginning. Then I just became slack and now well, we have about 60 seconds of madness when I get home but I can ignore him and he goes back to his old ways. Say if I'm on the phone or something, he's still happy to see me but I can just turn away and he finds something else to do till I'm ready for him. Yep I could, but as other people said I want to greet my dogs when I get home, and I like that they're happy to see me after a long day + commute. The way I described is a compromise between me wanting to greet them but not have them go spare. I wasn't suggesting it was a better way than ignoring, it's just what works for us

This is my OH too - he yells "PUPPIIEEEEEES!!!!" when he comes in then gives butt rubs and scritches, sometimes gets down on the floor and wrestles with them I'm sure some trainers would have a fit if they saw it :p

Hmmm I have this dilemma a lot too - carry on doing something which isn't showing the desired effect to see if it works long-term, or try something else? In my case I come in the door, say "hello dogs", put my stuff down and say hello to my OH, then give them quiet slow pats. I find that acknowledging them stops them from pushing harder for attention (like jumping up), and then when I give them calm pats they have a hard time staying in a more excited state than I am and they just relax. Then they've got what they were after and trot off happy. The exception is if they don't bark at all from when I pull into the garage from when I get in the door, then they get a fuss the instant I walk in :D

I thought some councils gave discounted registration for dogs who have passed an obedience course? Not my council unfortunately but I'm sure I heard that somewhere, in SA I think?

Thanks for posting Aidan I was guilty of this when we got our second dog too Our first dog was just such a 'good dog' - she learned quickly, was reliable and confident and was just easy to live with. Intellectually I knew this wasn't usual but I still sometimes expected Weez to live up to her standards even though he was younger and a very different dog. It took me a few months to learn to read him better and work out what his pace of learning was

Excellent Riley must be a heartbreaker then!

I think most dogs will shut down for those reasons - either that or they will get aggressive. I would say the same applies for any dog. Yep, I just think it is a bit more extreme in kelpies since they are just busting out of their skin to please you and go a bit bonkers when they can't work out why they can't :p Also, mine both manifest 'shutting down' differently. Weez will literally run to the corner/into shade and not move, the Foxdog will run up to me and jump up and get too wound up to listen to commands. Either behaviour means they're in no position to learn anything until they've settled.

I have trained one dog in my life, a Hungarian Vizla. He died suddenly from illness a couple of months ago. I did not trial him for reason of work and other commitments and due to the fact that I am not that interested in dog competition. I have recently acquired a Kelpie pup from rescue up in the country. I have plans to start (formally) training him in the new year. My Hungarian Vizsla was a beautiful, soft, lovely dog. The Koehler Method allowed me, a complete novice to train him without help into a well behaved reliable dog to whom I spent many hours enjoyable walking him off lead all the while knowing him would come when call, heel when asked, sit, stay, drop, fetch etc etc. The notion that this dog, was in any way frightened, fearful or harmed by the methods I used is so foreign to my experience with him that I really do wonder why people have such an interest in denying the average dog owner (like myself) a perfectly good, simple method, specifically developed over 16 years and 11,000 dogs with a proven track record of bringing reliability. But then again, almost every single person that I have found who objects to the method has never used it. Sorry to hear about your boy Have you had a kelpie before? I just ask because they are very different to train. They are actually quite 'soft' dogs and will shut down if they are confused, frustrated or don't feel they are being treated fairly. The trainer of the most expensive working kelpie sold was very adamant that you have to be kind and fair to get the best out a kelpie. Another thing to watch out for is that they will work their guts out for you and then suddenly flag - sometimes they will push beyond their limit of tiredness and dehydration for you and you have to be aware it's time to rest and give them a drink, not keep pushing. Kelpies also have a reputation for 'hard-headedness' which some people percieve as willful disobedience. In fact they are just bred to act independently, quickly and on instinct. They may not obey you first time every time even after extensive training because they get quite fixated and are following their instincts, exactly as they are meant to when working. They literally go a bit deaf and may need a couple of commands to register that you are talking to them. I recommend the book "Kelpie Basics" from the Noonbarra stud (http://www.noonbarra.com/Products_BOOKS.htm#BEGINNERS%20MANUAL) which is a great insight into kelpie behaviour. I'm not recommending any particular training style, and I certainly don't have perfect dogs, but I think it's important to understand where these dogs are coming from temperamentally and instinct-wise Edit: quote from the trainer/breeder I mentioed above, who sold Wybimbie Ted for $9000 - "“The only way to get a good result with dogs is to build a connection with them - not through things like electric collars which I believe ruin dogs and trainers and should be outlawed.” Ian said Ted was such a standout thanks to his genetics, the correct handling and training."

Thanks Aidan! I'll have a look

I try to console myself that I haven't been doing it that long, we lost our trainer part way through the year and there was a big gap before the new trainer started. I was more focussed on getting their herding certificates this year but over the last couple of months I've been getting more enthusiastic about agility. Lately the foxdog even has to do a few jumps over the wooden fencing at the park before she gets offleash time each morning :p

Yes but Amypie I still regularly stop in the middle of the course and look around in circles trying to figure out which way to cross I'm very lucky the Foxdog is up for anything and reads me so well! It's when I take Weez out on the course that my true handling ability is revealed

that's ok! I hadn't really thought about trialling until recently but my girl is such a natural and enjoys it so much I might down the track. I'll need to greatly improve my handling skills first though!

Both I tie one to a tree and alternate between them. Although the last couple of sessions I've spent half the time trying to work Weez through his fear of going into the clubrooms

That's my neck o' the woods :D It could use some DOLers to liven the place up! We'll have to arrange a DOL meet one morning then :D

Amypie yep (except for last night, for obvious reasons :p)

I'm sure you're right Piper Aussie's are the most 'shepherdy' dogs I've personally seen herding though, and they seem to me to move the sheep more with their whole bodies (as 'loose-eyed' dogs) and working very closely compared to the BCs and kelpies at training. Unfortunately the OES I watched was just starting out and was nipping more than herding. I would love to see GSDs and compare another type again.

That's my neck o' the woods :D It could use some DOLers to liven the place up!

LOL. Of course heaven forbid teaching the dog to act responsibility. Being responsible means making the right choice even if you might at the moment prefer to do something else. If you never allow that choice, you may well train behavior, but you haven't trained responsibility. Wow, that is the complete opposite conclusion that I would come to. For example, if my dog is off sniffing something and I decide I don't want him to go any further, I yell out "That's far enough buddy" even though he is clearly enjoying the sniff. He is far enough away that I couldn't deliver an effective reward OR correction. Now here one of two things can happen. In my instance, Weez has been trained using 99.9% +R due to his timidity issues. I know he will stop chasing the sniff because a) From his perpective, being close to me is awesome due to prior work on building a reward history; and b) Doing what I say has always worked out well for him in the past, and hopefully he has been classically conditioned to get a warm fuzzy feeling when he does what I say (I should point out that "that's far enough" is a command I have only started using in the past few days, so this isn't a trained cue). If he has been trained using corrections, he won't have this classical conditioning to enjoy taking commands (he may even have the opposite). Sooner or later he may figure out "hehe you're too far away to correct me, why would I come over to you? This dog over here I want to greet is way cooler than you." Or even "when you're at work I don't get punished for destroying shoes, now's my chance" as opposed to "why would I want to destroy shoes? It's always been more fun to play with my own toys because I've built positive associations with them." If you have trained a reward history correctly, there IS nothing more fun than what you want your dog to do.