suziwong66

Wilbur's first week; a very small video snippet

I use luke warm. Just warm enough to help the shampoo lather up.

Thank you Puppy_Sniffer your quote "What do you believe?" relates to exactly why i asked Poodlefan's help in finding a somewhat accurate report as he/she appeared to have some sense of 'non mass media' enlightenment. My searches just kept getting the mass media hype and i wanted to know if there was anything more balanced about.

It's not a breed. It's already been plastered all over the news since this happened - it's a mongrel. No one knows what it is I do believe i was speaking directly to Poodlefan about a link regarding accurate information. Your negative picky input is not necessary or welcomed. My response was neither negative nor picky. Who are you, by the way- another journo? Goodoh, lovey. The dog that killed the little girl was not a breed. It was a mongrel. find some manners. No not a journalist; not that it's any of your business. If i choose to ask a DOL member to help me find a media source with some accuracy in the media that's MY business; not yours.

It's not a breed. It's already been plastered all over the news since this happened - it's a mongrel. No one knows what it is I do believe i was speaking directly to Poodlefan about a link regarding accurate information. Your negative picky input is not necessary or welcomed.

Hi Poodlefan, can you please find me a link that refers to the dog's breed? i can't find anything in any of the media outlets i've searched. Ps. i'm not entering into the current debate, i'm just looking to find accurate media reports on the gawd awful tragic incident. taa I'll cite the ABC as probably the most likely to be accurate. The dog has been cited variously as a pitbull or amstaff cross Mastiff. My guess is that its a lot of things, including a bull breed. Linky thank you

Hi Poodlefan, can you please find me a link that refers to the dog's breed? i can't find anything in any of the media outlets i've searched. Ps. i'm not entering into the current debate, i'm just looking to find accurate media reports on the gawd awful tragic incident. taa

sorry to just butt into your convo :D . The PP40 dimensions your breeder quoted appear odd. I've never seen internal measurements quoted; only outside dimensions. PP10 33 x 33 x 48.5 cm PP20 37 x 37 x 52 cm PP30 43 x 45 x 62 cm PP40 44 x 53 x 73 cm PP50 56 x 60 x 82 cm from this website http://www.puichinco.com.au/pet_products.html hope this helps.

Good lord no i'm not offended; i'm happy to hear of your choices and experiences I'm not against pet insurance; I'm just still at the stage of trying to analyse whether it's actually worth it for us or not; the odds are in our favour that our pets won't get sick, but obviously one never knows how the dice will roll. Insurance companies work and succeed on the premise of capitalising on the fear of the odds being against us. To be financially successful they need the odds of pets being healthy to be in their favour; otherwise they'd go broke. In 24 years of owning large dogs we've never really had enormous vet or medication bills. The worst was when Casper had some unkown reaction when we lived in Darwin. We nearly lost him The vet bill was the biggest we'd ever had but still not what i'd call crazy big. What differing policies offer will help determine the worth of taking out a policy. Lord knows our (human) health insurance company have had the better deal over the past 24 years of membership...It almost gave me a sense of glee this year though; my miss18 has had 3 surgical procedures (as an in-patient) on her toe and we only paid $30 for the surgeon and a few meds While i was almost feeling the glee of getting the best out of our policy this year, i firmly ignored that over the course of 24 years, the insurance company has had the better deal

Do you mean 'TornSocks' or a profile something like that? if yes, i've read those threads. If not, i'd be very appreciative of the name when/if you remember. taa. I'm not against Pet Insurance, i am however against being 'marketed to' at a vet visit that i have specifically arranged and paid for, with the purpose of a general health check along with a specific focus of Wilbur's mouth. I have approached a pet insurance company for more information which i may or may not take further and initiate a policy. I like to make independent choices without pressure from a vet who may or may not have an economic or other arrangement with the insurance company to 'encourage' pet owners to invest in insurance; the lack of transparency of such arrangements rankles me. I totally agree you have gotten your money's worth with claims of $7000, but i'm not entirely sure yet, that it's worth my while to invest rather than just putting money away 'just in case'...but i'm still analysing what's the best course of action for us long term. i applied online for an info pack of one pet insurance company. I had barely hit 'enter' of the online request form (i'm talking less than 10 seconds) when the phone rang; guess who it was? I told the lovely lady, firmly (while laughing at the irony of the situation) that the reason i applied for the info pack online was because i didn't want to interface with anyone from the insurance company and that when and if i was ready to ask questions or apply for a policy i'd be more than happy to interface with someone but until that time i'd appreciate it i wasn't continually contacted. I had barely finished speaking when she asked if i would like her to ring back when the info pack arrived for her to walk me through it i thanked her politely but declined

Thank you both for your input. Fordogs, i've already read the related threads on DOL; they were most informative, thanks for the suggestion though. My position, with information i've found from various sources, is that the procedure is presented as 'preventive' but in no way is preventive - there is no a) no quantitative data supporting its validity as preventive and b) Wilbur presents no problems at this time. The vet in question is one of the hired vets from a two-principal-vet multi locational practice (there are approximately 10 vets who have earned various degrees and level of qualification.) I'm not sure that she was following practice protocol regarding pushing products and procedures or not, however I will be asking for another vet when I go back for vaccinations in two week; if i am 'marketed to' again i shall start looking for another service provider. There were other issues that i had with the visit; i felt highly 'marketed at' re food and pet insurance. Additionally when i asked her about the information i had found regarding Wilbur's overbite, she couldn't conform it; her response was "i don't know". Perhaps i was asking too much of her, but I didn't think it would be outside a vets knowledge base to verify whether or not the mandible is a very slow growing bone that can take up to 10 months to fully develop; maybe her degree was less specific in the area of canine anatomy?? who knows. Her response was that in her experience (which of course has its limits) overbites and underbites never self correct. I responded that I was aware that underbites don't self correct but have heard from a number of sources that overbites can and do self correct. I was struck at the vets reluctance to enter into conversation about these issues with me; rather she gave her opinions without any supporting data; when i questioned her, she didn't/wouldn't/couldn't/failed to respond further. Am i being too picky in thinking an opinion, even an educated one, has its limitations unless supported by evidence from rigorous research? For me, as an educated professional, qualitative and quantitative evidence is very important in justifying my position on any given issue in my (or any) domain. I would never discuss an issue with a client without presenting the available data that justifies the position I have taken or in other words my educated opinion would come with the relevant data as I would never expect a client to accept my educated opinion on its own or assume that my educated opinion has been informed with up to date with current research.

I've posted this in the 'those crazy labs' thread but decided to double post here where there's more traffic and more topic appropriate. Went to our local vet (whom i've been using for the past 6 years) for Wilbur's check up that the breeder advised us to do. There were several issues that i had with the vet that i interacted with but her encouragement for a procedure was the most upsetting of the issues. I've never come across her before. Apparently she works in one of the other 2 practices within the group. Anyhoo, i feel very uneasy as this young woman gave me the distinct impression that she was encouraging me to a) get Wilbur desexed asap (in fact assumed that i would do it by 20 weeks max) and b) have a Juvenile Pubic Symphysiodesis procedure at the same time. She inferred that this procedure will be good for Wilbur however offered no quantitative data to support why i should allow him to have an invasive procedure. I have, since getting home, done a little more research and have found that even PennHip don't advocate this procedure. See below: "My vet has advised a surgical procedure to avoid the development of arthritis in my dog later in life based on the results of his PennHIP examination. Should I have my dog operated on? Answer: Until appropriate randomized and controlled clinical trials are designed and conducted, it is premature to use the Distraction Index as an indication for hip surgery, either remedial or preventive. At present several different surgical procedures (Triple pelvic osteotomy, Juvenile symphysiodesis) have been advocated by some veterinary surgeons to prevent the development of arthritis (degenerative joint disease) later in life in dogs with excess joint laxity (loose hips). None of these procedures have undergone scientific clinical trials that have proven THEIR EFFICACY in preventing the onset or slowing the development of arthritis in dogs with hip dysplasia. Although WE ARE not fundamentally against the use of preventative surgical management of dogs with excessive hip laxity, WE FEEL THE WHOLESALE CLINICAL USE OF PURPORTEDLY PREVENTIVE SURGICAL PROCEDURES BEFORE ADEQUATE TESTING IS CONDUCTED, IS UNJUSTIFIED. WE ADVISE CAUTION! It may be that in the future when good evidence exists to support the efficacy of these procedures their use will be encouraged." At this point in time I cannot see why this procedure is necessary. A) Wilbur is not limping or showing other signs of HD; B) both his parents have excellent HD scores and; Wilbur has a healthy diet of both raw meaty bones and premium large breed dog food (Royal Canin Junior Lab) and has no formal exercise program to prevent stress on his joints. For at least the first six months he will only have natural play exercise in the back yard. Additionally i have no desire to have him desexed until he is at least 12 months old. I would prefer that his body matures naturally before desexing. So...i'd like your positively delivered, constructive opinions....not on what i should do but what you would do why you would do it...and any supporting evidence would be welcomed with an open mind thanks for your input.

Don't be so hard on yourself I think you're expecting too much from yourself and Chester. I'm not sure we can expect toilet training with puppies to be linear in nature....after all it's not linear with children. My thoughts are that kids and puppies take steps forward and then steps backward and then forward again. I'd say expect mistakes. clean 'em up and move forward; just like we do with toilet training our kids. Do the best that you can when you're home alone with puppy and kids; after all that's all you can do. Wilbur is doing exactly what i though he'd do; be up and down in getting toilet training down pat. He's had a few wee accidents in the house since he arrived on Friday. I can honestly say they're ALL my fault I have failed to read his signs properly or missed the signs etc Wilbur started sitting at the backdoor and whining on Saturday; after he realised that's where the backyard is...where the FUN is. On Sunday he was sitting at the door and gave a yelp...i thought he wanted out to play; despite just coming in from a play. As it was, he was telling me "mum! i need to do a wee. NOW" but stupid me read the sign as "Mum, i wanna play again". Needless to say he had an accident within 30 seconds. I took him out and he did another wee and a poo too The lesson i learned, was that I am learning how to read Wilbur's signs and sometimes i misread or totally miss seeing the sign. I'm guessing that they hold on better during the night because they're asleep and much less stimulated by their environment. Wilbur is the same as Chester in that he goes long periods of time overnight without any accidents and then wees alot during the day (and i've missed at least one each day). On the up side, Wilbur has wee'd way more outside on the grass than inside on the tiles...gotta be happy with those stats :D From my perspective i'd say you're doing everything right and keep on the way you are. Perhaps just adjust your expectations of both yourself and Chester a little. You're doing great!

We finally got our puppy licks at 4pm yesterday. He was shy and quiet last night...but not today

the link won't work for me

Here's a short video of Wilbur in our backyard today; definitely Mr Naughty Pants in the making

I resubmited this post further down. finally nailed down adding youtube video :rolleyes:

Toys that have an ability to hold a dog's attention. Eg Food puzzles, Kongs etc especially if your breed has a high food motivation. Chew toys that roll etc One that has really gotten Wilbur's interest has a teeny tennis ball that's covered in material to look like bear's head with a tail that is like a long windsock. The windsock part is made from a hard nylon material and has crinkly noisy paper inside. This toy was only a few bucks from Big W. there is a bigger version available which i'll get when he's bigger.

Great first night for us too. Wilbur had been sleeping in the lounge room during the evening while we watched tv. OH went to bed around 11 & Wilbur & i followed at 12:30 after a loo break outside. We had a little play in my bed while i taught him to jump on my OH's head, who was out like a light Then he happily sauntered into his crate (beside my bed on a blanket box). He could easily hear and see me and i could reach to touch him through the bars. i took him out for a loo break at 2:30 am and he went right back to sleep At 6am i took him out for another loo break but he took longer to settle; wanting to play rough for a while in my bed. By 6:30 he was in his crate but obviously getting hungry as he was chewing like a crazy dawg I wanted to try and drag his Adelaide routine out to 8am. He settled and managed to drag out til 8. We had brekky and then a loo break outside and a big boy play in the yard. Nothing wrong with his bowels with five yes FIVE poos since he arrived. What a star He's currently asleep half off my lap and half off; sharing the space with my laptop. He is without doubt delightful. Yesterday when we picked him up he was shy...well shy guy has turned into Mr Naughty Pants this morning He's quickly gaining confidence with us and has already become my little brown shadow. Speaking of shadows, when we did our 'in the dead of night' loo breaks he was curious about the shadows we cast in the back yard! I don't think he'd been outside at night before. Wilbur and I are having a quiet day at home falling in love with each other I'll take pics later when he's up making mischief.

First night home: Wilbur was picked up from the airport at 4:05pm. He was very subdued and shy. We took him out of his crate immediately and then sat in the back of my hatchback and played with him for about half an hour til we picked my OH up at the regular terminal. As we were sitting at lights a short distance from the airport at 3:34pm Wilbur's plane flew nearly directly over us Silly me when we got home put him down for a second and he had his first wee...no biggy. Since then he's had two poos outside and numerous wees outside. He's had two half meals and had lots of cuddles and sleeps on us. For the past three hours he's been asleep in his bed surrounded by toys. He's gorgeous and has us all won our hearts! He's barely whinged...only in the first hour. The rest of the time he's been very happy; granted he's sitting between us all in his bed on the floor or on our laps I'm not sure how he'll go tonight with all this early sleeping, but whatever happens we're prepared for crying. I think (hope) as long as he knows we're near he won't fuss at all. I'll set the alarm for hourly wake up alarms for loo breaks. Pics are from my iPhone so not the best quality; better tomorrow with the dslr (battery is charging atm). Hope all the other 'first nighters' are doing as well as we are (so far)

i guess some people aren't prepared for the emotional tug of the crying; especially first timer puppy owners. And i guess you can't totally prepare for something you've not experienced previously. Not the best situation for the puppy but hopefully the breeders can convince them that the crying doesn't last forever and there are some strategies that owners can employ to minimise it. I'm prepared for Wilbur's crying so I'm not worried too much; he's not our first pup. If necessary he can sleep with us in our bed if he still makes a big fuss in his crate next to my bed...OH keeps rolling his eyes when i mention this but Wilbur's emotional wellbeing is my priority. I always hated hearing my non fur-babies cry...can't send them back to the breeder though

One day to go! but in the meantime here's a selection of pics of Wilbur & his sisters & mum from the latest & last instalment. call of the wild perchance? Wilbur modelling his blue collar or perhaps his ample butt

welllllllll???? where are the pictures???? ;) Baxter 9 weeks awwww too cute....happy new puppy day

2 more sleeps 2 more sleeps for us too, but it sounds way better if i say "tomorrow i get to say 1 more sleep"

I'm not sure how food responsive GR's are but labs will eat til their tummies burst & then still look for more I'll share what our breeder recommends for Wilbur who will be 8 weeks when we use this feeding schedule: 7:30am wet mix which is mince (chicken, beef or lamb) mixed with pasta or rice and veg with 1/4 cup Royal Canin Lab puppy kibble (it's recommended to mix the variations of mince, veg, pasta/rice up daily) 1:30 chicken frame 7:30pm same as breakfast other additive to the wet mix: sardines, tuna, mackerel, flax seed oil & parsley There is no suggestion of size of meals, but i'll look at the body weight formula online to guide me initially. hope this helps