suziwong66

i'm not bothered about him and his bum sniffing focus I'm pretty sure he'll settle down when he realises that seeing that many dogs every Tuesday is the norm. I like that most of his doggy contact is in a controlled environment like obedience; i like less, the on-the-spot meetings at pet stores etc where a number of the dogs & owners we meet are out of control.

Wilbur is a shocker at obedience he just wants to play with the dog in front of him or the dog behind him I approach it with a relaxed attitude; it's all fun. While we're there to learn we're also there to just chill and have fun. I don't want my focus to be so serious that i feel like we're failing. Wilbur goes to training really hungry, but it makes no difference; he's all about p-mail and slobbers At home in the back yard when we're practicing he's amazing but put another dog in the equation and it all turns to custard

me too. i think the grains are what give Wilbur the runs too he likes it, but it sure doesn't agree with his little tummy.

this Youtube video was played in my first ever 'education psychology' lecture at uni...we started with classical & operant conditioning...was hilariousl

yeah, i love teaching Wilbur tricks. We don't learn them at obedience. I've got a few of Kyra Sundance's books that are very visual at teaching tricks.

Wilbur's a toe licker...he's teething atm and get's a little carried away and then starts chewing on my feet.

We recently bought a pup that was registered in Victoria. When the breeder sent his papers, they were listed as the owner; which is, as far as i know standard procedure in Victoria. I signed the back of the registration cert, filled in the credit card details for the appropriate amount to cover the transfer of ownership and then sent it back to the breeders with a stamped envelope addressed to the Victorian Kennel club (or whatever they're called lol) asking her to sign it and then forward it to the VKC. About 3 weeks later a new registration certificate arrived which stated i was the owner. We are in Adelaide, and as far as i know, if we intend to trial him, we join Dogs SA and he can compete with his Victorian reg cert. 14 years ago in Qld, we bought a lab and the breeder listed me as the owners on the reg cert....so no need to transfer ownership.

mmm not sure i can totally agree with this train of thought. I think that the breed has some, across-the-board generalities e.g. puppylike boisterous behaviour; like to swim eg, and within that, there are the individual personalities that fall outside the 'bell curve' of what's generally accepted 'lab like behaviour'. Those behaviours that fall outside of the 'bell curve' can be both innate and/or influenced by environment (the latter both negatively and positively).

I know you asked for the professional side of the spectrum, but i'd like to add from the client perspective. We said goodbye to Casper our beloved 14 yo lab in May. When we made the appt we made the staff aware of the situation. When we arrived at around 5pm the surgery was very busy and i was trying to contain myself and keep calm for our dear old boy. Once the cat consulting room was free they took us in there rather than having us wait with the other pets for the dog consult room to be free. The staff were so very caring. Talking to us about his life, reassuring him that all was well; and also us - that we were doing the right thing. When the time came i was a sobbing mess, the staff were warm and caring and gave us permission to express our deep deep sadness. The staff while being professional were still so very warm and caring and it was that showing of empathy that helped me through one of the hardest days of my life. They managed not to cry [were visibly upset] but to be honest if they had of lost it, it would not have made it harder for us. The empathy of them sharing their stories of saying goodbye to their own furkids made them human. Truly felt empathy is a gift to the family saying goodbye. AFter we said said our final goodbyes to our newly departed boy, we went out to the admin counter; the staff, seeing our distress were fabulous. They didn't make us wait; the girl at the busy counter, got another staff member immediately to finalise our account. I think that the professionals showing their emotions can express to the family that no matter how many times they do the awful part of their job, that they still dearly care about each individual animal and family. A cool, ordered, detached professional can express (whether true or not) to the family that they don't care and it's just part of the job.

Most definately. I have read other posts about the Adelaide office being rude. It's a shame, because no matter how good a company might do a job, if the customer service is poor, it brings the entire experience down. I'll certainly think twice about using Dogtainers in the future if we ever get another pup from interstate or need to fly Wilbur out of state. Clear, respectful communication is an integral part of the service you paid for; shame you didn't get it

after having to PTS our beloved 14 year old lab Casper in May my heart was very heavy with sadness. We connected with a breeder of chocolate labs in Ballarat who had a boy from a litter but when he would have been due to go to a family, we would have been on a holiday that had been booked before Casper's passing; so we had to say no to that little boy. Had we been able to forecast Casper's time we would never have booked a holiday; instead we would have been happier to stay home and welcome a new furkid. The breeder had another litter due in a litter over a week from when i called her and we put our name down on that list for a little boy. We just sat back and waited and hoped that a little boy would be ours from that litter. Fate/good luck (what ever you would like to call it) shined down on us because at 2:45 am (i was still up) on Saturday morning i received an email saying that our baby boy had arrived; i woke everyone up - we were all overjoyed. Later that morning we received an email with pics of the dam and litter; we all agreed on a name that morning: Wilbur. I fell in love with our little boy that very day. Every few days for the next 8 weeks, new photos arrived...we fell deeper and deeper in love with him. We watched him, via pics, develop through his early days & weeks. On Friday the 12th of October at 4 pm, at a freight company, i opened the door to a crate and a rolly polly chocolate bundle, tentatively waddled into my arms. I've loved al of our dogs deeply, but Wilbur has set a whole new level of love for me. I miss Casper terribly still, but Wilbur has been a soothing balm to an open wound. Every new day brings more adventures, laughter and joy. I don't want to imagine life without him.

One of my friends, is meeting Sampson this weekend in the hopes that all goes well and they are suited to adopt Sampson. They sadly lost their geriatric dog a few months ago but are ready for a new furkid family member. I've got my that all works in their favour so Wilbur will have a playmate and a friend at obedience classes :D

Exactly what I was going to say - I don't agree with early desexing (I do desex my dogs though - prefer to wait until 18 months) especially since the dog would do dog sports, and I wouldn't buy a puppy from a breeder that already came desexed. I understand why rescue want to do it though. +2

we're not talking about one child; the OP has 4 children 3 of whom are under 4 years of age. The time required for training & maintenance isn't at all achievable in THIS family situation imo.

pups don't need weekly worming until they are 12 weeks old, and after 12 weeks of age they only need worming every 3 months. That isn't the advice we were given by our breeder or our vet; we followed both their advice ( which was the same).

no; that wasn't my intention. I believe it is an expensive exercise to purchase/own a dog in general though. I thought i had made it clear: "there are lots of things that i've spent money on that aren't essentials, but even the essentials alone are an expensive outlay".

Some of these things are necessities but most aren't. $100 raw and $60 training treats would last my large breed adult dog 2-3 months. Toys can be cardboard boxes to shred and plastic bottles filled with kibble - they don't have to be fancy or expensive. A large sized decent quality steel crate retails for around $100, heartworm/worming combo chews are <$10 per month and I can tell you that I've never spent $100+ on a dog bed! some of these figures seem a bit over the top. $120 and $40 for worming i buy worming/heartworm combo and today i paid $50 for 6 months worth. Beds i recommend are the steel frame beds with the hession sacks on them, haven't had to buy on for a while but i would think 30 -40 would cover it and the sacks are only a few dollars each. You don't need to spend $230 on kibble, there are many cheaper brands of good quality. I don't spend that much for 3 labs for a month. My dogs favourite toys are those which are free. Just as Secretkei has said cardboard boxes and bottles provide great fun. just to clarify the $40 worming has been for the past 2 months (weekly til 12 weeks then fortnightly). the $120 is a bulk buy for the coming 12 months of monthly all wormer/flea/heartworm treatment. The kibble has been for the past 2 months and the next 2 months is included in that (i've just bought the new bag.) The first kibble was recommended by the breeder; so i stayed with it - RC lab junior and the new kibble is Advance which i've decided to try after speaking to another lab breeder recently. The training treats $60 was for the past 2 months and the next 2 months since i've just bought a new roll. I've used the steel frame beds before and as you say are perfectly adequate; i have chosen differently with this pup. I think i made it clear in the post that lots of things that i've spent money on aren't essentials; merely my choice. Does that help clarify your confusion?

we're not getting one on one private training; it's still in a group setting. Wilbur will have no/limited dog to dog controlled socialisation between the end of NOv till Feb; i want him around other dogs as much as possible; but in a controlled way, so purchasing a place in a training group appears to be the only way i can get this. We haven't been in obedience long enough to have made 'out of school' friends yet I'm hoping that by this time next year the big break won't be such a big deal because we'll have found like-minded doggy/people friends that we can meet up with also we'll be able to continue training on our own.

I don't interpret labs as awful; yes they are hard work though....work that i'm willing and able to commit to. I don't think their reputation of being great family dogs is misrepresented...but it takes a great deal of work to develop the pup to the great family dog. Perhaps the hard work isn't adequately represented by the media? It wouldn't be the first time the media failed to represent a breed adequately or truthfully would it? And like you, i've experienced other breeds that weren't half the work.

awww if i didn't have the commitment of young Wilbur atm i'd be there in a flash!

I'm really happy to see that you're open to further discussion since, despite previous advice on other threads suggesting a lab puppy would not be the best choice of breed for your current family situation, you decided on a lab puppy. What i'm writing is not a personal attack so please don't take it that way. When you asked for breed advice in various threads, i gave you my opinion based on nearly 15 years of living with labs. There are two distinct points about your family situation that stands out. Firstly i find it difficult to foresee that you will have the time to supervise and train a lab puppy & training is IMPERATIVE....ongoing training; not just puppy school. Secondly the children are too young to safely be around a lab puppy. I don't mean that labs don't like kids; they generally LOVE kids. They are however heavy set boisterous puppies for a long time that can injure children unintentionally with that enthusiasm. in some ways i feel that not only can it happen, but it's likely to happen...often. Your family situation as it is now with 4 children, three of whom are under 4 is a huge responsibility in itself. A lab puppy is also huge responsibility in itself. I honestly don't think that anyone (not just you) with a large very young family is the best situation for a lab puppy. They are heavy, boisterous puppies for a lot longer than the average breed. Yes, they CAN be developed into wonderful family dogs; but with a HUGE amount of DAILY training work over years. they like to be with the family and will shadow you from one room to another. Small children and boisterous lab puppies can be a potential disaster. If the dog is to be a house dog, like you've said it would be, how are you going to supervise 3 littlies and a boisterous puppy? - and remember, that cute little puppy will grow to be a 30+ kg boisterous puppy-like dog very quickly and be that way for a number of YEARS. A lab puppy would be better for a family when the littlest member is not less that 4-5 years imo. They are dogs that will bowl kids over with their tail alone...when they are turning around, their bum can knock kids over easily. A lab can easily break a nose; their heads are like bricks and with one shake of a head a nose can be broken. Their heads are at little child's height - not ideal for the little one. Lab pups can be very mouthy/bitey as they were bred to work with their mouths; unlike breeds bred for other reasons. Mouthy breed dogs and little children are not an ideal combination. It's not that they bite or are mouthy in an aggressive sense; more that they get happy and excited and then bitey/mouthy. There is a lot of training in teaching a pup to stop being mouthy; it has to be consistent and focussed training. Labs puppies just aren't the same as puppies in general; they are in the puppy behaviour stage for much longer generally. I was raised with 4 German Shepherds, and one small poodle. As an adult my first dog was another Shepherd. They were like most puppies; a handful but they settled into calm juvenile dog in a reasonable amount of time. Our second dog was a lab (we got him 14 years ago) and as much as i am now a converted lab lover (couldn't imagine another breed) they are incredibly hard work to get from that boisterous puppy (that's a puppy for a very long time) to a controlled obedient dog. When we got our first lab, our kids were nearly 5 and nearly 8 years old; so one was at school and one was at full day preschool twice a week...even with that time away from kids it was hard work training Casper. He was boisterous until he was 10, but he was trained and we continued doing maintenance training with him until he was 13 yrs old; the year before he went to the rainbow bridge he was very sedentary - the only time he was sedentary in his life lol. If you were in SA i'd be more than happy to invite you into my and our latest lab addition's, (Wilbur 17 week old lab; 17 kg) lives so you could see just how much daily work goes into socialising him in the street, cafe's, car, park and at home. We go to obedience twice a week and then practice every day intermittently. He is exercised once and often twice a day. He is taken out into the community every second day to practice new behaviours and socialise. We constantly train in terms of being bitey/mouthy - Wilbur is shocking with his mouth. Despite much practice i anticipate it will be a while before Wilbur will be able to walk nicely out in public - we're still working on it daily. It would be impossible with a pram, a few other children and Wilbur. He is crate trained...this took two very focused training sessions twice a day for over two weeks. I still do a maintenance training session once a week with him so that he continues to go into his crate on command and sits up when i open the crate door. All training (not just crate) needs to begin without any distractions around to get the foundation behaviour achieved- having three little ones in the home will make this very difficult. And you might say, 'but isn't that with all puppies?' and the answer would be yes and no. Yes you need to introduce initial training behaviours without distraction with all dogs but you may get away it with a smaller breed. Factor in a boisterous large breed puppy and i don't believe anyone would get away with being able to focus a lab pup with three littlies around. Is it likely that several times during each day that you would have time alone with the pup to do small focused training sessions?...it's not enough to go to obedience school; you must practice practice practice during the day. Wilbur's interactions with small under 4 yrs children have been often and very controlled. he's always on leash, with me controlling him and the parent with the child so that Wilbur can be controlled; otherwise he'd knock over the child with his boisterous enthusiasm...he's only half of his estimated adult weight and he's already too big for little kids. He loves them though, but with just way too much vigour Wilbur is a house dog, as labs like to be. He goes outside when he wants to but generally he doesn't like to be left outdoor on his own for long periods of time. We accept this, as it's a breed specific behaviour. I really want you to honestly, rationally and realistically reflect on your ability to have & supervise a boisterous puppy (with years of puppy behaviour to come) in the house with 3 kids under 4. And reflect on your ability to commit the time necessary for initial and ongoing training throughout the labs life. In the last 10 weeks we've spent a lot of money. $1400 initial puppy; $290 air freight transport; $120 heartworm; $40 worming; $250 crate & delivery; $125 puppy school; $69 initial vet health consult; $180 vaccinations; $230 kibble; $100 raw; $60 treats for training; $50 council registration; $40 ANKC registration transfer of ownership; $66 obedience membership; $147 outside bed; $90 indoor futon; i'm guessing between $300-500 on toys/enrichment items (sandpit; wading pool; boomer ball; enrichment food puzzle; kongs; wobble kongs; ($100 on Tuffy toys alone) etc); $20 x 2 collars; $5 x 3 Scan ID tags; $10 x 3 ID tags; $45 shampoo & conditioner....it goes on and on. We are just about to purchase $125 worth of 10 swimming sessions at our vets hydrocentre - we don't have a safe swimming environment to go to & the swimming is excellent exercise for a growing lab with joints that we need to be careful about. Obedience class finishes in Nov for the year and doesn't restart till Feb so we have decided to invest in another training service until Feb, which charges $125 for blocks of 5 sessions. there are lots of things that i've spent money on that aren't essentials, but even the essentials alone are an expensive outlay; they are also non breed specific costs. Your finances are your business alone, but i wanted to give you some idea of the costs involved. I urge you to reconsider either your choice of breed or look at a mature lab/partly trained older pup lab. I realise you want (and should have) a dog socialised around your children...but this is part of the problem - the ages of your little ones around a boisterous lab puppy are a recipe for disaster. I don't want to see your children accidentally hurt or a lab puppy turfed outdoors away from its pack because it has no self regulation around the kids - or worse re-homed because it all turned to custard. Labs isolated from their family pack display undesirable behaviours like, barking, chewing, digging, howling etc. It's not fair to do that to a pup/dog whose innate desire is to be with the family. I honestly think there are better breed choices of puppy for your current family situation. There are other breeds that are better suited (both in size and temperament) to younger children families that want them socialised with the kids. If a lab is what you want despite the advice offered on this and other threads, i would strongly suggest looking at a more mature lab. You've asked for, and received sound advice from the lab thread people. Please, please take the time to rationally & realistically evaluate if you can provide the enormous ongoing commitment to a lab puppy who quickly becomes adult in size but not in behaviour. Yes Yes Yes they are fabulous family dogs; but it takes a lot of ongoing effort with training and then time for them to mature in behaviour before they develop into the ideal.

I think you will find many of us are of the opinion that the OP's family situation as it currently stands would fall into this category when we are talking about a LABRADOR puppy. Hence the recommendation for either an adult Lab or a puppy of a more manageable breed. I cannot understand how a breeder, knowing the details someone presents like 4 very young children with plans for more on the way, would be recommending a Labrador PUP for their situation? I'm baffled. +1 The OP may not be inclined to look toward a lab rescue for the reasons stated above. However, there are a number of more mature lab dogs for sale listed in the mature section of DOL which could/would be much better suited to a (possibly expanding) family of 4 children (3 of them under 5 yrs). It appears some of these labs are no longer suitable for the breeders' original breeding program plans; not rehoming candidates. RubyStar, it would also confound me if a breeder recommended a lab pup for this family.

it's the only disgusting thing about Wilbur

We brought Wilbur home at 8 weeks. he'd had predominantly an indoor beginning in life as he was born in a cold, wet climate during the worst of winter and thus preferred to eliminate on hard surfaces. We wanted him to eliminate on grass and had to train him to do that. We took him out for elimination breaks frequently; always on a lead. We took him straight to the grass and when he began to eliminate we repeated 'do wees'. once he'd finished we praised him with food or pats. We say 'do wees' for both wee & poops. At night, Wilbur now 17 weeks, still goes out for toilet breaks on a lead because otherwise he thinks he's on a play break. We will begin to shape his behaviour so that we can let him out to eliminate independently and then he'll come straight back in (at night). He now eliminates on command; it was just a matter of repeating the command every time he was eliminating and making sure we controlled where he eliminated; consistency and repetition was the key to success. If your pup is outside alone and you want it to eliminate only on the grass then I would think you would need to confine it to the grassed area so that it doesn't get to choose where to eliminate. Your furbaby is so very young; i think maybe your expectations are a little high for its age will allow it to successfully achieve. We went into toilet training with the though that it will take as much time as it does...in other words, no timeframe. Our job was to focus on consistency and repetition and setting Wilbur up to succeed at first with support and later with independence. good luck.

I would hate to have been manipulated by a breeder in this way; i like to think that purchasing a puppy is a team effort where open honest communication is exercised. Gees...call it how you like - I dont see it as manipulation at all, but gentle persuasion. Yep, seeing as you dont know the whole long and lengthy conversations that entailed beforehand I guess its easy just to assume there was a lack of communication. gentle persuasion would require the buyer to to be fully informed. based on the information above, i would call it as manipulation. if it was something different then, by all means, describe it as it was. If a lie was involved, then i would still consider the buyer was manipulated.