Angeluca

And people said this thread couldn't be friendly, or it's been done to death. thank you for your pics beautiful. i though I'd load a pic of my sister's bullarab with my goldie, he is layin down so not the greatest pic but he is a nice dog. He is 8 mths in this pic and my goldie is 3 yrs not the biggest goldie but full grown

http://asaplab.com.au/dnatesting/canine/canine.html They offer full DNA profile and screen for only $135. the submission form has a box to tick off to the side of each animal section saying Full animal profile? http://asaplab.com.au/dnatesting/forms/assets/Molecular%20Testing%20Application%20Form.pdf And has a list of things the test for which can be selected by breed or full disease listing on this page http://asaplab.com.au/dnatesting/Breeds/breeds.html has anyone used this program and had any bad experiences with it?

I have not input to the previous comments but geez it is making for interesting read.

Please don't take it as I am, I fully support anything dog done properly. But the lines get blurred as to who is doing it properly so it becomes hard to support. Just going to remind people, I love my sister's bullarab, he is a giant boofhead, (who attempted to ruin my new dog pen) but he is very sound and is able to be lead down the street by my 5 yr old nephew. And if he was an example of the breed temperament he would out rank alot of other breeds on my faves list. He has no drive except for chasing butterflies so would never be of purpose, but not all ANKC breeds live up to their purpose.

They have multiple, I have found 2 that one and http://www.bullarab.com.au/ which comes back to the question. How does someone determine a registry legitimate? And for example the 2 Bullarab registries both claim to want ANKC recognition. One DNA tests and the other doesn't and a few differences in standard and breeding policies. Obviously there are politics involved otherwise why would they not just be one as they both seem to want the same thing?. Which one is the proper one if any? What happens to the other one if one is accepted into the ANKC, ????

Mini Foxy The Australian Cobberdog - and the reason we made them change their name was because keeping it as the Australian Labradoodle confused the public as first cross lab x poodles are still called this and those who breed them never want to do multi generations and never want to be involved in breed development - it legitimises cross breeding. Same with the Australasian Bosdog it immediately recognises it as a breed in development and not just a bunch of people doing first crosses and cashing in on "hybrids" it takes a while for the name changes to take and it's why there is usually a 3 year transition period as it comes around to being used to describe the breed. I think it's the best idea ever, to distance themselves from those who BYB those types, The bullarab I think is is the exact same boat as any oodle, few want to do it properly and most just want to make money or latch on to an ego of having a purebred with out generations recorded or health testing done.

Not sure how having danes or weims in them impacts the discussion, the many breeds in them hasn't been criticized, If there are people out there with 5 + generations which registry are they on if you know of them personally, I still intent on calling the 2 I know about for more information to be better educated. The problem with the bullarab is it is a known crossbreed publicly more so than any oodle.

I have taken it back to the other topic so being can post funny things again

My argument has never been about fit for purpose or not, a cattle x kelpie that has as much ability as either breed doesn't make it a purebred which is what I'm getting at and farmers don't go round callin their crosses Catpies or whatever to claim pure status. The Bullarab is not a pure bred, is my argument, every bullarab i'm introduced to have multiple dogs with 3 generations of their breeding and that's if they can claim knowledge. That goes for my sister's who lives hours away to the guy down the road who goes hunting. The bullarab would best be described as a style of crossbred which was bred for a purpose and most do it well what ever their stlye, size, weigh,t colour. Going by what I am learning on the other thread the 'bullarab' would never be recognized in ANKC as a bullarab due to not having a unique name? that is because every pig hunter (or hobby hunter so as not to defend pig hunting enthusiasts) who backyard breeds, breeds bullarabs. the best thing for those who are actually trying to get it recognized would be a name change. and I only mention ANKC cause both bullarab registries that I know of state that's what they are aiming for.

Not denying anyone the right to have anything, but we go over and over the fraud or deliberate misleading information given to puppy buyers are given when they buy their dog. A dog who's grandparents have more then one breed in it can not be deemed a pure bred because the parents are the exact same cross. Not all registries are legitimate which brings back to the question what makes them a registry? trying to develop a breed or a group of people trying to create a website that claims to be the governing body of a dog which they claim to be pure for the purpose of either making them feel like a proper breeder and have the ability to sell dogs for a exploded price with basically fake papers. For every one group trying to do whats best for the style of dog they have fallen in love with (which ever way are trying to do it whether it be ANKC or other) there are many out their trying to deceive for profit or appeal to their egos. I am not against the idea of breed development, but there is a difference between that and just saying you have a purebred. Remarkabull how many generations ago was the last 'multiple breed generation' in your dogs? I only ask this I am trying to figure out at what point do these developments get declared a purebred. Within their own group not ANKC declared. I realize this answer is a cat in a hat sort of question as it's a opinion, but personally don't deem anyone just saying they have a pure bred to actually be a purebred (in breed development, or designer circumstances) But Remarkabull you seem to be part of a very ethical group from what you have said and If anyone would have a realistic view within this discussion it be you.

Your registry sounds very professional, So what happens when they are ANKC eligible, do they become the bookkeepers of the breed and your registry become a club, or do you still maintain the stud book and breeding program.

So are the recognized as bosdogs but the general public or do you still introduce them as both or either? and Approximately how many breeders within your society ? Sorry just curious

Meet him at shows or ask to visit the stud ? Interstate I'm not sure unless you have a friend in that state, request a video of him interacting with different animals and people If of course the stud owner is abiding.

I think some people get confused with this thing about looks. A young performance breed, bred for their performance will often have 10 different dogs with 10 different looks. Eventually a type will establish but you need only look at the APBT to see that even so, 2 dogs can be of the same breed as evidenced by papers or whatever, and look totally different. This is a common thread with many new-ish (and even some older) performance breeds (including Turkish shepherds, APBT and others) and eventually, depending on the breed fathers, a breed standard may be written up that puts some kind of limits on the range of appearance, usually for visual preference, uniformity's sake or to make the breed more palatable as a "breed" to the registry that they are trying to get recognized with. I don't think you should be so dismissive of a "breed" just because its individuals don't all look the same. I under stand what you getting at but I was keeping in mind my sister isn't dog savvy so the differences were huge. even googling the recognized breeds you could see differences. such as the amount of loose skin and rolls, to size and structure. example being 2 show neos, one lovely proportionate nice colour, another large, rolls you could hide a border collie in and was a grand champion go figure? the differences between the 'bull arabs' I showed her were a meter in full grown size, clean tight lipped to extreme 'mastiff style loose lips with rolls of skin around eyes, lean and athletic to extreme front heavey and stocky. This isn't just a case of a few differences or noticeable but strong this was a matter of complete opposites, And when faced with 50 photos you'll find a few different styles in most breeds but not every single dog looking different.

This reminds me of those people who have their deceased pet stuffed, then install a mechanism inside to make it look like its breathing, and have it in the house. now thats creepy

I have started the topic for new discussion, people thoughts may have changed and new people have joined. it is probably better then hijacking this one completely. feel free to take part or not.

Ok so this is not a crossbred promotion rather then the development of new breeds, I myself don't know much about it and my guess is neither do a lot of other. How do they get recognized? ANKC and any other means? ANKC guidelines and requirements? registries what makes them legitimate does the government need to recognized the registry first? How many breeders must be involved or different gene pools to develop the breed on? How many said dog to said dog breeding does it take to classify pure or it that in a registries discretion? Are they pure before a recognized registry has proclaimed them to be or are they just crosses or developments 'concepts' until then? Once recognized are they only classified pedigree from that generation on or are previous papers recognized within the development? In regards to the purebred and pedigree argument. I think the purebred label has been misused and there fore lost a lot of credibility . People claiming to have pure breds from developing breeds, ethical breeder bred or otherwise. People developing false papers for their 2 different pedigree dogs puppies or dodgy internet registries for fraudulent purposes. You can't blame someone for assuming a mutt when the parentage can't be verified after all these examples of missuses. But where did the purebred dog go then? within a recognized and common breed most people know the look they are supposed to have. But when small difference show people assume a cross unless pedigree, then pending the difference severity the next assumption is poorly bred. But there are different styles in alot of breeds, GSD is probably most common and distinctive, but so many others do too and alot of it comes down to flavour of the month at shows, or distinguishing working lines and show. What are peoples thoughts?

I think i might make a topic bout this to discuss the purebred/ pedigree topic as well as the purebred registry and their legitimacy. Really curious as to how a breed gets recognized, so be a friendly topic

Nicely said! to add I said Dolers for reasonable and responsible answers, I know a lot of other less dog savvy people would clone their pooch, just like they want to breed them to have another one.

Yeah thats the problem media blows an issue out of proportion, and incompetent people claim theirs as stolen resulting in those with legitimate thefts go ignored allowing these people to continue on under the cover of ignorance. Sad.

Very sterile advice from them. Practical but entirely tactless. How awful for her. Agreed how hard it is to say sorry we can't !!!!

not even going there tho curious if this was happening in Australia how many DOLers would apply ?

There are 2 'registries' ABBA and the Australian Bull Arab registry. And their standard differs slightly. ABBA http://australianbullarab.com claim to already have purebreds and claim if they are from a group of select breeders and can provide papers on request to registered pups that provide linage. And claim their main goal is to be recognized by the ANKC. but to not enforce DNA testing yet. they have a gallery but is is of the founding breeds ect and doesn't show any recent type establishment. Australian Bull Arab Registry http://www.bullarab.com.au From what i can gather by their website is they haven't actually established the breed, But intend to whether it's recognized by ANKC or just following their guidelines to establish a pedigree and type, they require DNA testing and believe there is enough to determine bull arab breeding to create a unique DNA series, and any blood that detects any other breed would not be eligible for entry to stud book. there gallery is of recent pics and shows a couple of dogs of different colour but same sort of shape and size. I also think all these dogs are from 1 breeder, so do all breeders follow this style or are they all doing slightly different things So which would be a legitimate registry? or are they both or neither, are they just a group of breeders that type up papers like the oodles do out there. in forums and on fackbook groups there are people quoting pedigree names and saying thins like warrego lines and hodgens lines and a another one or 2 can't remember but all this dogs look very different to muzzle short and wrinkle, broad deep chests and very front heavy, this dog also appears to have a natural bob tail gene going by a picture of his current little or long and short tails..(which none of it is in either's standard yet this person claims to be apart of one of these registries) to lean loose lipped but firmish facial skin most with a wrinkle in definition when at attention, athletic appearance med chest depth and balanced over all. I have mentioned them to my sister she seen their website and thought about the DNA testing for her boy. In their standard he is way too tall but fits very other way. I am going to call them for arguement sake when i take with my sister and for curiosity to see who they consider the founder of the breed. As Mike Hodgens seems to be an icon to some hated by others but menton by quite a few as the founder.

I suppose it would be easy to make papers if you used 2 pedigrees, however i don't even think that is needed. My next question to these gullible people "to what nationally recognized registry would they be on? or is it just a piece of paper the puppy farmer or backyard breed made up? of course I'd only say this to those who were rude about it otherwise I either try to explain, or leave it. the best one is my sister and her bull arab. Oh that one can go one forever and every time i get through to her she relapses cause I think her partner defends the dogs breeding. My last effort was to show images google has on neo mastiffs, great danes, english mastiffs, grey hounds and bull mastiffs. I explain a basic consistency in type, height and weight and appearance style. And ask her to point out the obvious backyard bred, to show/purebred dog style. And she did great. considering her lack of eye, then we looked at bull arabs and we couldn't find 3 dogs that looked at the same or more then one that looked like her boy. and i explained that no one has bred a pure bull arab, and people who she states made the breed are self pro claimers, Her argument then is she can't find any info on the breed past them. I then say cause they aren't a breed and these yobbos have made websites and created a trend in naming a type of cross pig hunters have been doing for decades , they just called them their pig dogs, their mutts, their mates ect. i wouldn't go to that much effort with anyone esle but i do love arguing with my sister cause she bites hard and then when i win it is kinda fun. Siblings huh?. to keep it above relationship damaging I do like her boy and I express that but i say all her lucky stars fell in that box to get such a nice dog as he is. Considering the potential bad combos that could be in him.

Actually there are a number of inaccuracies in it. Firstly - the ACL is now a consumer guideline. The Competion and Consumer Law Act is actually legislation that is enforceable and able to have actions bought in relation too. And in contract law - it is now about proving a case. In this jurisdiction the onus of proof is simply "on the balance of probabilities". I would take the 'advice' from such helplines with a grain of salt. Only way to get a definitive answer is to get legal advice from an appropriately qualified legal professional. I rang the ACL commission, Office of fair trading, legal advice hotline, and a consumer hotline. ACL yes is a legislation however the commission itself doesn't act on it that has to be done at court, the only thing they will do is advise a consumer if they have a claim, and what action to take which is usually negotiations which they will mediate but if that fails the consumer then has to seek legal advice and go through the court system. About the contract law, What I basically meant is they have to try and prove what you did wrong and you have to try and prove how their claim is false, obviously the judge weighs up the facts and makes the judgement but you need to try and convince him you did everything you possibly could and informed the buyer of any risks. Doing a disclosure statement and legally guided guarantee will help but not necessarily protect you. Without sitting with a lawyer for hours experienced with this sort of case no one was willing to clarify terminology, in fact the ACL said it is left like that for the court to determine individual cases as they need be rather than 1 policy for all circumstances. This I understand, but when your trying to protect yourself from false and unreasonable claims it gives no information and no guides. Basically trust the courts when the situation arises. Which is fine if you have enough proof and information to educate a possibly dog literate Judge.