Angeluca

Partner said he liked the black and silver cause of the bushy grey eye brows and beard because he his getting grey hairs now that he turned thirty but on a serious note i don't think he'd want a white one but the others would all be ok.

A bit like this? God this breed sounds like it would suit the mischief my partner gets up to.

Thanks this is great!!! How is everyone's opinion/ experience with destruction? wooden funiture legs, cushions, socks?

Thanks heaps the clipping and trimming wouldn't bother me and we understand with the away workers but my partner is extremely animal affectionate (just don't tell him I mentioned that) that every animal we have never leave his side when he is home. It's actually annoying a lil. But it is a risk we take bringing in any animal to this environment for that reason i think we'd avoid any breed like an Aussie shep and the breeder i know at my club says hers are very one person and they choose who.

Hmmmm I try to be very optimistic when it comes to my partners suggestions he has some way out there ones, I'm starting to think this one might actually be a good idea. I'm not a fan of jack russels but everything I've read so far including the links previously posted for me (thanks ) suggests that this breed will fit in nicely Not too much dog nor thinks of it's self that way yet enough dog to cope with this busy house. Just curious on the shedding tho. It says brushing and clipping which don't bother me (goldies) but havn't seen anything on shedding?

For years Partner has been sayin he wants a dog of his own. recently saw a mini schnauzer on T.V and said that is the one he wants the 'grandpa dog' But on a serious note our current situation is we have 3 goldens, 3 cats and a horse. We also have 2 kids 7 and 8 and one due in oct. We live on 10 acres and are renovation the house. Partner grew up with shih tzus and gsds mainly his gran bred and shown the shih tzus. He also had a Rottie or two and a cattle dog x. So he isn't dog ignorant. And I have had gsds, rotties , dobes ,a border,a corgi and a chi plus various crosses. I also recently got my prefix in the hopes of breeding goldens in the future. Neither has ever had a terrier but honestly don't see that as a problem. We are thinking in a couple of years time maybe 2-4. Partner has always wanted a mate for him to hang out with (his current mate is a 12mth old ginger cat) while he pods around the paddock and he loves the goldies we have but it isn't what he wants. I was thinking the goldies are out in the dog pen at night and have an acre to run in during the day but partner's small dog would be inside dog. And since my partner works away 10 days home for 6 it has to be a dog I could enjoy inside all the time which when it comes to little dogs restricts breeds alot. We would be getting a pup suitable a young family and have areas which pup would be where kids can't and visa versa. So a couple of questions/ info on the breed 1/ shedding how much do they shed 2/ are they a one owner sort of breed ( I would be doing most of the training whilst partner is away, I find the goldies listen better to me but love the smooches and get super excited when they see partners car drive in) 3/ recall with training ? Any other info would be great i know alot depends on individual and training but basic breed traits and stuff?

the last 2 pages of this thread had me in stitches seriously! twodoggies I got no idea where your statement comes from If you mean like male dogs being entire and dominant and stuff that comes down to training, recall and socialization things that should be done before going to an off lead park and sometimes can't controlled by desexing. Jade everything your saying is contradictory every reason you state for desexing could have been prevented by training or choice before buying a dog. If you have a male dog why buy a female when you know prior to purchase you'd have to do elective surgery on her cause they couldn't play for six weeks a year or visa versa. Or why buy dogs if your fences aren't high enough these are the same as asking why someone would buy a dog they MIGHT bark a lot. You don't know how the OP and this dog came to be or how long they have been together. You don't know where she lived prior to having to move and you don't know why she has to move. But the fact is she does. And to keep her friend this elective procedure which is less stressful and less harmful in every way compared to desexing (assuming done by vet) . It Could arguably be more important then desexing as a preventative or management procedure. i think it was said it was a 10 yr old dog ( if not sorry) if it doesn't go with it's owner what happens to it?

Are your dogs desexed? That's quite a big operation to put our dogs through for our own convenience. Not trying to be controversial, just putting forward some alternate thoughts :) Lol yes my dogs are desexed. Not so much for my own convenience (apart from the mess with the little miss) more so for their safety and to make sure less puppies are in this world that don't need to be. Not trying to be controversial and all... but the way I see it most of the time a barking dog is the result of inaction by an owner. I understand the OP is elderly etc but I've recently seen a similar issue with a youngish girl who had a kelpie in suburbia and was not willing to work the dog like it needed to be and ended up re-homing her to a farm where she is doing much better. It was the best thing for the dog. At the end of the day the dogs needs have to be taken into consideration before what we want. Note : I'm Not against desexing and i know there is more then just health risks and unwanted puppies as reasons to desex such as behavioral and so on. And not a personal attack. but your statement is a little contradicting. You state that your dogs a desexed because 1 safety i assume you mean health wise. Its a preventative measure only that your dog may have health problems if it isn't desexed. Many dogs have lived healthy lives without desexing probably as many who got ill from not being desexed. I personally find the health argument in desexing invalid. You never know if you have helped the dog avoid health problems or just put it through an unnecessary operation (regarding only health). 2ndly which is the part I find contradicting you desexed your dogs to prevent unwanted litters. Couldn't you just do everything to make sure your dogs (male) are secure and can't get to someone else's female on heat or in the case of your female secure her to prevent unwanted males including your own from getting to her instead of putting your dogs through the procedure. I own both sexes undesexed and I managed to not have unwanted litters as I know many others do. Yes desexing is responsible not contesting that but it is just a easier way of controlling your own dogs as you put debarking is. Personally I find both desexing and de-barking can be put in both categories elective and Necessary pending on individual circumstance and reason.

LOL!!!! Being a goldie owner who has owned a border collie before I do not see any snobbery in having the knowing of which breed is for you. I have a list as long as my arm of dog breeds i refuse to own. Others I've never considered. It comes down to preference and ability to accommodate owner needs to dog needs and visa versa. A marathon runner probably wouldn't own a pug, An elderly person would more then likely not have a 2yr kelpie and A person in a unit is less likely to have a GSD.

Mine working is long term sustainable work with a large disposable income portion and excellent benifits including weeks of annual leave. It is to bloody hard to get into the mines for the average person why the hell would they get out of it. If the owner has a long term plan/agreement with the right kennel or family member a financial plan to accommodate the dog and a strong commitment to the animal then why not? why is a 9-5 worker who has less time ? or a pensioner who has less disposable income? any better. Judge each person and situation individually and keep the discrimination to those who actually do harm to animals.

I often get the "why the hell would you pay $1000, $2000 just for a dog when you can get them off the notice board for $50 or the pound for $300?" I think the snob label comes from the price we pay for an animal just like people who buy handbags for $2000 in comparison to the $50 bag from Big W. So a purebred or designer dog is for wealthier citizens to put it politely and petshop pups can spontaneous ATM-pup. Not many make the connection past cost. Nor do they see any possible future out lay for there choice in a $50 pup. People think more about what type of coffee they want longer then what sort of needs they or the animal has.

couldn't agree more

An educated person would say that you cannot tell the breeding of a dog by its appearance, and that it is not possible to tell the breeding of a dog that looks nothing like any aprticular known breed. The council paperwork does ask a silly nonsense question, so if you have a mixed breed dog, you are better off calling it a silly nonsense name and signing your name to that. Grizzled fluff hound x huge dog. Council will accept that one. Guessing perpetuates myths spread by designer dog breeders that a cross breed pup will have particular traits. It's wrong. Only purebreeds are predictable. Once you start crossing breeds the first things you usually lose are the unique identifying breed traits. Yes I totally understand your point, and agree. But the problem with council is they don't care for logic or fact. If a dog is stated as a maltese x bulldog on a piece of paper they will automatically assume the dog has aggressive traits without looking at the dog. If you leave out the bulldog part and just put maltese x and something goes wrong they accuse you of falsely providing an accurate description of Breed and life justs gets harder from there. Regardless of how inaccurate breed identifying is in cross breds (especially with traits). Sometimes it is just necessarily. The best way is to find one or 2 most likely/ close too looking breeds in the cross and declare them. As that is how a BSL dog is judged by the way it looks. It will also be helpful when ringing vets, pounds, rescues or putting up ads or flyers if the dog does missing to have a visual description which in most cases breed comparison. I myself will not buy or rescue a crossbred dog because of the issues you mentioned and the ridiculous laws and regs in place. For that reason I have friends who refer to me as a Snob 'because I will only have pure' and won't rescue a pound puppy and so on. In an ideal world there wouldn't be crossbred dogs caused BYB or farming situations. And every Dog could be identified and have a happy home and teleporters could get us to tropical islands for the weekend.

WOW I was there staurday Me and my kids were at Mt Morgan, looking at a house we hope to buy!!!!! sorry OT

I know that the likely hood of it being 2 or 3 breeds is impossible. But These threads can be very helpful to the new owner of the dog or potential owner. When you register it with council you have to name 1 or 2 of the main breeds and altho no important with this particular dog can be very important with restricted breeds or bully breeds. Do we not prefer the council get a judgement right, therefore should be not have an educated guess at the dogs breeding to provide for identification purposes or do we only expect that from the council in bad situations where a dog is getting taken off it's owners? That aside it is also good to have some accurate guesses at breeding so a description of the dog is given if the dog becomes lost. Some crossbred mutt went missing is so and so street! what does that achieve? Who better to ask then experienced pedigree enthusiasts????? Or would you prefer they all went and asked a vet?

Pet shops activly support the BYB industry by buying their products so often, doesn't this make them "worse"? To a degree both industries support the other, take one away and the other will still exist, but struggle for a while until it picks up market elsewhere. Taking away BYB might force pet shops to source their animals from better places though, whilst taking away pet shops won't make BYB create better animals. A lot of the questions/answers we've come up in this thread would be irrelevant for pet shops as they are mostly cross breds from BYB, and wouldn't be registered or have papers or pass any health checks. I think the reason behind the belief that pet shops are worse is they don't only get pups from byb, but run of the mill puppy farms and mass producers. A majority of these types of facilities do not accommodate any care or well being of the stock the hold, and do not vac or worm let alone exercise and properly feed the animals the receive their income off. BYB is more so referred to the family pet that is usually offered space of a yard not a cage, and usually has contact and stimulation. that some one thought they could either get a quick buck from or an accident has happened. In this instance BYB is not worse the pet shops cause BYBs don't support the puppy farming trade. Pet shops are hardly accountable. Some have a 5 day refund policy but unless you buy a visibly sick pup, by the time issues arise it is no longer their problem. It's the to bad so sad scenario.

Jed I don't think you had attitude, you are confident with your stock and have a very strict system. That is excellent. I do believe there are a few breeders out their that are far too relaxed. There was a thread recently with a poll about showing and breeding with a major structural defect. I personally found some of the answer alarming but hope they didn't understand the question when they voted (for the breeding more so but both really) As I said I am not experience, so my posts were more questions then statements on other breeders practices. And I found yours and SSM's replys while both different, very informative.

I'm sorry if i'm getting this wrong. But my point is dog do go to the vets healthy, I ever stated all the time it may only be 5-10 time in their entire lives but for a number of reasons they have to go to the vet. When a bitch is presented for health test or vaccinations which ever they are she is seen by a vet. 9 times out of 10 vets do a quick look over as part of their consolation regardless the reason she is there. For example A vet that put a dog under for hip test without a quick check needs to have their licence revoked IMO. I would not take a litter or dam into a clinic either but vets do house calls IF needed, not saying every litter needs checking. Have you never had a c-section or mastitis or retained products in any of your bitches? great if you haven't but some of these situations arise during breeding regularly, even in the best of situations in the best kennels. Puppies also have an array of little complications that sometimes occur. (Please note I am not speaking in experience just research in my progress in becoming a breeder) Have you never a dog with a stomach bug, any minor issue (like licked a toad ) or suffered any aged sickness, blindness or arthritis issue or needed medication what so ever? A statement of 100% healthy is a very bold statement. Please note I don't question your ethics or methods of breeding and selling your puppies. Just saying even the most experienced owner/exhibitor/breeder and vet can not predict and assume they know very thing about their dog inside and out 100% of the time. And Some are willing to breed a less then 100% healthy dog for whatever reason. Which is why health checks are in place, and we recommend puppy buyers see the litter, dam + sire if possible and Any health checks available. I never meant that buyers should request or demand health checks, thats crazy! just ask what is available (and yes do the research to know what is required to be available) and if they feel comfortable with the breeder then continue on their purchase otherwise move on.

This topic is going to get very opinionated. A mention on the vet check topic, there are many reasons a healthy dog goes to a vet. Hip/elbow scores, Vaccinations I would think a dog whom is shown or competed regularly would/should have vacs if only for kennel cough , dental check, ultra sound to confirm preg. I would think that the healthiest brood bitch has the occasional well being check (I could be wrong). I don't think no dog is healthy 100% of the time. to the original topic= A record of worming and vac on puppies, Information on the breed including any health concern, Info on training and socializing puppies and the importance of it. BSL laws if relevant (bully breeds ect this also includes why crossing runs the risk of a seized dog and importance of papers in these particular breeds) And a detailed list on diet and information/instructions if planning on changing the diet. I believe history (papers, health checks) on parents is very important as well. I'm not a experience Breeder, so I will watch this topic very close.

Golden retriever rescue has alot if not hundreds of sad stories and recovery journeys might hit home a bit more if it was also about the breed in question http://www.grr.org.au/

but that would have been an interesting breeding... :p You can actually abort an unwanted litter. Why have dogs like this, undesexed and on heat, running round together. It sounds extremely irresponsible to me, from the dogs' point of view. Why would you be breeding this sort of crossbreed deliberately in the first place? Why is my biggest question, why breed these crossbreeds, why not be more careful and obviously if the parents have attacked another dog(s) this is not an owner that is responsible in any way. That has to be one of the best posts that this thread contains. Personally I would be interested in seeing the pedigree and a photo of the purebred Bullmastiff bitch which is the dam of this pup. And question how the owners of this bitch contributed to her aggressive upbringing. Considering this thread wasn't about whether the breeder should have kept the litter! it is about advice to a person who obtained a pup, and is now getting screwed over by her local council. The OP didn't breed the dog, and many people are still going to the pound/rescue and buying x bred bully types. They too run the risk of the same situation. IMO the Best posts would be those whom have been constructive with advice to a fellow dog owner in a difficult position.

Most Fave the list is long but to top it would be berenese, GSD, Rottie, Dobe, Goldie, Aussie, Irish setter ect.... all have very individual reasons and alot are very different in size and temperament but all are stunning dogs. I have a dislike of small dogs except the beagal and chi hua hua (sp?)just something about those 2. I don't like their believe they can take on a large breed, alot of the are socially arrogant. I know this isn't all dogs, but majority of the ones I've met. No offence intended.

Bernese mountain dog, I have an acreage but won't be getting one anytime in the next 10 yrs Just going to focus on my goldens for a while.

Nope I don't mind Valvasor is my girl's breeder and very proud of her, I also have a boy bred by Glemaray his hips scores came back a couple of months ago, total 13 which is good, under average. His temperament and intelligence is Amazing, I know I'm being a little bias but it is what he was bred for as he has many many siblings in QLD and NSW guide dog association. But we still have a ways to go with both my goldies. I too chose a boy first but i couldn't walk away from him. Was that scored by Dr Rawlinson, or the AVA? Not sure what is behind Valvasor, but I do know who they are. I know they have a bitch, about 18 months old, from my boys breeder. I don't really know them other than that. It's good that you have their support though, its something that I think is vital in all breeds really, but because they are such a popular breed, someone new entering the breed like yourself, and myself as well, really needs the support of experienced breeders to help make the right decisions :) Good luck with your girls test results. I know it wasn't Rawlinson, But i have requested him for my grls scores. In fact i have the x-rays of my boy just not the report I rang them about it last week then forgot. Guess what I'm doing first thing tomorrow morning.

Nope I don't mind Valvasor is my girl's breeder and very proud of her, I also have a boy bred by Glemaray his hips scores came back a couple of months ago, total 13 which is good, under average. His temperament and intelligence is Amazing, I know I'm being a little bias but it is what he was bred for as he has many many siblings in QLD and NSW guide dog association. But we still have a ways to go with both my goldies. I too chose a boy first but i couldn't walk away from him.