Cavalier

Cavalier 'Agro', 'defensive'??? No! I was (and remain) simply stunned by what you have claimed. It is a matter of concern, from the perspective of epidemiology, that dogs in the NW of WA are being diagnosed with distemper (and adenovirus). It brings in factors like clinical assessment and systemic involvement, the criteria for a definitive diagnosis, statistics and monitoring. That is all, but it sounds like the situation where you are is so bad it perhaps warrants some input and involvement from elsewhere. We have a National Notifiable Diseases Surveillance for humans but regrettably there is no equivalent for our companion animals! You may have no way of knowing this, but only last Tuesday there was a vet speaking on the radio here in Perth. He stated he has been in practice for 41 years and remembers seeing distemper ‘in those (long ago) years’. Modern day vets apparently have not seen actual cases of distemper and he feared that should we all become complacent about vaccinating then deadly diseases like distemper "will come back again”. Then, only 4 days later, you posted that you see distemper “quite regularly”. I would bet my life that vet has never worked in the NW of WA before.... I worked for many years in Perth and the south west and not once did I see distemper or adenovirus either. As Poodle fan has stated - remote communities in the North west are completely different to Perth and other major cities. In the veterinary community we do have a disease surveillence system however, distemper and adenovirus are not notifiable diseases. I am not "claiming" that we regularly see distemper up here. I am stating it as a fact. The reason I bring it up is people need to be aware of this when they move up here and bring their dogs to ensure they are completely up to date with the vaccinations as unvaccinated dogs are at much higher risk of contracting parvo, distemper and hepatitis than in major cities.

The companies test the efficacy by vaccinating animals, then exposing them to the virus and see how their body responds. When they get to the dose of vaccine that stops animals developing clinical disease they know what dose to put in the vaccine vials.

Do no harm.... Im curious to know why you are getting so agro and defensive? All our cases of distemper were diagnosed by measuring distemper antibody levels (IgM) and from their classical clinical signs. All of the pups were unvaccinated so the positive was not a false one due to vaccination. The reason it is not making headline news is because this is not a new disease up here - it has always been this way. The only reason we are disgnosing more is because we have many more families moving up this way to work in the mines and they are bringing their beloved pets with them. The camp dogs dont tend to get brought to the vet when they are sick. Just had a confirmed case of canine adenovirus today - puppy should be fine thank goodness!

This surprises me I'm afraid. I worked in the NW of WA for several years from 1969 and my employment involved field trips over extensive areas to work on aboriginal reserves, missions, settlements etc as well as town work. I'd just acquired my first dog as a pup and as there were no veterinarians around in those days I had his vaccine flown up on the RFDS plane then gave it to him myself. He was not vaccinated after that until we moved to Perth many years later. While in the NW, he accompanied me on my field trips and was exposed to the aboriginal camp dogs and town dogs even though he was not himself a free ranging dog. The aboriginal camp dogs typically were very malnourished. Mange was very common and infestation with internal and external parasites was always present. However, in my own expereince and that of my colleagues throughout the state there were no known outbreaks of distemper or canine infectious hepatitis among the camp dogs or town dogs in those days. The population of the whole of WA was then less than 1 million. There were no vets in most WA regions let alone isolated areas and certainly none of the aboriginal camp dogs had ever had a vaccination. Whatever herd immunity existed was not the result of vaccination! Also, I understand that the distemper virus, once outside the body cells of the host, is easily destroyed by sunlight or even exposure to room temperature for 4 days. Obviously, against all this I cannot help but be skeptical about claims of distemper cases in the NW of WA. Also, what ever happened to the beneficial sunlight up there? The timing of these distemper outbreaks co-inciding with the AVA's new recommendations that adult dogs not be vaccinated more frequently than every three years (based on WSAVA guidelines and knowledge that immunity following successful vaccination lasts a minimum of 7 years) is a little suspicious particularly when combined with the results of an industry survey reported in 1995 showing that "91% of (Australian) vets felt a change from annual vaccinations would have an adverse effect on their practice turnover" (Ref Virbac Newsletter August 1995). I cannot help but wonder what is really going on here. It does seem rather odd! Be skeptical all you like - the situation up here is, Im sure, a lot different to what it was in 1969. All our cases of distemper up here have been confirmed. In all cases the dogs were unvaccinated, came from multi-dog households and were allowed to roam the streets. Can I ask - how do you know there were no cases of distemper or hepatitis while you were in the NW? Were you testing sick dogs??

What research is this??? Prior to parvo vaccinations huge numbers of dogs died from parvo virus infections. It is now preventable....

We still see distemper quite regularly in the remote North West of WA. Not to mention our isolation ward full of parv pups.... Hi Cavailier, Is from the camp dogs spreading it ?. It is - but there is also a large number of people in the town who do not vaccinate their dogs. As there is such a large percetage of the population unvaccinated these diseases still spread around. Have also had 2 dogs with canine adenovirus 2.. Because of our situation we do not recommend using the 2 vaccination puppy protocol come vets use in cities - have seen too many pups with parvo a couple of weeks after their second vaccination. I would also we loathed to use the 3 yearly vaccine. In Perth I only vaccinated my dogs every 3-4 years as adults (had full puppy course and booster at 12 and 24 months) but they will definitely get their vaccine every year whilst we live up here!! Two more parvo came in this morning....

We still see distemper quite regularly in the remote North West of WA. Not to mention our isolation ward full of parv pups....

Being in a tick area we give about 10 injections of Dectomax every day to dogs for both tick prophylaxis and treatment for demodex. Am yet to see any adverse reactions - only positive results

Guess Im working at the wrong vet clinic....... I dont even own a car

Having extensive experience working and running veterinary practices, I can assure you cheap vets = lesser quality vets. The cheaper the vet care the lower the quality of medicine and surgery being practiced. You cannot provide high quality veterinary care on a budget... I certainly would not be shopping around for my pets health care.

That is a pretty standard price for a bitch spey. Be wary of discount desexing prices, costs have to be cut somewhere and it is usually in the quality of the anaesthetics and the use of pain relief.

That is one of the causes but there is certainly a level of heritibility with umbilical hernias, as there is with inguinal hernias. I would not be risking breeding from dogs with this condition.

There are many sizes of umbilical hernias and you cannot compare the price of each one without know how big they were to start with! We charge between $30-$150 for repair depending on the size and time taken to repair. Some are life threatening and some can be left. As far as breeding a bitch/dog with a hernia. They are highly heritable, therefore the likelyhood of pups having hernias will be greater if bred from bitches and dogs with one.

Until you actually get one of the problems mentioned you probably wont change your mind. When your dogs get a pyometra, prostatic abscess, testicular cancer or mammary cancer you might think differently about getting your dogs desexed in the future. As far as I am concerned, it should be COMPULSARY to have your dog desexed unless your are a registered breeder and have a licence registered with the local council and canine control body. It is peoples Choice to keep animals entire and to breed that causes the huge amount of puppies being bred by backyard breeders and ending up at the RSPCA and other animal shelters.

When you have a dog (or any animal for that matter) vet bills should not be 'unexpected'. Dogs gets sick, just like kids do, its a fact of life. If you are not prepared to pay the $1500 if the dog breaks its leg/catches parvo etc etc then PLEASE dont get a dog. Vaccinations and flea treatment are not the 'end point' for total dog care. Once again, im not trying to have a go at you but most people in the community dont seem to understand that if you cannot afford a pet (this includes expensive vet bills) you cannot afford to own a dog.

Just PMed you Anna, Ill definitely be there, where ever it is! My mum would probably come to so make it two of us! My obedience club starts up again mid Feb, im sure some people from here would like to come.

Im very sorry to hear it girl05. Do what you can for him to keep him comfortable. I wish you both the best.

As others have said it depends on the condition, the dogs breed and how old your dog is. Cavaliers can live out their entire normal livespan with mild heart disease with absolutely no consequence. They can also die very suddenly at a young age due to the same disease. Dogs like Dobermans with dilated cardiomyopathy have a much poorer prognosis.

I have been feeding my dogs greenies since they first came out without a problem. Any 'bone like' object can obstruct a dog bowel...including fresh meaty bones.

Both organophosphates and pyrethrins are able to be absorbed through the skin so even if you use powders or rinses they can have toxic effects. We had a dog in not long ago who was wearing a flea collar and the owner used a flea powder and the dog ended up with OP poisoning. Just been reading the latest research.....and the small amount of kowledge I have from a veterinary science degree...

We use frontline on our dogs and I find it works really well. Advantix is also a good product. Pyrethrins are actually quite toxic to dogs. Try to use a product which is "insect specific" such as frontline, revolution, sentinal, advantix. Anything with pyrethrins or organophosphates are potentially toxic to your dogs. Try to stay away from flea rinses and powders, their efficacy is questionable and toxic effects much greater.

My GSD pup is being fed a good quality commercial puppy diet, I have no intention of feeding him a vegetarian diet. Lets just stop this whole conversation now ;) I am allowed to have my own beliefs and would never allow my dogs health to be jeopardised because of them.

I guarantee you, chickens do eat meat. Chickens are also omnivorous. They scratch in the dirt and eat worms, beetles and dead mammals/chickens and other birds. Until there was the BSE scare chickens, cows, sheep etc were all fed blood and bone meal to increase their growth rates. Just a bit of trivia. There is no mammals on the face of thise planet who possesses cellulase. Ruminants and hind gut fermenters sich as horses have bacteria which produce cellulase for them. Humans and dogs also possess small numbers of these bacteria (nowhere near as many as pure herbivores). As long as my dog is happy and healthy munching on her soy protein and panir cheese, I will continue to feed it.

T-time Forgot to add, we do have chickens on our farm that we raise for eggs. They are my pets just like my dogs. Would you kill your dog to feed your chicken? I dont think so.....

Georgie-boy - I was not trying to attack you. No need to take offence I posted this topic because I hoped I could talk to someone who has fed their dog a vegetarian diet. t-time - Why would I go to those lengths? Because I have very strong beliefs and wish to uphold a a certain ethical standard in my life. Once again, my choice. As for what I will recommend to my clients. I will be recommending they feed a high quality balanced commercial diet (Eukanuba, Hills, Advance etc). Most people do not have the knowledge, time etc to feed a balanced home made diet and it can lead to many health problems in the hands of the inexperienced. Working Setters - Thankyou for your informative post. I will be sure to read the book. Totally agree with you about large scale farming and how much damage to the environment and the death of animals it causes. Rappie - congrats for getting through the vet course! There have been very limited studies of the effect of a vegetarian diet of the health of dogs and this is a topic I intend to explore when I do my very contraversial PhD! I realise extrapolating from human data is not always reliable but most scientific knowledge is gained through extrapolation and experimentation. Before this topic gets out of hand lets all just take a deep breath If I am able to formulate and feed a balanced vegetarian diet to my dogs, which they enjoy eating and has no adverse effects of their health, then why is there a problem? Just because I and others like me decide not to feed our dogs an "orthodox" doggie diet does not mean we do not care for our dogs and that we are doing the best for them.