Blackdogs

You make a good point. I think everyone could learn a little more tolerance.

I echo these sentiments!

This should work if you download Graboid. http://fullepisode.info/pedigree-dogs-exposed-three-years-on/

Deleted due to copyright.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kYDRjPqBgM&feature=g-logo&context=G2f59116FOAAAAAAAGAA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTgIZFBJojM&feature=related

The 'attack on police' fallacy we have here strikes me as a bit of a straw man defence. Suggesting things could have been handled differently had the officer altered his approach/not been swayed by media bias/been educated as to canine behaviour/etc, does not suggest an attack on Police Officers in general. Repulse is my general feeling as well. The dogs were being dogs; their behaviour did in no way warrant instant death.

If an all out brawl was going to take place then I think it would have already happened. I'm not sure I understand what else it is that you are trying to say.

There are too many replies for me to reply individually, so I'll just reply generally. I don't think that anyone here is blaming the Beagle but rather the hasty and uneducated actions of the officer. We can add hypotheticals to the situation endlessly but what happened is what happened. If the Beagle 'retaliated' we'd be in a different situation and then that would have to be evaluated, but the Beagle didn't 'retaliate' and the dogs didn't attack and I think the situation should be evaluated on face value because that's all we have to work with. Some people have tried to make the suggestions sound ridiculous, which is easy to do in any situation. Eg; 'OMG there's strays in our yard let's get someone to KILL them!!'. I think it's better to be rational about these things though and think of alternative solutions to loss of life rather than engage in petty back and forth banter. Sometimes dogs get loose. It happens. I believe there should be protocols in place that don't involve killing and I think that's reasonable, whether poeple disagree or not.

Some may scoff at my advice, but I feel dogs are very intuitive. I feel that not only should the dog have a full health check, but so should your father. Sometimes unusual loyalties are forged because of unkown medical factors.

Or if the police were aware of the situation they were going to why not take darts with them? Shoot them with those and not a bullet. (I too have not watched the video footage) Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I agree. It's that kind of flipant mentality towards the life of a dog that I dislike. Dispatching an inexperienced person with a gun and no other appropriate tools can only end one way.

Aloysha's 'background' was simply a hypothetical. They should have just dispatched more appropriate authorities in the first place if police were unsuitable. I don't think they need to be experts in canine behaviour, but a little basic training wouldn't go astray. A little common sense would be helpful as well. He could have at least observed through the window (the dogs were casually sniffing around the yard at this point) and asked the home occupiers a few questions before charging on to the scene with his gun drawn. He was ready to shoot regardless.

Woah, was that all aimed at me? I just don't understand why the police were called first instead of an animal services officer. Surely such a serious situation would have warranted them getting out there pronto. Not trying to be cute and cuddly, just trying to see the logic. Crikey. :laugh: The internet is serious business.

The dogs were only mildly interested in the Beagle and there was a lot of play behaviour shown. A dog in high prey or aggression drive will normally be more focussed on the 'victim' and more apt to dispatch it. The Beagle was vocalising in fear when the brindle dog apporached for play. This all indicates to me that it's doubtful there was an attack on the Beagle. Sure the Beagle was frightened, and so were the men in the house, but I don't think is reason enough to shoot. I disagree that the dogs' actions are not defendable. It all seems fairly normal and dog-like to me.

:laugh: Don't be shocked, it's an internet forum! I always expect disagreement. However, I do have to say that I really don't identify with the position that supports the officer's actions in any way. I can't identify with your position, it seems to shift. Are you saying the dog was aggressive and its aggression was justified? Or are you saying it wasn't human aggressive? The property owner had the right to have the dogs removed from his property as quickly as possible. Because the dogs were unsafe to handle, they were shot. If these dogs had been hassling livestock in that manner instead of hassling another dog, nobody would even have bothered to try to handle them before shooting. I can see why my terminology has confused you. I don't consider a dog who responds aggressively to a genuine threat to be 'human aggressive'. I tend to reserve that term for dogs who regularly display aggression towards humans when unprovoked. I don't think the dogs were given a chance to show whether or not they were safe to handle. I don't agree with shooting dogs that are near livestock either, though I know a lot of people would disagree with that stance.

My Schipp enjoys dreamily watching my screen saver: Coloured bubbles floating across the screen.

They don't have to be animal psychologists, but basic traning would be beneficial. It might be within their rights, but I think this action should be reserved for extreme situations and I diagree that this situation falls into that category. I don't disagree that this is needed but police already have many things to learn in their cadetship or traineeship. it is of little use offerng animal behaviour as a supplementary course for some either, as who knows which general duties police person would respond to an animal problem I would imagine that learning a automatic response to such a threat (again I must reiterate that I have not seen the footage) such as trained for the use of deadly force may take longer than GOVERNMENT are willing to allow or facilitate. I hate cop bashing, and at the end of the day people must remember that they are public servants and therefore if you don't like how they operate voice your opinion to governent. This isn't about cop bashing. This is about asking people to determine if they believe this situation could have been avoided. In saying that however, police, like any other member of the public, should have to justify their actions when the end result is the firing of a weapon.

Overall is a very big name in small animal behavioural pharmacology so it would be hard to find a paper that didn't cite her work, but here are some references I've found that are available on the internet: http://www.vin.com/proceedings/Proceedings.plx?CID=WSAVA2007&Category=&PID=18202&O=Generic http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.2044-3862.2008.tb00529.x/abstract This one refers to air-transport, the basic message is the same, the dog is sedated but still shows the physiological signs of anxiety: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12146895 Thanks, I will have a look at those.

:laugh: Don't be shocked, it's an internet forum! I always expect disagreement. However, I do have to say that I really don't identify with the position that supports the officer's actions in any way.

They don't have to be animal psychologists, but basic traning would be beneficial. It might be within their rights, but I think this action should be reserved for extreme situations and I diagree that this situation falls into that category.

And there we can agree to differ. I find little reason for society to tolerate displays of aggression by dogs towards humans outside of their own property when there are options for retreat. I don't consider it 'normal'. Indeed, this dog didn't just not retreat.. it approached a person who wasn't waving a stick at it.. the police officer's posture was cautious but IMO not threatening. Territorial aggression I'll consider to be a little different. How a dog behaves in defence of its territory is something we've been harnessing for millenia And for aggressive displays to be tolerated in a breed developed for a very low aggression towards humans.. ah.. no. As to why it should be tolerated and managed by emergency service workers?? No idea really. If you want to own a dog that behaves like this, that's your business but its also your responsibility to contain it. Human aggressive roaming dogs? Only one likely ending for them really. The police officer came after the dog had been taunted by the house occupants and even then there was no attempt to bite, there was just barking. There's no way of knowing what the breed of these dogs was. I'm not sure how that's relevant, though. A dog responding to a threat is not necessarily 'human aggressive' particularly not one that is barking over biting. It's the dog's way of saying "don't do that". Certainly when a dog warns a child who is taunting it most people tend to sympathise with the dog.

Not an emergency - so you've heard the dispatch call? How do you jump to the conclusion that breed motivates what happens next? Hard to think straight with a large dog approaching you in a less than friendly manner. I've already said I don't think he should have shot it but I can understand why he did. What sees you dealing with large aggressive dogs on a regular basis - are you a ranger? I go and assess the situation and if I don't feel qualified to deal with the situation I call in those who are. Having said that, I think all offficers should have training in the areas in which they are required to work. I'd prefer not to say what I do for privacy reasons, but I am required to have a very good understanding of dog behaviour and I do deal with a lot of strange/stray dogs.

Wow, so many people with such clouded judgement. But one online viewer who knows what was really going on. What intrigues me is that you seem unwilling to consider the concept that the breed of the dogs involved is clouding your judgement. Of course hearing one's pet dog screaming in terror couldn't possibly influence how anyone would perceive this as playing out. Totally irrelevant. And here's the thing. You're not standing there, having heard that dog screaming as you walked into the yard, having been called to an "emergency" and being approached by a strange dog and having only a firearm to defend yourself from what you perceive to be an aggressive dog. Don't you think that might have a teeny bit of influence on how you consider what happens next? All I can say is its best to judge the behaviour of the dog in front of you and make no assumptions, good OR bad about what its motives are based on its breed. Far safer either way. Many dogs do NOT react aggressively to humans by the way.. I don't find any reason to justify that dog's aggression.. but nice to know that you saw it for what it was. I don't believe I'm the only one who has commented who holds this stance. I don't think we should shoot first and ask questions later. I think we should treat all stray dogs with the care and respect they deserve in a way that doesn't encourage escalation. I think its aggression was completely justified. If some stranger came up to you as you were walking down the street and started angrily waving a big stick in your face, how would you react? Some dogs, like yours, might respond with a higher flight response, but the fight response in this situation is fairly normal as well.

In many places, emergency response is limited to police, fire or ambulance. Who is the 'someone' else you would call? Police do walk away from scenes and await the arrival of appropriate resources, but generally not when they perceive there is imminent danger to life or when they themselves are threatened. What I see here is people finding excuses for the reason two large offlead dogs are in someone's yard, terrifying their dog who is screaming in fear (and for all we know could be wounded) and approaching first the resident and then the police in a highly threatening posture. I don't give a toss what breed it is but my guess is that police officers, who get to deal with large aggressive dogs on an all too regular basis, might feel differently. What I also see is that there is a real and genuine need to educate more people about canine body language. Nothing about the brindle dog's behaviour towards people in that clip suggested defensive behaviour. The behaviour towards the Beagle, in my opinion, was predatory. And I'l say this about the Beagle. If it had offered any kind of retaliation, my guess is that it would be dead. That situation was not an emergency. It's only perceived to be such because of the look of the dogs involved. I doubt there was imminent danger to anyone and if there was it was due to poor situational handling. I deal with large aggressive dogs on a regular basis and I still wouldn't shoot in this situation. Everything about the dog's body language suggested defensive behaviour, in my opinion. The Beagle didn't retaliate and neither you nor I could predict what would happen in that situation. The tan dog seems to be a little prey driven but there's no follow through and as soon as the Beagle stops the commotion it loses interest. I think there needs to be less panic and more thinking.

Can you give some examples? Bear in mind that "do nothing" probably wasn't an option here. I find the Beagle's terrified screaming really distressing. More than one dog suffered here. If there's anger to be directed at a person here, save it for the owner of the dogs that put them in this situation. The police are those called in to act when irresponsible people don't.. and yet they are the ones being judged here. Go figure. If officers are not trained to deal with loose dogs then someone else should be called to the scene. The terrified screaming of the Beagle is distressing if you believe the Beagle is being attacked. I didn't see an attack, but two rambunctious dogs trying to play with a defensively vocalising dog. A lot of people's dogs get out and I don't believe all of those owners are bad people. Mistakes happen. A dog shouldn't have to pay with its life. So what could a better trained person have done to diffuse the situation? A friendly approach would have been a good start. The dog that was shot was acting defensively because of the hostility it was shown. The house occupiers should have been advised to keep away from the dogs until professional help arrived. I suggest that if these dogs had been a different breed people would see this video differently and this situation may not have escalated in the first place. I think that preconceived breed notions clouded the judgement of the house occupiers, the police officer and I believe they're also clouding the judgement of some responders here.

I actually did discuss it, in case you skimmed over my post because it wasn't agreeing with you. You chose not to comment on the prospect I raised of there being more to the story, is that the same as wanting to discuss it? Or is the discussion reserved for those who all agree it is wrong? In short, can anyone here tell me one good reason why official people, whether police or animal control who whoever, who have duties relating to protecting the public, should be spending time and effort and risking the safety of that public as well as themselves, offering dogs like this options? When there are so many dogs out there that no one has time for, such as well behaved former pets, whiling away their days in shelters. Time, effort and money should go where it's most deserved. If that was a person committing a violent act on a defenceless and tied up small dog would we be crying out for vengeance? I was referring to the 'old, get over it' remark which seemed to suggest that although you offered some discussion you really didn't want to be bothered. I suppose I could have interpreted that incorrectly, though. There could always be more to any story we see on the internet, so we have to go off what we have. Reading the situation as it presents itself here, I think the officer did the wrong thing. If the officer is not equipped to deal with dogs other than shooting them then I think someone else needs to be called to the scene. I'm not sure what you mean by 'dogs like this' as I saw some defensive barking, (which would have been interpreted much differently coming from a Golden Retriever) and that's about it. The dogs appeared to be attempting to play with the Beagle who was fearfully vocalising in response. I didn't see any violent acts. These dogs could be very loved dogs whose fence had blown over, or someone might have accidentally left the gate open (mistakes happen to the best of us). Why shouldn't we try to preserve their lives?