Blackdogs

Hah, I like the bit on page 105 in regards to a working dog: It's interesting looking at the pictures of those dogs. Many of the dogs look far more functional. Some of them, like the British Bulldog are more functional in some ways, like reduced brachycephally, but are fairly disfunctional in others, like structure. What I do notice though with many of these dogs (though particularly apparent with the Bulldog) is the lack of uniformity. It makes me wonder whether this is where we come unstuck. ETA: Check out the rough coated Beagles!

You can't predict for individual dogs anyway. Just because a breed is given a group average 'life' of 14 + years (or whatever), doesn't mean every dog of that breed will do so. Nor can you predict which ticket is going to win Lotto. But you can get an idea of what the odds are. That's what the stats tell you. I've never bought a Lotto ticket. I'd rather put my love out to a dog that's likely to be with me for a decade or more. It hurts so much when they die. I am not sure the breed statistics are all important. To the best I can figure, some lines within a breed live much longer than others. I have been accused of a broken record. Here's the single place where I repeat most. I wish the pedigree world would track date and cause of death as well as the date of birth and the number of pups in the litter. That would provide breeders with a basis for breeding FOR longevity, and away from cancer-prone lines. . . . and lines prone to other diseases that have a known hereditary component. It really pissed me off when I went into the WACA to record the death of my foundation bitch and was told, in effect: "why bother . . . some of our members have hundreds of dead dogs on their books." Hear, hear. More emphasis on health, longevity and temperament, please.

You name it, they're good at it. That's why I got the breeds I did. Kelpie and Schipperke!

This thread is so far removed from the scientific data-type thread I envisaged. Incredibly moving, so interesting. My heart dog was hit by a car at age 11 and died instantly. She was an intelligent, intuitive little terrier x. The first dog that was really mine. She was with me through so much. Thank-you for cementing my love of dogs and changing the course of my life. I love you and miss you.

Following on from another thread that I do not wish to hijack, I would be interested in hearing personal accounts of longevity, or lack thereof in their own dogs. 1. How long have your past dogs lived? 2. What breeds were they? 3. How did they die? ETA: As always, I like to see pictures!

Of course. I know I was extremely lucky, as were these other dogs. I'm sorry to hear of your sad story. Someone recently told me a story about their friend's Lab who decided to jump off the edge off a cliff face. Of course he didn't survive. No dog is indestructible.

Wow! Lucky pup!

I have no idea! I alwaus joked with people that she's indestructible because she just bounces, but this was ridiculous.

I was seriously panicked as I initially couldn't access the area to which she fell and had no idea of her condition. Does your Schipp seem unaffected by gravity as well?

Incredible. If I had fallen five metres I'm sure I would have broken bones.

One 10 month old Schipperke and one 5 year old Kelpie. Hoping to get a working GSd in the future.

Tonight, in a freak accident my 6kg Schipperke jumped over a five metre drop and landed on concrete. She has been assessed by two vets and has no injuries muscular or otherwise. Anyone else have a rubber dog?

You're presumptive and incorrect again. And pointlessly condescending. But, discussion: To consider or examine by argument, comment etc; talk over or write about, especially to explore solutions, debate. I think what people have seen as frustrating here is a mentality that wants to see these dogs in a positive light. That in itself is not a bad thing, it is nice to support dogs yes. But to blindly ignore the behaviours that have been clearly shown to have an aggressive or anti social bent is not supporting dogs in general. It could actually be seen to be detrimental to the ongoing public image of dogs. Dog owners / breeders etc often spend considerable effort in promoting dogs and responsible dog ownership. Along with this comes a responsibility or desire to uphold those values and not support the opposite, ie irresponsible ownership and blatantly anti social dog behaviour. So people who give a hoot about the public image of dogs as pets find it deeply disturbing when folks seem so keen and quick to undermine that ethic based upon an emotional and not necessarily rational response. It seems publicly detrimental to dogs, and also to bull breeds in particular, to condemn a decisive action that is a direct intervention in this aggressive incident. How much better does it look from the outside looking in for a knowledgable dog person to say something like "Yes that was terrible to see that dog get shot, but if that dog's owners had been responsible and caring that dog would not have been placed in that situation. Blame for what happened to that dog lies squarely with it's owner/s who have failed their pet, and failed societies expectations." I'm bored with your indignation. It's time for me to use a phrase you used earlier. Get over it.

What colour?

Where do you get these beautiful Border Collies from? I've alwaus wanted a relatively short coated working Border with a merle patterning and erect ears.

How incredibly adorable.

Who gets to decide: generally the dogs and the people around them. Environment and culture impact the selective process of a breed. Therefore a hunting dog specifically bred for pigs and utilized in the Australian environment (ie people, landscape and other animals) would be unique to all other hunting dogs. Good answer. A dog isn't a breed when some governing body decide that's it's a breed. Breeds were around long before National Kennel Councils. A breed is a type that breeds true to function and form.

You asked at the beginning Blackdogs, for people's opinions. You have been given opinions from knowledgable law enforcement perspectives, and from knowledgable dog behaviour perspectives saying yes, the actions were justified. You have also been given opinions based on emotion and even possible breed bias. That's all well and good, but it seems after all that you are not interested in discussing the issue, only complaining about the cop's actions, defending the dog's actions, and seeking others to join you in that. it a thread for discussion or for cop bashing and ratbag dog sympathising? Oh I have been interested in discussing the issue, hence my discussion of the issue for the enirety of the thread. In fact, I think my discussion of the issue has been far less hyperbolic and emotional than some of the respondants here (eg, 'cop bashing', 'ratbag dog sympathising'), so I'm not sure what you're talking about. I understand that you are a police officer, but people disagreeing with the cop's actions aren't taking a personal stab at you. Relax, it's just an internet debate! :laugh: As for the rest, well, I'll simply be reiterating if I continue to debate the issue and I get bored with cicular discussion, so it's time for me to agree to disagree. ;)

They are DOGS aren't they? Are you suggesting that bull breeds somehow display unique body language? If you are seeing taut, not relaxed muscle and a high degree of focus, then chances are you are seeing prey, not play behaviour. You are backing up my position. There wasn't near enough focus to conclude that was prey behaviour.

They are DOGS aren't they? Are you suggesting that bull breeds somehow display unique body language? I'm suggesting that different breeds have different display tendencies and some are more difficult to read than others, yes.

The dog bows twice but the body language in that video isn't playful at all. The dog moves rigidly as in prey drive with a high tail, rather than loosely and bouncily as it would if in relaxed play. The playful dog will go from side to side as it avoids eye contact. That dog was focussed. There is a big difference in how a dog plays with another dog, and a dog that plays with a toy or other prey item. Many of us would have seen it in dogs and recognise that sort of prey/play in this video. Have a look at the chart to see the difference between a true play bow, a stalking posture and the prey bow. Unfortunately the cartoons cannot capture the minutiae or the motion of the dog. But it's pretty clear that the dog was up to no good. Sorry, I disagree. I can only imagine most of you haven't had much to do with Bull breeds. The brindle dog in the video was all about play in my opinion.

And does your pack go away, sniff around, pee on a few things and then come back to their prey intermittently even through the prey is moving and vocalising?

I can read my dogs pretty well actually. I know when he is happy, anxious etc, although I am the only person in my house that can. The OH has no idea. There are only a few things that I don't entirely understand but we will be going to training to fix that anyway. Bella on the other hand doesn't have an aggressive bone in her body and I have never had any concerns yet. I find it scary that there are so many seemingly trigger happy people... I am glad you don't live in my neighbourhood.. there would be dead dogs everywhere ;) :laugh: Good, you be very scared of us then. Lock up your pitbulls. Don't be too sure you will learn how to understand dog communication at training. Behaviour assessment is a different frield than behaviour modification. You will be lucky if that sort of thing is discussed during training, even if you are fortunate enough to have an instructor who understands it themselves. I posted a chart here the other week about canine postures, I will have a look around when I get home tonight and see whatother resources I can find. It's probably worth doing a seperate thread, as the ''language'' is common to all dogs. What does your chart say about play bowing? Or did you miss that?

It was running towards the police officer and barking directly at him. If there was a large dog coming towards me like that I would be pretty freaked out too. Officers are trained to be calm under pressure. This officer stormed out to the yard, gun in hand ready to shoot regardless.

Excellent video (aside from the spelling). Thanks for sharing.