Tralee

Well, Chalice is the second on the right. Of course, I knew her intimately but she was the fittest dog among them.

I think you mean moving back to Italy. Of course, who wouldn't?

It looks like a working farm property to me. What do you mean not working dogs? Are LGD's not livestock?

Well, I see a lot more than that. Bigger yes, but also almond shaped eyes, excellent feathering on the legs and tail, smaller ears, absence of a snippy head, elimination of an undulating lip, and more. My point is very well reinforced by what the Italians are producing and have been producing for over a decade. "We have not kept pace with the Italians who are producing dogs that are, far and beyond, superior to our dogs. They win BIS at internationals for crissakes. On their day athey are the best dogs in the world." Best in the world at what? Turning up at a dog show? Superior, how exactly - do they work better than our dogs do? I (excuse the expression) don't give a fast one what you think the "Internationals" are doing & where they might be doing it (whatever "it" may be??) - I care that we have breeders, here in Australia, that are doing the very best they can to produce a sound, hardy working dog that truly represents the standard & is capable of doing what the breed originally, ought to do. Well I courteously reply to your question although I don't give a fast one for your tone. Dogs in Italy have been restored to their ancient roles of protecting livestock against bears, wolves, foxes and thieves. The conservation efforts around the areas where Maremma are employed have resulted in the return of bears, wolves and foxes in greater numbers. The Maremma is more in demand to work livestock not less. The fact that here in Australia the breed has been coopted to work out of situ does not place the dog into its correct context and as you put it: "truly represent the standard & is capable of doing what the breed originally, ought to do." If the breeders here want to produce a sub-breed, fine. I like the Italian dogs over what has and is being produced here, and I know for a fact I am not alone. I side with the dogs, its not personal. That is my prerogative. To each his own.

If you can't see the point when you look at those dogs then why are you in here? Do you have Maremmas, yourself ? I have Maremmas & I'm struggling to see your point - what, they should be bigger? more coat? cos that's all I see from the pics - nobody here has the chance to put hands on or observe these dogs Well, I see a lot more than that. Bigger yes, but also almond shaped eyes, excellent feathering on the legs and tail, smaller ears, absence of a snippy head, elimination of an undulating lip, and more. My point is very well reinforced by what the Italians are producing and have been producing for over a decade. "We have not kept pace with the Italians who are producing dogs that are, far and beyond, superior to our dogs. They win BIS at internationals for crissakes. On their day athey are the best dogs in the world."

If you can't see the point when you look at those dogs then why are you in here? Do you have Maremmas, yourself ?

https://www.facebook.com/video/embed?video_id=564372096926847

:rofl: :rofl: perché le cose non cambieranno ma non lo dicevo cosi. ho detto che gli italiani vogliono cambiare il standard

Hi smashtank and welcome Parvo persists in the ground for five years so not putting puppy down before vaccination and until 12-13 weeks is well advised. Soil can be carried onto footpaths and floors too, so puppy should only be on secure areas. Generally puppy is kept away from other dogs too. Its OK to take puppy to a supervised reputable Puppy School at a VET clinic. The first 4-5 weeks is time for you to bond with your puppy. Puppy learns its routine but more importantly learns where security and dependancy is. It is a time to be selfish and keep puppy all to yourself, they are only 8-13 weeks old once in their life. You'll be busy doing toilet training and such like anyhow~ Anyway, puppy will sleep most of the time. Good Luck and thanks for the question. T

Hi Leela and PJ and welcome to DOL Give the pet grade chicken a total miss. I give my lot, wings and drumsticks, and only but them on special from Woolworths, Coles, Lenards or our local butcher. Usually $2.50 to $3.00 a kilo. I would not give puppy, necks for the very reason you have observed. Wait until he's older, but my lot don't get necks at all mainly because they don't chew them. They like the wings, drumsticks and chicken frames. Once again, welcome aboard. T.

So what did you think of the pups head? The changes were listed: I can't really be clearer than that.

"Foley should be placed into protective custody when he is released." Absolutely attrocious behaviour that is inexcusable. Nobody that 'mad' should be out walking around our streets anyway.

You would have to ask the CMPA directly espinay2. But there always has to be room for admitting: Oh We got this bit wrong. The tag to the peice I translated was: As can be seen, the cpma is not blind but it always works for the improvement of the breed. The standard is open. Breeding is not a closed shop. Noone has a monopoly or a hegemony on how the future of the breed will advance. Regards.

The standard is a fiction. Its been made up, its an ideal based on what people believe in any historical milieu. You cannot dictate to evolution. If you think genetic manipulation, either selective breeding or in vitro, has made us Gods of the Cosmos then you are deluded. I don't think I have ever heard a more shallow, philosophically flawed view.

While we are talking about faults, check this out. The standard is not a static entity, but is and should be constantly under revision. Translation: "Infact, the club [The Maremmano Abruzzese Club (cmpa)], has proposed to the ENCI [italian Kennel Club] and the FCI [international Kennel Federation] that a modification of the standard, in regards to the head, the weight, the thickness of the muzzle and other measurements, be given merit by the technical committee. As seen, the cpma is not blind but it always works for the improvement of the breed. These comments were made in relation to the dog shown, who is just four and a half months old.

I am so sorry. What, was it the bill? :D Glad to hear Oscar is being Oscar, what would we do without them? GWS Oscar. P

Oh, for chrys sake. I didn't put the bloody gene there. I only have dogs that were produced by others. I haven't bred with the damn dogs but I didn't cull them either. And I defy anybody to find a better home than the one I found for Lumen. The owners are quite 'au fait' about his colouring, and have been ecstatic over his temperament, appearance and working ability. There have been no reports of ill health since we were in contact less than a month ago. I have to decide between what the Fathers of the Breed are doing and the unproven conjectures and projections of dogs in the new world. Sure dogs have issues, but correlation is not causation. And, NONE of my dogs have had any issues. You should be pocking the stick at those who have "affected" dogs and asking them questions about where they got them from. Lesson learned here: The less said the better.

my thoughts too. his fur also isn't the typical white You are talking about the pup on the grooming table. He is very young, about 5-6 weeks old. Pups have blue eyes that turn darker. And he needs a bath, his coat is pure white. Here he is at home, when he was older

No, quite correct, but on a dog forum there has to be a common language. Between totally depigmented and black there is pele rosa. The skin is completely pink too. I didn't introduce the term liver in relation to Maremma it was mentioned by another DOLer who helped out during another thread. I've had one and despite the concerns about breeding they are quite striking. Sometimes I called her Monte Carlo like the Arnott's biscuit.

I make observations. What is there, is there for all to see. I don't over extrapolate to create issues that don't exist. Much is conjecture and wishful projection, based on correlation that remains unproven. All the data is not in and may not be in for some time. It is simple folly to make judgements, rulings and condemnations when no evidential case can be made. Well thats one way to look at it - I think its simply folly to continue to breed that fault especially knowing the potential for it to be linked with other serious conditions such as hypothyroidism, cancer and a bunch of other things with stacks of evidence to show they are linked to the same enzyme issues that create snow nose and lack of pigment. Well, I would like to say I trust your judgement, and I agree with you about a lot of things, but without posting references to the claims you make about some malevolent enzyme then it is just heresay. And, let it not be said that I have bred a pink nose dog. I have not. Do the Italians breed pink nose dogs? Well, I don't know but I think they value the gene pool much more highly than those who advocate destroying pink nose pups. Chalice had a pink nose. Her working ability surpassed the other dogs, her tolerance of strangers when off property was unequalled, and her affection for me outshone the other dogs. I will never accept that a dog with a pink nose has no value. So to date it is only a potential. Exactly, any dog can get cancer, it is not unique to the Maremma. And, it still remains to be shown that 'pele rosa' Maremma are predisposed to cancer. We still have a long way to go with Genetics and dogs are not a high priority. But what can be proven is that I had a perfectly healthy Maremma bitch who simply had what I expect is a double recessive gene for pigment. No other issues were evident.