Tralee

The question is: Should unvaccinated pups be walking all over the floor at the Vet? The related question is: Should unvaccinated pups be put on the ground? The advice generally given is not to put unvaccinated pups on the ground or let them socialise with other dogs. The learned advice is only allow them to be on the ground or to interact with other dogs if you know the area and the dogs. Vet clinics need to be approached with some scepticism. We don't know the area or the dogs that hve been there recently. I'd have to be quizzical about someone telling me "Our clinic is not like other clinics." Would I take 5 day old pups that need health checks and dew claws removed to an area I had doubts about? Would I take them back at 6-8 weeks for vaccination to the same area? This is one consideration in caring for my dogs. But, clearly there are other things to be concerned about. We would all like the balance sheet for Vets to be favourable. It doesn't always happen. However, I am hopeful that the situation will change. Truth be known. Px

That is my worse fear. We have had a couple, no several, invasive surgeries and I always get very worried. Of course, Vets and hospitals have to be viewed with a balanced perspective. I do. But golden staph has been over taken by superbugs. Barrier nursing just doesn't work. These bugs have evolved in hospitals for crikes sake. There are no sterile conditions. You just have to be lucky, or very careful. Px

I am really sorry but that is like saying you are probably quite safe in a hospital with Golden Staph. Vets should be a last resort. If some Clinic wants to set themselves up as a 'Pet Resort" amongst the sick, injured, diseased and dying then they have their loyalties misplaced. Puppy schools are responsibly conducted 'off-site.' At least they are by those who want to maintain their public perception as well as their revenue. Px

Hi Steve. :) Thanks. I've also added - Animal Care and Protection Act 2001 & Animal Management (Cats and Dogs) Act 2008 to my files. I already have one. It's a prefix. It's not on the microchips but is on all the pedigree certificates. I would be making a submission for Option 4. My reasons. Well what actually is the ratio of dog numbers to persons required for adequacy of care. Also, what about older dogs being rehomed? That should also be considered. We can still be blindsided by the fly-by-nighters hiding under the umbrella of 'rescue' as was highlighted in Leo's story. Thanks again Px

Hi unuscornu Mine are mostly terms of endearment. Sooki -- Sook Sook, Sooki Sue. Winja -- Big Dog, Mellow Yellow (he keeps peeing on Sooki when she stops for a pee during walks) Flynnch -- Flynn, Fly, Chalice -- Chali, Chai, Bubbie, Big Girl.

We've been to five different Vets in four different major towns over the last seven years. Please don't ask. In the final analysis. Vet Clinics are not places to hang out at. They are strictly for sick and injured animals only. Many call themselves a hospital. My conclusion, do not take your dog to a Vet unless it is absolutely necessary. Broken leg, Paralysis tick, snake bite, dog bait certainly. But Puppy School? Not in a Vet clinic when it can be avoided. We've been to three puppy schools but never on the floor of a Clinic. And certainly not during a Parvo outbreak. I hope this helps. Px

The class I am going to is a vet they apparently disinfect before the class starts.. I trust they do .... I wouldn't be going to puppy class at a Vet where they have had a footwash out the front all summer. No way. I made this same enquiry on here seven years ago. The pros have to outway the cons. This year the cons are in the ascendancy. I would be asking for a neutral area where no dogs go or have been, or waiting for the next class at another Vet. Px

You mean in 2010? Is it still as bad as it was then? Is there still a parvo epidemic currently? No. Nov/Dec 2011. We're in the Northern rivers and it has been a bad year for ticks and Parvo. Guess that's why the Vets have been off their game a bit. But another poster mentioned that Parvo has been bad all over this summer. Anyway, Parvo lasts for about five years so that's mostly irrelvant. If I don't know the area then I don't put them on the ground. Simple. There are no guarantees but you can still be careful. Px

Quite a few times now I have seen you advertising your website in your posts. As someone who likes to quote forum rules at everyone else, maybe you should take your own advice. I should retract my last reply since the General Items over-rule Rule 10 namely: I have promoted a recognised ANKC pure bred dog breed while in discussion with other forum members. The discussion being; the perception that the use of the Limited register can be misconstrued, as evidenced by the OP. No canvasing, no hawking, no PR. However, I did hold my dogs up as an example.

Hi Bellackcs. I wouldn't take any animal to a Vet unless it was absolutely necesssary. And certainly not an incompletely vaccinated young pup. When puppy schools have been run at Vet Clinics they have been in neutral areas. But even then there's risks. A puppy may be incubating Parvo at puppy school or it could be on someone's shoes. It's always a tradeoff between socialisation and risk. But if you're not stupid and take 6 week old pups into town and let them run around in someone's backyard during a parvo epidemic like happened here, then the pups usualy fare pretty well. The advice is well placed. Don't put them on the ground if you don't know the area. Px

Quite a few times now I have seen you advertising your website in your posts. As someone who likes to quote forum rules at everyone else, maybe you should take your own advice. OK I am not advertising a busines or promoting a website. Its a Dogz Online website. However, if the line is blurred I am happy to refine my references to more specific sources.

Thunderbirds are go! :D

True, better examples might never be shown but I would choose from a line of winners for a show prospect. The dog show system is not without flaws, like anything human. Shows always produce more sour grapes than sweet ones too. True again There are some dogs (Maremma) working in paddocks who never see a show ring but are absolutely stunning in comparison. I think that is a good sign. But true also there can only be one winner per show. One day, somewhere in Aus it will be a Maremma. Px

Just on that point. It doesn't matter if there is one dog in the ring or 20 they should be being compared to the standard not each other. If individuals put pups that did not conform well to the standard on the limited register, instead of just comparing them to their own sire/dam perhaps the time taken for amazing examples to hit the ring would take a little less time.... That all being said, I think depending on GENETICS it may be necessary for more than the best pups to be bred from to preserve genetic diversity and to maintain certain features. But this works in reverse, some pups should be desexed if they are even slightly less than perfect because there genes are over represented in the population. Improving on the sire and dam is a personal achievement but I will point out that I have seen in the ring an entire litter. They were ALL an improvement on the Dam but only two deserved to be in the ring. Improving on crap can still leave you slightly less crappy crap...... That's exactly the approach I have taken. We need to aim to improve the breed but genetic stock requires using dogs that are 'off' standard. By that I mean dogs that only vary slightly from the standard, not dogs with eliminating faults. That's where I am at this point of time. However, I don't see the Maremma getting BIS here within the next decade whereas it happens and is not uncommon in Europe. I think the new grand title criteria will go some way to arresting the questionable advancement of some lines of dogs. Lastly, I was not entrusted with crap and was in the invidious but priveleged position of proving myself with the dogs I was given. The first I titled with acclaim. The second was sent with trust and with acknowledgement for that achievement. I know all this sounds like PR but it has taken some time for me to get on the same page as others with wiser heads on calmer shoulders. I won't get a Maremma to BIS by breeding crap or allowing dogs that should be on the limited register to sully the breeding stocks. Thanks Jumabaar

Yep A dog's collar should be just tight enough so that it can get out of it in an emergency.

Well, I wasn't going to say that is so many words. But, its not usually a major issue, on a Sunday afternoon, until it becomes obvious that some dogs within a breed are going tragically awry and that those lines will become reinforced and perpetuated by those dogs. They're only human, and they have preferences as well. However, in a minority of cases, it is a serious issue and should be sensibly brought to the table for discussion. But perhaps not here. OT Px

Well I think I have acknowledged exactly the points you are making. If I had two Italian dogs, and I can tell you which two at this point in time I would take, then I would have no issue with using the limited register. But our scope is - To Improve the Breed - and while I am happy, when I compare my dogs to some others, with what I was ultimately entrusted with when starting out, I can still only work with what I've got. That I have done and have been in awe of what's been thrown by my two. Also I have their breeders to vouchsafe for what I have been given. So, Pat is looking at thousands of dogs, I'd be surprised to learn the number of Maremma in Australia. We don't have specialty shows and Royals are about the only opportunity to run dogs off against quality competition. So irrespective of the yardstick, and we must remember that the Maremma is being brought back from the indiscriminate breeding by entrepeuners over decades past who threw their conformation out, we can and do improve on the parents. However, it is questionable that some dogs are going in that direction. It is different if you have a BIS Breed. Then, a limited register makes much more sense. I just wouldn't put a dog on the Limited Register if it doesn't belong there. Px

Well I think you mean wait until it all goes sour. I'm not deliberately doing anything that could be reasonably criticised But I know what you meant. What I don't like is getting phone calls from an experienced Maremma owner telling me that the excellent breeding bitch they were sent has not survived its first year, or equally from rich Italians who couldn't be bothered to go and rescue a dog isolated in the floods. It is hard to make a critical comment about dogs that I have seen which obviously, not only should have been on the limited register but, should not have been produced in the first place without sounding 'troll' like. So I won't. :D My dogs are availabe to view by anyone at any time. Arawn :)

But Maremma are under-represented in the show ring so there is less to compare. The show quality is improving. At least I hope it is so lets not go there. But my two dogs are titled and justifiably so. I don't want to sound arrogant but which one of their pups was not show or breeding quality? What I will say is that dogs were chosen for show and breed homes because they were superior to the others. But that means they were an improvement on their parents not that the others were inferior to their parents. All worthy of the main register. Lets face it we're not talking hundreds even dozens of dogs here. I don't want to sound rude, but in the interest of our objectives - To Improve the Breed - If you are producing dogs that obviously have to go on the Limited Register then -- hello !!!! Some difference I would have thought. Regards Px

Some do, but our 'market' is different. We might breed for working temperament and then the dynamic changes. I don't, but you get my point. I had a dog that could have been moved on to the Limited Register because it was cited for temperament. Now, the dog is the most 'mellow' character anyone could want. For us, the limited register has a limited usefulness. When I send a dog off to 'work' I am more concerned that the dog stays alive long enough to justify breeding it in the first place. Don't get me started on perfectly good placements that turn out to be less than desirable. Px

oakway But its not necessary here. When someone tells me they don't want to show, or breed, then I accept that. The difference is, I know where my dogs are and what they're doing. I have one dog out of three litters that is being shown. And that is sad because there were others that would have shown well. I have one dog out of three litters being used to breed. And that is sad because there were others that would have bred well. I don't use the Limited register because I don't need to. That doesn't mean to say I wouldn't use it if I had to. But then I would probably send the puppy somewhere else. I have not done anything unethical at all. I treat all puppy inquiries with dignity. 'tis all Px

If someone is smart enough to get a purebred, pedigreed, registered dog then talking down to them or making fools out of them is not going to go un-noticed. I only know how hard it is turning perfectly good homes away, at puppytime, because decisions have to be made about who can take the dogs. It would be hypocritical to try to tell others they can't do what I'm doing. I don't want people telling me I can't show or I'm not savvy enough to be able to join the right two dogs together. That's the CCC's job anyway. Px

No. that's not what I said. I said new puppy owners don't like being treated like idiots. Limited register might have its place with many breeds. But I am so lucky that, infrequently when puppy time comes around, there is a large choice of where the puppies go to. Do they use them to breed? Very few. Do I know who is breeding? Yes, because they usually ask for a breeding one and send follows ups of the litters. Heraldus in Hawaii Are the breeding dogs extra special out of the litter? Of course they are. How many? Well I can name them all and tell you where they went? I am always happy to help clear up any confusion. Px

Puppy does not sleep on the bed for logistical reasons (my bed is 6 feet from the floor, if she jumped/fell off it wouldn't be pretty), but I don't believe that giving her what she wants now and trying to re-train her to something different later would be very helpful? Plus, she doesn't want to sleep when she wakes up, she wants to play. Puppy needs to develop first before she can be trained. The first few months is the time to establish a bond, 24/7. Good Luck

Hi minimax Geez 14 weeks is puppy time. 4am on the bed, go back to sleep. Young puppy is insecure, and needs to be under your feet most of the time. Have you ever noticed how they sit between your ankles? Security. Enjoy your puppy and let your puppy enjoy you. New puppy - no sleep 'till its older. Px