Tralee

I am currently nursing someone else's dog post-operative. It been nearly four months and he has the strangest eating habits, he doesn't eat like any of my other dogs. He never attacks food but always waits patiently before eating. At night, he will often eat during the night when everyone is asleep. I have a few theories about where his habits come from, but who am I to criticise the way someone else raises their dog/s.

Thanks. There seems to be a very active and lively debate about the merits of each 'type' Interestingly, there is a very distinctive diffence betweent the show and working Maremma in Italy. However, I think they have done it intelligently. My comments about the breed being split was based on the observation that several other breeds do infact have separate classifications. In particular, I was thinking of the Belgian Shepherds; Groenendael, Laekenois, Malanios and Tervueren. The recent inclusion of Swiss White Shepherd Dog being a case in point. You may end up with four branches of dog. Wooo Hooo

So what's your secret? My big boof will tackle an 18kg bag of kibble. :D

You're probably missing something. Many breeders make statements that their stock are not fit for guarding because they use it as a deterrent so they don't see their pups used as guard dogs at service stations and other areas where the true interests of the dogs are not served. Those breeders should be applauded for caring, not criticised for making the statement. I don't think you can have it both ways. Aren't the 'property guardians' visited daily, fed, watered and generally cared for out of service? Don't they work at night and after-hours? They are not specifically livestock guardians, meaning they don't require the constant companionship of another animal's heartbeat. They are suited to property protection for that reason. I am sure some service station dogs are exceedingly well cared for. It is up to the breeder to place the dog with a suitable home, but they cannot dictate what the dog will be used for. IMO

Just because she is not in the show ring doesn't automatically make her a bad dog :) There are still plenty of old style and working line shepherds out there, just look at the police force and the RAAF. I know of many old style's who are still proper herding dogs and work on their owners farms :) My girl came from such parents. Can't wait to start agility training with her :) I haven't been to a show in while as they upset me too much. I guess you have to remember that this is a forum for show people and show breeders and as such this is the type of shepherd that is supported here. Until what is awarded in the show ring changes the dogs that are sold via the clubs will remain the same. You have to watch yourself or you get into trouble with admin lol Just love your girl and remember that there will always be other dogs out there like her regardless of what wins in the ring :) Interesting. You could be heading for a separate breed classification. It will be interesting to watch, although personally I'd like to see the fallen backs eradicated. I couldn't imagine what other breeds would look like under the same conditions. IMPO.

I don't think we are talking about those people who can read. :D

You cannot force people to be educated. No legislation about licensing people to own dogs will work. No amount of education will help stupid people. So what do we do? This is why I'd like a licence system and yard check. If people had to do something and pay a fee before getting a dog it would at least reduce impulse buys. No, it wouldn't. Having laws about not using mobile phones in cars does nothing to prevent people using mobile phones while driving. How would you police such a thing? You can't. How often does a ranger turn up at your door to see if your dogs are registered? They don't. And if a ranger turned up to a house where an unregistered dog is, 'Oh, the dog's just visiting. No, I can't give you the owner's name for privacy reasons. Gr8thxbai.' Even if such a thing were policeable, all you'd be doing is creating a black market. Well some very clear thinking here. Before I say we're going around in circles maybe we should consider this. It is not possible to create a 'dog utopia' for the same reasons it is not possible to create any other kind of utopia. The fact is others will always have to suffer at the hands of less moral, ethical or incorruptible people, including those with dogs. As Dylan said:

Crass? I think you're confusing QI with Family Guy. What!!! I'm not home.

Stephen Fry amd Dogs. Not a big fan of Stephen sorry! And QI?? The show has a reasonable format but the delivery is crass. And I doubt they could lower the tone of the show even if Jimmy Savile was still alive to make a guest appearance.

Why? Dog ownership is a privilege not a right. People have demonstrated time and again that they can't exercise responsibility for the dogs they own. So if you have to demonstrate some knowledge and your licence is conditional on you exercising responsibility for your dog, what's the issue? We already restrict the dogs people can own anyway. Why? Because I for one have fulfilled the criteria many times over. In fact, I would make the assertion that my dogs have been raised above and beyond expectation. All of this I have done voluntarily. I don't need, and certainly don't want, some kind of nonce regulations that will infringe on my civil liberties just because there is a sub-population of nonces who are clueless about many aspects of life, not the least being all things dog.

I think your argument has merit. Many parents just simply wouldn't buy a dog that would put their young children at risk. That doesn't mean temperament at all but weight and size differentials. The criteria could be part of registration requirements: puppy school, obedience, temperament testing, etc. However, I think equating dogs to something like 'motorbikes' and restricting learners to 250cc type dogs is certain to be problematic. Civil liberties would be my first concern.

The discussion has begun to digress towards 'trained attack and protection dogs.' I saw the damage inflicted by a police dog on one of the Muslim protestors recently. Quite frankly, I don't know why they aren't used more frequently. But, in terms of a discussion on a purebred website, I don't want to have to visit the issue. Maybe start a new thread in the training forum.

You should be able to tell what is sensible criticism about a breeder's dogs and what is just simply the person being a bitch. It is also beneficial, if you are looking at getting a dog, to source a breeder who you can establish a good relationship with, so that you and your dog can have continued support and communication. I am not sure whether I would be taking a dog from one of those secretaries. They should know better, anyway.

Sorry, couldn't resist this link I'm not taking sides. What is clear to me is: It could be my dog, it could be your dog, it could be someone's dog who you know. It is totally and absolutely avoidable but it takes time, effort and possibly expense. With dogs; you have to be in it for the long haul, and you have to get stuck in. Too hard?? Then they shouldn't get a dog.

Tuppence worth! I don't think the tragedy is semantics. It is the failure to protect the dogs from being themselves that is awfully remiss. Maybe the dogs needed a higher fence, an isolated containment area, better handling and management, honesty in registering their true breed with council, who knows! Clearly, they didn't get it, they've impacted on others, and now they have paid with their lives. It certainly sounds like another case of the wrong person, getting the wrong dogs, for all the wrong reasons.

I don't use the words 'vicious' and dog in the same sentence unless absolutely justified. And even then, I use the term guardedly. The electricity company won't read my meters because they say there are vicious dogs. They always get sternly corrected. Monster fits in this instance in the sense of a number of definitions but mostly because the dogs have frightened people, have behaved wickedly and shown extreme cruelty. I don't think 'bad dog' has the same chutzpa.

I don't think dogs can be over-managed. They are smart and they will thank you for it.

That is craziness! What a huge gap. I would want somebody walking behind me with a camera, if I were walking my dogs in NSW. Well, I should qualify that with the criteria in Victoris being not just surgery but an injury that requires cosmetic surgery or death. It is a reasonable criteria in Victoria. Surely you don't think a dog that lunges, in bluff, at another dog or person should be declared dangerous. Or a dog that barks at a child once its been told to stop patting a dog because the parents tell the child its OK despite your stern warning that the dog has a threshold of tolerance. All that happens is time and money is lost by having the dog temperament tested, or contesting the 'notificataion' in court and lodging a formal complaint against the Ranger and the Council because despite them having intimate association with the dog they are indescribably incompetent. It is not making the declaration harder. It is simply factoring in 'people stupid' into the equation. Your last comment about legislation contradicts your support for minimal criteria in declaring a dog dangerous.

I saw a parvo survivor at Narrrabri It was literally half the dog it used to be. Shocking Absolutely shocking disease.

With the whole ear being bitten of, I would class this as a savage mauling... not sure what your point is here? A very salient point chris the Rebel Wolf. The criteria for qualification as a dangerous dog in Victoria is a victim sustaining injuries that require surgery or death. In NSW a dog can be declared dangerous just for stomping in front of anothr dog, muzzle punching an overzealous admirer, or nipping some idiot who wants to run around and not share the footpath while a dog is out walking. A more discerning mind set needs to prevail in NSW.

Welcome back GT

East Hills is a very attractive area. Ian Thorpe went to school at East Hills Boys High School and East Hills Girls High School is a Selective High School. I worked there for a number of years and thoroughly enjoyed it. It is an Anglosaxon enclave that is trapped in a time warp. It is a very charming suburb. What these kinds of incidents do is put dog attacks into context. We should be able to disinguish between a nip, a bite and a savage mauling. It speaks volumes to the issue of breed temperament-up and against-temperament overall.

I had a visitor stay over-night for a couple of days. As the guy was not really well known, I decided to sleep with the door open and a Maremma on the bed. The vistior got up during the night to use the bathroom but had to pass by my bedroom door. Needless to say I had to jump out of bed to allow him to get to the bathroom. Once, while on a regular afternoon walk with two dogs, we ran into the guy across the road who always used to allow his dog to run out into the street without a lead. That, of course used to make the dogs bark and the neighbours would complain. So I approached him about his dog being off lead and he began to get hostile. When he raised his voice and stepped into my personal space, I suddenly had my big dog standing on two legs beside me. He had the neighbour eye to eye and was barking frantically. It surprised me as much as it scared the daylights out of the neighbour. Now I manage my dogs accordingly.

Halleluiah! Finally, someone gets the point behind the story. It is such a simple concept but obviously too hard to grasp for many people.

Hmmmppff. This must be Queenslands best kept secret. Not anymore! Spring Creek