Merci

I have been following this case also (reading this thread at work wasn't a good idea cos crying at work is embarrassing!). Anyone who has had a cat that has had serious trauma will know, you just can't tell how bad it is. My cat had a shattered hip joint for 2 months before the vet finally did an x-ray. I don't blame my vet for this (well not totally). Other than being a bit touchy around the rear end and limping you would never have known his hip was shattered. Its a cat's way to hide their pain. I would suspect this may have been the way with Cookie. K9angel and the vets did the best they could but animals aren't human and can't tell you exactly what's wrong.

Geh. I dont know how to quote. The vet called because he is our uncle and asked my brother if he wanted him to call for him. By alot he was offered a pick from 2-3 litters when he went to pick it up but there was other puppies that were not ready to go. In regards to all the other awesome information that you guys have provided I am sorry I do not know the specifics. Its a small vet practice and don't have any specialities that I am aware of. I have direct my brother to this thread so he can see what he needs to know. We understand that there is no guarantees in life, we understand that things happen and sometimes there is just bad luck. The thing I was most appalled about was the disregard of the breeder. Maybe he should have taken better care when checking the pup's parent's credentials. Thanks for all your help

I agree that I do not know what the vet said to the breeder and I only assumed that he would have done so report/get all the information. If my brother did call the breeder directly to talk to them what would he expect the breeder to do? I had assumed that they would take note of the situation and maybe offer a partial refund. I just thought that by telling the breeder they would want to know for future breeding purposes not because there is anything that can actually be done at this stage. Thanks for the responses btw. I kinda just blurted things out :)

My brother has a German Shepard pup that is shy of 12 months old. Our family has had a few german Shepards over the years and are aware of the problems so he went to a breeder and made sure he got a pup with papers so that there was a better chance of ethical breeding. My brother followed the breeder's advice with food, exercise and so forth. In addition, because he was aware of the hip displacia problem he always made sure that the dog was lifted into and from the truck and generally not allowed to jump. At about 6 months the pup had issues with growing and its front elbow join's cartilage started to split which the vet treated it for. Now, at 10-11 months the poor dog is going in to get surgery on each hip to correct the quite bad displacia. I said to my brother, you should call the breeder to let them know. He said the vet had already called and the breeder's response is that their dogs do not get hip displacia and therefore it must have been environmental. I would think that this was a bit of a fib since hip displacia is prevalent in German Shepards and when my brother was there he said that there was several litters and alot of dogs at this kennel. I cannot believe that not a single one of these dogs had hip displacia (but I could be wrong, I am not a breeder or even an owner anymore). SO, my questions are: Do you think this is a suitable response to someone telling you that there was something wrong with a pup you had bred? What is environmental hip displacia and could it have been 'environmental'? (I would like to note that my brother's house is fully carpeted and has about 6 stairs internally but since the front leg issue they have tried to limit the stair action) Is there anything further that should be done re the breeder? I am really upset that the poor puppy is going through so much pain and the breeder doesn't even care that they are spinning out dogs like this or at least not warning against 'environmental' hip displacia

I guess it comes down to preferences. Just like some people love dogs but not cats. I am at that age where my friends are moving from having pets to having children and I am CERTAINLY not predicting any children in my near future. If you ask me to hold your baby you are likely to get a blank stare from me unless its an emergency (the one time I have held a baby it WAS an emergency infact) but ask if I want hold your puppy or kitten HELL YEAH. Probably for the same reason why people would want to hold a human baby but not a baby lizard. On as side note from the early posts, people said they dont like naughty kids, but I cannot stand untrained dogs and people who treat their pets as people. They are not people and if you let your dog sit on the couch and ask me to pull up a floor board you will have lost my respect. Children can be naughty just because its part of being a kid but Dogs are naughty purely because that's the way their owner lets them behave GRRR

Hey guys, I wasn't saying that just any dog can be taken from a pound and placed willy-nilly. I recognise that alot of work needs to go into finding them the right home. My point was, if the animal is rescued and put into the right home, what does it matter how it got there? Just because it isn't the way Rescue Group A would do it doesn't mean Rescue Group B's method doesn't work too. Also, in relation to the attacking comment, clearly the author of the page felt attacked, or was at least making it seem like she was, through the couple of comments I read on the fb page. Whatever the case may be, I don't agree with the page and don't want to give it more attention than its due. Hopefully the old 'ignore and it will go away' method will work.

Hey Haven, maybe it would be a good idea to contact the person posting it directly and just politely suggest that the breeder or a specialised rescue would take them. Thats generally what I do. I also put in a bit about un-desexed dogs and puppy mills for good measure.

I don't really understand why SO anti-fb when it really is just a big message board/forum with slightly better options. The stuff that goes down on forums is just as bad and inaccurate as what happens on fb. FB is just an excellent communication device and a wise business would use it. Back on track, I don't think she should have put up such a negative page. Yes there is alot of infighting with rescues, but airing it in a public forum and turning people off rescue by finger pointing isn't the way to go. The animals are what is important here. An animal saved is still an animal saved (and yes I do recognise that some are better than others and someone looking to adopt should make an informed choice). The attacks that people from rescues have undertaken on this person who started the page are pretty bad in themselves imo. They are just making the situation worse by inflaming it and dividing rescue groups further. TBH I dont think the average Joe would actually look at that page. I know when I first wanted to adopt I simply googled rescue and my area and one popped up. I just tried again with one of the attacked organisations and it still didnt get a hit.

I have to agree with dancinbcs. They pretty much cover the main reason why this breed has greater health issues. This and other small dog breeds we initially been bred for their looks not health/physical ability which is what working dogs were initially breed for. My question and interest is then, why are frenchies that much more expensive than pugs, (assuming that it is based on their health requirements)? I assume given that both are brachies, have curlie tails, big heads,and have similar litter problems that they would be similarly priced.

TBH I didnt see anything wrong with the questions you asked and I would probably ask similar questions (though maybe not in that fashion as some people have indicated). it kinda makes me feel like there is something to hide. I dont see anything wrong with trying to make sure the puppy is the right puppy for you and I would hope that the breeder would want to find the best home for their puppy. I am a little confused as to why it would be bad form to ask if the parents or puppy had been shown or whatever if you were interested in getting a show dog. Yes it might have seemed full on in the way it was set out and questions asked and might have helped with finness/research but I would have thought they would haev been thrilled that someone would have put so mch effort and thought into their potential puppy! I certainly wouldnt want to get attached to the puppy then realise it didnt tick the boxes in some significant way! P/N: this is a lay person's pov ;)

I just did a quick google and I have no idea where he got those bite stats from. They do not reflect ANY for the bite stats I saw. I would have expected the percentages to be greater (which is what my googling skills discovered)

The pictures I was referring to of the runs had concrete in the kennel but the outside part looked like dirt. Toy*dog, I am pretty sure that Julia will find out one way or another. It is getting spammed around fb and there are some very strong opinions going on. I still cant believe that someone would pay that much for that puppy. but I guess if you didn't know better...

So you guys seen this yet then? http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/a-little-monkey-business-at-the-lodge/story-fn7x8me2-1226148467277 I am very disappointed and upset by this. Obviously not even from someone actively trying to breed them as it is a first cross. And from the look of their website the dogs are kept outside on dirt in runs their whole life

Hey guys, saw this today and I think it suitably outlines the issue. http://www.3news.co.nz/Making-oodles---inside-NZs-puppy-farms/tabid/371/articleID/162135/Default.aspx Nobody is disputing the fact that the DDs can be cute lovable dogs, its the motive of the person who bred them and the questionable heritage behind dogs. TBH I dont think this issue is restricted to DDs, it just happens that DDs are all the rage at the moment. Thats where the money is at and therefore thats where the souless people looking to make a quick buck have gone.

Thanks everyone for your input. We are still a couple of months off getting one i think (we havent even finished buying the house yet) but I asked the BF about getting an older dog and he was ok with that. Thanks for letting me know about those in Vic Jane, but that really is too far for us. Eeep getting excited now. lol and its still a while away.