Jumblyjunior

Thank you for all your empathic responses we have kept puppy and have moved on.

Thanks for that,have been doing lots of reading which does support waiting till maturity before desexing but weight is a compounding factor not controlled for in most of these studies. She is a very lean pup at times we have thought a bit too lean but vet has confirmed she is a very good weight and we are tracking her weight and there are no sudden leaps. As someone said before 9/10 is not a disaster and not that much different to 7/7 but it is the fact the we were not given a chance to make this decision ourselves and purchase our puppy we know two parents 0/0 could have puppies with bad hips or a whole host of other issues. As it stands we are planning to speak to breeder this weekend and tell her we want to proceed with penn hip xrays next week if all good we keep puppy (splitting cost of penn hip?) if not good we will have paid for penn hip and she refund us costs of puppy and costs to date (not the penn hip xray) Ifshe does not want us to proceed with penn hip then she takes puppy and refunds us costs of puppy and costs to date. It is very hard for us to make these decisions but we are not going to put ourselves at what isincreased risk through someone elses deception. If anyone thinks it is not increased risk why are hip scores taken before breeding and presented to potential owners.

Thanks guys for all your advice everyone is basically saying things that have been running through our heads. We are not going to desex her just to save on an anaesthetic. We are going to get advice on her hips now and continue as we are with looking after her (to reduce her risk) - once we have seen the vet we are going to speak to the breeder and discuss what happened. We also think the AKC should be aware of such happenings. Our thoughts are for her (breeder) to pay for her penn hip xrays so we can assess the risk and if she chooses not to we will decide if we return her or peservere - she is our dog and we want her to be well and happy. We did not want to speak to breeder straight away because we were upset and wanted to think what was good for us first before getting into any discussions. We had top level pet insurance in place the day we got her (our old lab was an expensive baby to have ) Will keep you updated on events as they unfold - thanks all. Will be in on DOL meets def - she loves other dogs.

We really hope its not and are getting an opinion on Saturday - we already do love her. Good luck with you puppy - labs are the best - actually most dogs are

We really hope its not and are getting an opinion on Saturday - we already do love her. Good luck with you puppy - labs are the best - actually most dogs are

I suppose i think it was a little naive to buy a pup from a breeder that was awaiting PRA results for the parents (and really unethical and stupid of the breeder!) and with a hip score of 7/7 (well its really 9/10) which is around the breed average, so not a dog that really should be bred from (they really should be well under the breed average). But yeah, i recognise it is unhelpful to dwell on the past....and i prob sounded like a b*tch, i apologise. i understand how stressful these things can be- my own dog is an allergy dog. I'm sorry if i sounded mean. But it sounds like you really love your pup and you've made heaps of progress with her training and socialisation . It would be a shame to give all that up for something that may or may not be a problem. My dog is from guide dog lines (very strict with their health testing) and has allergies Her parents haven't had allergy problems, yet several of her litter has been affected. They also never breed from dogs with greater than 0/0 elbows, yet i know of several dogs that have had elbow dysplasia and subsequently been rejected. So there is no guarantee with these multifactorial diseases.... sometimes it is just really good luck or bad luck that a dog gets affected Edited to say greater than 0/0- you cant get less!!! Thanks for the reply - I just bridled at the thought anyone thinks we want to dump this pup at a hurdle - its not that as i have said it is the dishonest way we have been dealt with - anything can happen with a pup with all the cards in your favour and we are fully aware of that - but if someone is being dishonest first I dont want to be a victim of their c##p and I don't want any future buyers to be. Our dilemma is the future of this puppy and our family. Whatever the outcome with this puppy we will be taking it up with the AKC re her breeding practices.

Some say 12 some say 14 some say 16. Most australian sites seem to say 14.

Thanks for kind words and defence - reaches for the mylanta....

I think saying we did not check the hip scores first or worry about PRA is unfair - as we did both of these things - only thing is we were told the wrong info (in writing) our only naivety was to not get the actual certificate and confirm the breeder was being honest and as i have said earlier that we were aware that perfect parents hips does not mean perfect puppy. Do you think it is unfair that a breeder mislead a buyer? Also we never were told desexing would help HD - we were advised to do at 4 months but will now investigate if delaying it will improve her chances against HD.

By her DOB and her xray date she would have been about 15 months old. I don't know is she was in heat or pregnant or raising pups. I would hope she was scored before she was bred but I have my doubts and the score did not stop her being bred.

Yes she did not have PRA results for the parents before breeding them - and it was not their first litter - this was a concern that is why we had the proviso in writing of giving the puppy back if both parents were carriers or worse. We now have certificates that both parents are clear. Apparently we were the only people out of the other 8 getting a puppy that wanted this, which worried us back thne for the new owners and about the breeder but felt if it was being done we would know. So we were waiting on tenterhooks on that one which she delayed getting to us and then we get this yucky surprise hip certificate that we have been misled on. I agree with both replies before - we should give her back because we would not have taken her in the first place but also if mum was 0/0 we could still have a puppy with problems - but we have always been aware it is not purely genetic a better score just improves the odds for the puppy how the puppy is nurtured has a massive effect. Your opinions really help my hubby and I are trying to the right thing by our family and this puppy - the sad thing is I know if she has a problem we will be the best family to look after her but at what cost emotionally and financially. Thanks for listening and posting so far guys ...she is so lovely..... - the vet we are seeing on sat is an orthopaedist who offered pen hip xrays at her desexing in 3 weeks - but obviously we will not proceed with any desexing if she is going back. PRA won't be an issue then so thats ok. However, can i ask why you are looking to desex at 17/18 weeks? Because that's what the vet said so they could look at her hips and see whether we want to consider the ongoing controversial JPS procedure (which we have not decided on - mainly because of this forum) but our vet who looked after our old lab knows what we went through and says this may be an option to reduce the risk and would discuss it when she has been xrayed and examined - this was way before any of this came to light. I hadn't heard that desexing would reduce the risk of HD, but I'm sure others more knowledgable in Labs would have some idea. In our breed most breeders I know would usually recommend desexing much later (around 12 months) as hormonal maturity helps with the development of bone and muscle structure - important esp if you are going to have an animal with a very active lifestyle. Maybe its different with Labs though? No I don't think they suggested it early for any benefit but suggested this was a good time?? they brought it up not us and again at puppy school they said 20 weeks or before is this purely for reasons of doing a jps?? i don' tknow - our old boy was desexed at 8 months. Will have to ask vet on saturday. Thanks

Yes she did not have PRA results for the parents before breeding them - and it was not their first litter - this was a concern that is why we had the proviso in writing of giving the puppy back if both parents were carriers or worse. We now have certificates that both parents are clear. Apparently we were the only people out of the other 8 getting a puppy that wanted this, which worried us back thne for the new owners and about the breeder but felt if it was being done we would know. So we were waiting on tenterhooks on that one which she delayed getting to us and then we get this yucky surprise hip certificate that we have been misled on. I agree with both replies before - we should give her back because we would not have taken her in the first place but also if mum was 0/0 we could still have a puppy with problems - but we have always been aware it is not purely genetic a better score just improves the odds for the puppy how the puppy is nurtured has a massive effect. Your opinions really help my hubby and I are trying to the right thing by our family and this puppy - the sad thing is I know if she has a problem we will be the best family to look after her but at what cost emotionally and financially. Thanks for listening and posting so far guys ...she is so lovely..... - the vet we are seeing on sat is an orthopaedist who offered pen hip xrays at her desexing in 3 weeks - but obviously we will not proceed with any desexing if she is going back. PRA won't be an issue then so thats ok. However, can i ask why you are looking to desex at 17/18 weeks? Because that's what the vet said so they could look at her hips and see whether we want to consider the ongoing controversial JPS procedure (which we have not decided on - mainly because of this forum) but our vet who looked after our old lab knows what we went through and says this may be an option to reduce the risk and would discuss it when she has been xrayed and examined - this was way before any of this came to light.

Yes she did not have PRA results for the parents before breeding them - and it was not their first litter - this was a concern that is why we had the proviso in writing of giving the puppy back if both parents were carriers or worse. We now have certificates that both parents are clear. Apparently we were the only people out of the other 8 getting a puppy that wanted this, which worried us back thne for the new owners and about the breeder but felt if it was being done we would know. So we were waiting on tenterhooks on that one which she delayed getting to us and then we get this yucky surprise hip certificate that we have been misled on. I agree with both replies before - we should give her back because we would not have taken her in the first place but also if mum was 0/0 we could still have a puppy with problems - but we have always been aware it is not purely genetic a better score just improves the odds for the puppy how the puppy is nurtured has a massive effect. Your opinions really help my hubby and I are trying to the right thing by our family and this puppy - the sad thing is I know if she has a problem we will be the best family to look after her but at what cost emotionally and financially. Thanks for listening and posting so far guys ...she is so lovely..... - the vet we are seeing on sat is an orthopaedist who offered pen hip xrays at her desexing in 3 weeks - but obviously we will not proceed with any desexing if she is going back.

I hear you.... Our silly neighbour leaves her jack russell off lead all the time and he chases people up and down the street and cars - we have told her someone is going to have an accident and she just says "he's friendly" we have demanded now he stay off our property - which she is doing but still he runs up and down the street - we want to complain to council but she will know it is us and we would not put it past her to do something horrific to our lab puppy - she is a stupid owner and a witch to boot. On another note until I was an adult I was terrified of dogs - and people do not realised the effect of fear when an off lead dog approaches you can have - you feel like you are going to have a heart attack - and they usually say " hes okay he won't hurt you" all the while you are almost wetting your pants...

Hi Everyone, My husband and I have been reading on this forum for a while now. Here's the story.....sorry for the saga We previously had a male lab who died 3 years ago and was a much adored dog - he died at 11 of cancer but for the last 5-6 years of his life had terrible arthritis of his hips. We had got him from a pet shop not previously ever having a dog and not really being aware of the major issues this could cause. Nevertheless we loved him and wish he was here today. Finally our whole family (extended eg grandparents,uncles) was ready for another dog and this time we did a lot of research and decided on a female lab and waited until one was available in our state. So in Febuary we chose our female yellow lab - she is a delightful sweetie pie - full of beans and has patched a hole in many hearts. We were told by the registered breeder that her mother had 7/7 hips (which we had in writing not from her not the actual certificate - and she had said this was good at the breed standard) and her father had 1/1 hips - we were a bit cautious about the 7/7 but saw the mother who seemed well (about 5 years old) and read about hips and proceeded knowing scores are not a guarantee and there was a lot we would do with this pup being more aware in general. The elbows were 0 all around - and the history of the mum and dad was good (through my research only hole in it is the mums mum). We have had our puppy for 5 weeks now and she is great - doing her puppy training and learning a lot of things and slept through the night this week. We are crate training her - and are very happy with this again after much research and what we feel will be great benefit to a breed such as a lab. But we were still waiting on the copies of her parents scores and the pra certificates which the breeder had kept saying she would send - PRA was only just done on the parents and the agreement we had with her if there was a chance our dog could be affected ie both parents carriers she would take puppy back - there was a delay with this test and so there was also a delay in getting hold of the hip/elbow scores. I was getting a bit paranoid that she was not going to send the eye results or they were bad and we were going to have to send her back. So two nights ago I got the email - Dad correct 1/1 mum 9/10 - with 4 right subluxation. We would not have taken/considered one of these puppies with this score - now we are in a quandry - we have a young family who wants an active happy dog - we know there is no guarantee but I feel sad and betrayed. If down the track at 7/7 we found out our dog had a hip problem we would have rolled with it and done everything we can but now I feel we if something happens its because we were tricked - what a different 2/3 makes.. We are taking her to the vet on saturday to have him just look at her and see what he thinks but she is only 13 weeks old - she does have a bit of a funny gait but nearly all labs I see have this , she does seem to move both legs together when scooting around but again lots of dogs I have seen do this and she loves to lie like a frog which our old dog never did - but on the otherhand she is active, jumps around (we discourage this) and is certainly not overweight and is only walked for less than 10 minutes every few days. I think we have every right to give our puppy back and I think that everyone who got a puppy from this litter should be aware of the actual facts and decide on this. We don't really know what to do we have not talked to breeder yet. But just to confuse my mind even more I thought I would ask on this forum where there are so many people who love their dogs too. Thanks for listening....