john.davey.1960

Spot on

I well remember this case and can't believe it is still going on. In my considered opinion the issue was lack of adult supervision of the poor girl. The dogs did not attack her from memory but but played roughly with her. Hopefully all the facts will come out this time. The judge I believe should recuse himself for what I can only describe as ignorant comments.

Sounds like the Nuremburg Defence to me. Desensitisation to animal suffering goes a long way to explaining the attitude of vets who would rather see a dog dead than bred.

All dogs used in scientific studies are killed, that's the law. Testing in animals is for insurance purposes, nothing else. Stitching kittens eyes shut has not led to any ocular cures. Thalidomide was tested in animals and if penicillin had been tested in guinea pigs it never would have made it out of the lab. Drugs have different effects in animals, are excreted differenly and metabolised differently. As for eating animals, yes I do care how they are treated before being killed and we should work to ensure they don't suffer beforehand. We are carnivores in the end.

Interesting paper. I'll take issue with one key assertion. The ACT is NOT a no kill territory. The RSPCA may have a low kill rate but it does not take on all dogs surrendered, nor does it deal with dogs impounded as roaming or for behavioural reasons. Those go to DAS and they do get PTS. I'll agree with the point that hundreds of thousands of Australian homes take on new pets every year. However I don't agree that all of them are suitable homes for rescue dogs and nor will I agree that most rescue dogs are suitable for any home. Perhaps if more work was put into a dog before it was rehomed many problems could be averted but not all (such as resource guarding) are curable. As a dog trainer I see the heartbreak that impulsive decisionss made by novice dogs owners at pounds can lead to. The fact that these owners are motivated by thoughts of saving a dog just makes their problems even sadder. Dogs don't come in a generic "one size fits all" package. Young working breed dogs are a case in point. The kinds of homes that suit them are limited. Whilst I agree that more effort needs to go into making rescue dogs both available and suitable for rehoming, I'd love to see puppy breeding and placement made better for buyers. No point in madly bailing out the rescue pond if you can't stop the influx of dogs chosen impulsively, not socialised, not trained and past the point where you can "make them over". Getting pups out of pet shops would be a good start. In the meantime and back on subject. The floodgates of rescue dogs unable to be rehomed will not close overnight. While dogs continue to die, personally I think they should be viewed as more than landfill. They are a resource that used ethically can provide valuable learning experiences for student vets. We all need to think carefully about companion animals. They are made, not produced. Michael Vick's dogs are slowly being retrained from the fighting pits and are now pets and service dogs. Some may never be rehomed as the barbarity towards them was so bad they can never be trusted around other animals. Humans yes, animals no. Until Vick all such dogs were simply killed. using them for ethical reasons is not an option, it is barbarity just the same.

Please cough up the research that supports your claim of 500,000 homes looking for pets - God knows there's plenty of rescuers who'd be pleased to find them. What animal welfare organisation are you involved with? http://www.operationtoby.com.au/NO-KILL_australiapaper.pdf

Much of the "lets chop 'em up 'coz thy're gonna die anyway" brigade rely on the falsehood that the dogs can't be rehomed. This falsehood has been eliminated by the No Kill Movement in Australia showing there's at least a half million shortage of pets. they die to pay salaries INMHO, pur and simple. If you want to be an animal welfare organisation then be one, otherwise go and mow the grass.

Godwin's Law does not apply as it is merely a statement of Usenet Group dynamics, irrespective of the validity of the comparisons being made. Many people who don't understand it's meaning confuse it with a corollary to the law mentioned mainly by people ignorant of the topic in the first place and so quote it to to try and shut down discussion they can not cogently argue against. Many arguements use similes and metaphors to pronounce a point, especially a heinous one such as this. If the shoe fits!

I'm not going to dignify this sort of hyperbole with a response. Shooting the messenger rather than addressing the issue, typical of those insensitive to companion animal welfare. Working with a responsible surgeon capable of lots of procedures will do more for vets than one look and kill session at uni. Computer programmes exist to overcome these distasteful situations. Study them and learn. The Dr Mengele excuse that they were going to die anyway just doesn't cut it anymore. How we treat companion animals is a foretaste of how we treat each other. Is that another refugee camp we are building?

In my considered opinion this story is totally barbaric and proves how valueless Animal Ethics Committees are. Any practice should be done on dogs in veterinary surgeries with an extra year added to the course for supervisory training. Is it any wonder vets are eager to accept obscene animal management practices when they are desensitised to the suffering of animals while training.

I must be blind but no-where in the bylaws could I see anything relating to two dogs per household! Is there a Local Government Ombudsman?

Not advice but what I would do in a similar situation. 1. There are owned dogs and pet dogs. Dogs spending all their time outside are simply owned and missout on interactions with the family and become overly attached to the person who feeds them. 2. The dog should spend increasing times inside and be fed tasty morssels when introduced to new people/situations. 3. Remain calm as dogs will inerpret this as fear-based. 4. Do NOT allow children unsupervised access to the dog. In essence the dog must learn it is not #1. If no improvement a vet check is required and professional help sought. All the best.

It's my understanding each State has different qualifications so a BA is not transferrable. Would love to hear fom someone who has had practical experience with this process though.

And what was the "breed" AST, SBT or APBT? Or was it just a short-haired muscular mongrel?

Animal hoarding is a psychiatric condition requiring psychiatric care. Unfortunately it is being used by those opposed to pet ownership to eliminate companion animals through animal limits and breeding restrictions. This "study" appears superficial to me as reported and only helps their case.

I wonder what excuse they used to eliminate the Tasmanian Tiger? That's right it was a feral pest damaging farmer's crops. And SA shot all it's Koalas 'coz they loved them so much everyone wanted a Koala fur something or other. I wont even mention Dingos or Roos. Anyone seeing a dog rip the lower jaw off a pig and still think it's not cruel is in need of serious psychological help IMHO! The words feral and pest are simply used to justify abhorrent behaviour. It's practitioners should be seen in the same light as dogfighters. Perhaps when we learn to care more for our wildlife we may begin to care more for each other.

Setting dogs on pigs is to be legal but setting dogs on dogs is illegal because of cruelty? Despites all the barbarity of pig hunting pigs are still around. Learn to live with them. If you believe them psychologists tell us those involved in such barbarity are tomorrows serial killers and spousal abusers.

I find CM brilliant. He has to solve problems stat, not keep coming back and forth. If it saves the dog's life, good on him.

Oscar Wilde said it all: "The Unspeakable In Pursuit Of The Uneatable".

I am not an animal activist and I am against the sale of animals in pet shops. Step 2 is classifying rescuers as hoarders. Does anyone really believe we are immune from the US PETA types?

Action against Pet Shops is simply a front by animal activists to end pet ownership starting with the the easiest target, like BSL. Banning doesn't work, better to regulate and ensure safe practices.

Criminological studies indicate otherwise. Link to studies here These are not studies, much more akin to gossip and second hand reports. What exactly is animal cruelty? Killing healthy adoptable pets (like the proponents of bsl advocate)? The greatest mass murderer in history was a vegetarian and loved animals, kinda like a PETA clone! Punish the perpetrators for what they do, not what they may do. You're saying that surveying violent criminals/crime for evidence of earlier animal cruelty is "gossip" Ok. What evidence would satisfy you? Lets leave Hitler out of it..and lets not forget he tested his preferred poison on his German Shepherd before taking it himself. Yep, anything to break the monotony of prison life is good as far as their concerned. He killed his dog to prevent him falling into Russian hands, something many Germans did. Gossip is gossip. Facts are facts. When people deal in the latter they can be taken seriously.

Criminological studies indicate otherwise. Link to studies here These are not studies, much more akin to gossip and second hand reports. What exactly is animal cruelty? Killing healthy adoptable pets (like the proponents of bsl advocate)? The greatest mass murderer in history was a vegetarian and loved animals, kinda like a PETA clone! Punish the perpetrators for what they do, not what they may do.

To many it seems ignorance is it's own reward. Still no evidence on which registry registers a breed called a pit bull. Ontario and Denver ban all pitbulls (AST, SBT & APBT) while plenty of US cities have repealed BSL as have the Netherlands and Italy and while there is far to go it makes a good start. Australia is 5 years behind the US so give it time and we will also go down that path eventually. Tossing out the companion animal haters in Vic and NSW was a good start. Unwilling to do one's research is itself a good indicator of lack of "kit" in many people's book.

Shooting the messanger: a clear sign of lack of knowledge of the issues. Please name credible registries which recognise a breed called a Pit Bull Your rationale may work if you are BSing to the uninitiated rather than raving on a dog specific forum. Show me a registry that lists, as pure breeds, such breeds as Rotties Dobes Newfies Iggies Bullies Staffies Chi's Am Staffs Foxies Goldens Labs etc etc etc ad infinitum & Pitbulls even (UKC-ADBA claim they are credible) Show me any self declared ''dog person'' who doesn't know which breed is being referred to & have an instant image come to mind & i'll show someone seriously out of their depth. An imposter even. Going the elephant wearing sun glasses route doesn't work, wont work, wont ever work. Denial is Bart Simpsonism. ''I didn't do it". ''It wasn't me''. Credibility zero. Funny on Foxtel. Pathectic in real life Education is the way. If you have to balls to stand up & be counted that is. Don't expect others to do it for you. ''You'' have to do it. Which looks to be highly unlikely. But until someone with the gonads does, BSL is here to stay. A Pit Bull is a type of dog such as a Hound is a type of dog or terrier, not a breed- never has been, never will be. It refers to short-haired muscular breeds such as AST, APBT and SBT which are all the same breed with different names with different registries. Rottie is short for Rottweiler as for all the all the others named they are simply short for extended names. No registry registers a Pit Bull, and as I've dealt with ADBA, GDR and UKC I can speak with some authority. Ignorance is found amongst those who claim to be experts . BSL is slowly being overturned in the US and Europe because it is difficult to enforce and results in tens of thousands of dead dogs which have done nothing wrong and results in an increase in dog attacks, especially with kids. When those with the b*lls to step up to the plate and not hide behind anonymous handles do so, we can't lose.