JoeK

People thinking a lot to get a female dog is same as cute little girl and she grow up with gentle nature like a nice lady because she female, is not the same with the dog like with the people, vey different. Mostly gentle nature cute and cuddly in the dog comes from male dog surprise, yes?, and people dont thinking this is happening. The two female if they dogs who hate each other cause the worstest fights always and they dont forgive, that part is like some lady like my wife sometimes, she complain on something happen 10 year ago, excuse the lady here, I having a joke only, but the female dog hold more a grudge against another dog, where the male dog tends to accept defeat and get on with his life more easily I have found in the Shepherd dog is the case. Much easier to run male dogs togther than the females any day. Submissive female is good, but a strong bitch if she gets bad day will fight a male no worries especially in the seasonal around there needing to be careful. I don't have much experience running the desexed females, maybe it is better, but when before I worked the kennels with complete dogs, the bitch fights were very bad compared with males having a scruff. The females also tending once they have a fight, they hate the other dog more for ever in the grudge where the male dogs is happens too sometimes, but more often they can accept what happened and moving on their life ok. Joe

Well... What if said dog is quite small? I think it's erroneous to completely disregard relative size. I've met some little dogs that have things well in hand, but I've never met one that can do it with a look. My last dog, Penny, got close, but she knew it wouldn't work on every dog. The dominant little dog I think maybe sometimes get defensive and reactive when their dominance not taken seriously. I remember little dog one time he display the dominance trait and the owner just flick him away with the foot, like easily managed because he small, cant flick away Shepherd dog on the foot, too big yes, and he get very nasty in the same way as big dog, but because he little, he doesnt impact on the mind as dominant trait and people think he just snappy little bugger, but he snappy because he get flicked around and not getting his own way. With the big dog, people more respect because he cause much injury and cant also push him around as easily in the body so the dominance of the dog doesnt grow into reactivity as much as happens in the little dog from more easily handling, but the trait I dont think matter because of size of dog, is the same in all size, except the little dog learn fast what happens if he try to dominate big dominant dog, maybe he try one maybe two times and the one who try three time probably now at the bridge of the rainbow yes! Joe

Yes, maybe little bit, but perhaps some defense more than dominance you seeing? Joe

I think that territory can be a resource, just like the food or the possession. A dog can consider a place (and the things that are within it) as its own territory if it is regularly taken there for activity. With dogs that live together or not, I don't think any incident is just about generally being 'the boss', it's about controlling territory or another specific resource and will also depend on whether the dogs are aroused/excited/motivated enough for a challenge at that moment. Dominant dogs can and do challenge other dogs to retain their dominant position when they feel its worthwhile to do so to control a resource, I wouldn't say they are never reactive. But I wouldn't say that every dog that reacts to another dog is being or attempting to be dominant. You wouldn't be able to gently turn the head and avert the gaze of a dog that was overreacting defensively, but you can do it with a self-assured dog that is calmly and stiffly sizing up a likely competitor who is doing the same thing back. In fact, I don't really like using the word dominant to describe a dog, as I believe that dog heirachy is fluid, and a dog can only be dominant in a particular time and circumstance and in relation to the other dogs it is with. If we are trying to describe an individual dog and its inherent traits there are much better words to use than dominant. Better to use words that describe a dog's actions, rather than just a label like that. Yes, I very much commend this summary of the dominance is very good explanation I thinking also. Many a time people tell me Joe, my dog is very hard and dominant. What I see sometimes is insecure dog working aggressively in the defense drive, or I see territorial dog working in defense drive feeling his territory is under the threat. Sometimes they tell me Joe, this dog is weak and lacking manhood, he just stand there and do nothing?. But, sometimes this dog who stand there and do nothing, is very confident and dominant dog and he do nothing because nobody challenge him and the other dogs submit to his aura, yes? Dominance is very difficult term, and meaning different things for different peoples and groups, but most important for me saying (my opinion) please for nobody thinking automatic that dominant means aggression and reactive is not true. Many true dominant dogs never fighting another dog because the other dogs submitting to the dominance aura he projecting. Is like nobody much will pick a fight with a soldier on guard with machine gun, you not beat him un armed is a given. The submissive dog he think the same with the dominant dog is a given he dont win should he fight him, so the soldier and the dominant dog can stand there and do nothing, yes? Thanks Joe. Yes, definitely. One dog I had, Sam, was very confident, happy, peaceful and could be described as dominant. He was never aggressive, and didn't react much to other dogs apart from standing still and tall, and a quick bum sniff if he could be bothered. He did not even acknowledge toy-sized dogs at all, it was as though they didn't exist. No matter what they did to him. He would react to a bitch in season by drooling copiously all over her. We went to agility class every week. There was a large male rough collie there, of similar temperament to Sam. Both of these dogs were surrounded by dozens of other dogs. Both were happy to be at agility and very well behaved. Then Sam and the Collie started eye balling each other when we were waiting our turn for pieces of equipment. They would stiffen and scratch and stare with a hard eye for a while, then Sam would start to growl very deeply and softly. You could feel it more than hear it. But all I needed to do to stop the stare and the stance was to gently turn Sam's head away and lead him off. But I had to do this every time I caught Sam staring, and so did the collie's owner. This only happened when standing around for ages waiting for equipment, both dogs were fine when off lead and working. So we made sure we kept our dogs right away from each other and the situation couldn't develop. The growl begin very soft like a pussy cat purring I describe when they first start a hairy eyeball then he wind him up the growl if you not stop them. The low and soft growl very common I find in the dominant Shepherd dog often too. Joe

The best searching dogs I have worked with in the rugged outdoor is the German Shepherd having also very good air scenting ability. Sometimes a little bit big a dog for the inside the German Shepherd where other breeds sometimes more usable, no good for drug detection on people because too many people scared of them, no good sniffing people at the airport, Labrador much better choice for me for that work. We use often a smallish German Shepherd bitch of nice nerve and drive when she a bit small for training in protection, she very nice in the searching and the tighter area. I seen many good Spaniel in the drug detection working very nice and a few of the cross breeds, but any dog with good stable nerve and some drive seem to be training well in the work. Joe

I think that territory can be a resource, just like the food or the possession. A dog can consider a place (and the things that are within it) as its own territory if it is regularly taken there for activity. With dogs that live together or not, I don't think any incident is just about generally being 'the boss', it's about controlling territory or another specific resource and will also depend on whether the dogs are aroused/excited/motivated enough for a challenge at that moment. Dominant dogs can and do challenge other dogs to retain their dominant position when they feel its worthwhile to do so to control a resource, I wouldn't say they are never reactive. But I wouldn't say that every dog that reacts to another dog is being or attempting to be dominant. You wouldn't be able to gently turn the head and avert the gaze of a dog that was overreacting defensively, but you can do it with a self-assured dog that is calmly and stiffly sizing up a likely competitor who is doing the same thing back. In fact, I don't really like using the word dominant to describe a dog, as I believe that dog heirachy is fluid, and a dog can only be dominant in a particular time and circumstance and in relation to the other dogs it is with. If we are trying to describe an individual dog and its inherent traits there are much better words to use than dominant. Better to use words that describe a dog's actions, rather than just a label like that. Yes, I very much commend this summary of the dominance is very good explanation I thinking also. Many a time people tell me Joe, my dog is very hard and dominant. What I see sometimes is insecure dog working aggressively in the defense drive, or I see territorial dog working in defense drive feeling his territory is under the threat. Sometimes they tell me Joe, this dog is weak and lacking manhood, he just stand there and do nothing?. But, sometimes this dog who stand there and do nothing, is very confident and dominant dog and he do nothing because nobody challenge him and the other dogs submit to his aura, yes? Dominance is very difficult term, and meaning different things for different peoples and groups, but most important for me saying (my opinion) please for nobody thinking automatic that dominant means aggression and reactive is not true. Many true dominant dogs never fighting another dog because the other dogs submitting to the dominance aura he projecting. Is like nobody much will pick a fight with a soldier on guard with machine gun, you not beat him un armed is a given. The submissive dog he think the same with the dominant dog is a given he dont win should he fight him, so the soldier and the dominant dog can stand there and do nothing, yes? Thanks Joe.

Thank you, so very kind. Like the training make good dog, I hoping my chatting makes good english, yes?. I tell my wife I get on here for my english improving, but she ask why a dog forum to do this, she think I come here because for chat about dogs, nothing do do with learning better english, but is good excuse to chat dogs for me, but I dont think she believe me?. Never mind is good to chat dogs for pleasure anyway, yes? Joe Love it! I think your english is already improving and you've barely been here a week, Joe. May as well practice your english chatting about something you're interested in. :D Thank you, I tell my wife that too. Joe

As long as both dogs are on lead and are apart, all you have to do is put your hand gently on the side of your dog's face, and redirect it to avoid eye contact. You may be able to train your dog to look away with a verbal command too. Distraction is another tool you can use. Truly dominant dogs facing face, nothing happens unless one tries to dominate other. Domimant dogs are not reactive like people think is true. Sometimes a defensive dog will feel scared of a dominant dog and try to act tough with him and a fight will happen, usually not bad fighting because the lesser dominant dog will back down and the fighting stops. But when we have the real trouble is when two dominant dogs come to challenge over something like food or posession and they both engage to fight is when they want to kill each other, very bad fight happening. They also steadily get more interested in the fighting living together because both dogs think they are the boss. If two dog meet and want to kill each other instantly, one of this dogs will be defense driving to cause the fighting trigger I have found in my experiences. Claiming the boss figure in dominance takes more time to happen usually. Joe I forgetting to mention, often two dogs in the dominance first meeting ignor each other, then often very slow in the movements they check each other out, bit of sniff, walk around each other, tails high with little fast wagging on the end of the tail, and what you need to watch is if one dog puts is head over the other one shoulder and that one he growl, fight is coming and I separate them, not taking the chance with this posture of each other. Joe

Thank you, so very kind. Like the training make good dog, I hoping my chatting makes good english, yes?. I tell my wife I get on here for my english improving, but she ask why a dog forum to do this, she think I come here because for chat about dogs, nothing do do with learning better english, but is good excuse to chat dogs for me, but I dont think she believe me?. Never mind is good to chat dogs for pleasure anyway, yes? Joe

Hello Jed, I work for many years in Europe for training in Schutzhund and protection with the Shepherd dogs just as a hobby and part time working was very enjoyable. I work several kennels training the German Shepherd bitches for working tests for the registration, so involvement in breeding for selection of the trait and working ability was for long time in my area of work. I don't train in Australia the protection dog because of the laws except for my wifes Labrador little bit, he bark on command, but would like another working Shepherd in the future to train definitely. I have been looking to import perhaps, but is expensive exercise from here but looking around to see what is happening. Thanks Joe

Mr Jeff, I am remembering a dog imported to Australia, perhaps in working circle you may seen him called Fax vom Grenzganger probably 10 year ago mentioning the black Shepherd dog I am thinking yes?. Fax and also Iwo vom the Grenzganger were dominant dogs, beautiful stance with the gazing eye of intent, but never nasty dogs. There are many others of course, but the Fax is one dog perhaps maybe indentify the type of personality in the dominance I speaking of? Joe Hi Joe, The dog in the video was a Fax son. It was a good video but seems to have been taken down. Greetings Jeff I think we reading on the same page with the dominance trait, as is not surprize to me learning of the Fax son. Fax was a very dominant dog, better dog (in my opinion) than his father Dolf ze Zakovy Hory (Czech lines). Dolf had the dominance and higher in the social aggression but hard dog to handle very reactive dog. Fax had the intent in his eyes, don't mess with me look, but was very calm stable dog until pressurised. Shame the youtube is not presenting video you speak, would have been good for demostration to the folks of dominance in the working dog that we speak. Joe

Mr Jeff, I am remembering a dog imported to Australia, perhaps in working circle you may seen him called Fax vom Grenzganger probably 10 year ago mentioning the black Shepherd dog I am thinking yes?. Fax and also Iwo vom the Grenzganger were dominant dogs, beautiful stance with the gazing eye of intent, but never nasty dogs. There are many others of course, but the Fax is one dog perhaps maybe indentify the type of personality in the dominance I speaking of? Joe

I do agree with what you are saying but not all dogs that are bred for for a purpose are bred for their nerve. One example is Greyhounds, all they really need to have is good prey drive and be fast. I do know that having weak nerves with no nurturing can really put them at a huge disadvantage during their training. At least if they have had some nurturing/experiences early in their life, that and their drive can pull them through what can be a difficult and is a very different experience from how they are generally raised. Yes, that is a very fine example with the Greyhound and I am imagine the breeder is good, he know hes short on nerve for the speed and drive and accomodate with the early raising is good for the racing dog and very much agree with this practicing. The working dog is much different for requirment in the nerve for the conditions he needs to work. Joe

Seems little bit missing on the information? maybe dogs can get out the yard run out and bite somebody and run back in perhaps, then the ranger sieze them like that? Joe

I agree with most of you're post JoeK. The only thing is you state the dominant dogs you have dealt with have a wide window when they first growl to when they may bite and air snapping. I have not found any of the dogs I would classify as dominant to complete air snapping and they are quick to engage. This does not mean they are unpredictable, it is fairly easy to predict when a dominant dog is going to engage. I will agree with you're comment on training dominant dogs. If you are silly enough to fight dominance with dominance you better be prepared to be seriously hurt in the process... Hello Mr Jeff, good to hear from you. Some dogs I find the waters muddy between the purely dominant trait and the combination with the civil drive when the dog he bites in panic when you push him. Like you push him into the crate and he swing around and bite you in defence is very fast to engage like the Malinios, no clarity in the head like the German Shepherd, just my opinion on the Malinios reaction, you blink, he got you chomp!!. But, the pure dominance in the German Shepherd I find is not snap on panic because you push him in the crate, he says you bugger (excusing my french), I am not wanting to go in there in the crate and if you keep on push me in, he growl and telling you stop push me in there or I will bite you, yes. The growl begins like pussy cat purring and winds up, maybe a few seconds before he engage. He also in the purely dominance stop fast the growl if you take away your hands of him. Hes not working in defence like he needs to kill you, he just wants to win the argument, you back off hes happy again. Is hard to explain in the writing here for me, but dominance and defense is different in my learning on the reaction, but is similar and easy mistaken on the trait. I warn my friend Mr Jeff, do not fit the prong collar to that dog once to treat dominance, he says I show him who's boss, I tell him that dog will show you and he did 34 stiches in his leg from the prong correction on a dominant dog, must train the dominant dog with your head and outsmart him, he work for you no worries. Joe Yes, the air snapping, maybe, I pull away my hand fast enough and he miss the bite on me?

If that's right - every dog I've met including mine is dominant. Mine has been called an "omega" dog. She crawls into every greeting and rolls over and even pees sometimes, seems very submissive. Except when she's hunting in the hedge and she's in it for herself and I have to go get her (or hide and freak her out). She will quite happily take over leadership in any group of dogs or people or mix if nobody else steps up. She doesn't challenge though if some other dog says they want the whatever, she's very happy to hand it over. Although sometimes she insists on a game of chase-me first. And she has displayed some peacemaker behaviours as she matures. Is fascinating to watch. And is yet another reason why I have a hard time with the conventional definitions of "dominance". Mrs Rusty, my apology that your dog is not dominant, is disobedients you describe. Dominant in the true meaning not often come in the female dog, very rare and usually male trait yes. Dominant dog does not greet people becuase he think hes too good and he may have competition to submit, he don't like submit so he is aloof always. If the dog she roll over and pee is dead opposite of dominance in the trait. Out going excitment is not dominance in the trait, is different thing. Joe

A dominant dog from my experience with the working Shepherd, is like an outlaw dog, he like to do things his way when he wants and when you try to dominate him to do want you want, he argue and voice he has disaproval. Hes confident cocky dog, high tail, tall neck in the body language, good nerve no scared but he love himself and thinks to himself he is the best and the world is for hes benifit. He has attitude like smarty pants, yes, you want me to do something, make me he thinks becuase I am the boss, and he bluff with a growl and warn you mess with me and I bite you, like that. The dominant dog is not snappy aggressive, if things goes his way, hes good dog no worries, if you want him to go to the crate and he doesnt want to go and you try and push him in the crate, he growl and tell you he getting pissed off and he may have to bite you. The Dominant dog has a wide window from when he first growl to when he may bite and he winds up like a lion before he bite, sometimes he air snap, not defense aggressive different thing. You train the dominant dog with the brain not the boot and outsmart their thinking and never back away from intimidation. They are bit of pain too dominant in the training because they challenge you too often, little bit just confident dominance is good, much dominance is not helpful to the training, slows down the progress, best is average dominance in the dog, too much is not useful trait for the training. Joe

In my opinion you take the dog to the dog park, let him off the leash, you cop it on the chin what happens, because you can not predict how somebody elses dog behave. So best not to go to the dog park at all for better chance at keeping the dogs safe. Nobody win at the dog park, if the dog cant fight you dog may die. If he can fight, you get him put to sleep or go to jail, so what is the point of going in the first place when nobody win? Joe

Yes, she's beautiful girl, very nice size she looks is substantial bitch from my seeing with good reactions and focus, nice handler bond with the dog. My best wishes for your future, she looks to have the drives to do anything in working roles you put to her. The Malinios distinctive have what I say is the kick out on the back legs on the jumping when working in power and you see what I mean on a higher jump. She just stepping over, is too easy for her. Is best for the dog to teach a retrieve on the jump too, gives her more to think about, throw the tug over the jump, she jump, she pick up and jump back over to a front sit is good like the Schutzhund obedience is very good foundation in the working dog. Joe

I'm pretty wary about people giving specific advice on a public forum about either corrections or aggression, there is just too much potential for things to go wrong. I think it is good and useful to talk about these things in general. But a forum is a tricky medium to give advice on - you may give the wrong advice (due the owner describing the problem incorrectly), or the owner might misinterpret what you say, or they may understand what you say but not have the skill to competently do what you advise. You're right that pulling on the leash is a minor problem compared to many, but giving a correction is a skill to learn hands-on I think, not by experimentation. Some soft dogs will crumble if you over-correct them, many dogs will get confused or upset if you correct them unfairly or at the wrong time, some owners lack the experience to tell these things are happening until too late. You sound pretty knowledgeable, though, so I look forward to you sharing your advice. Can I ask, what's your background in dog training? Yes, I began training with the German Shepherd dog for decoy work at a kennel in Germany when a young man for the Schutzhund passing the working test for registration. Then the boss give me the pup for training and handling for the Schutzhund test, not the competition dogs, but for the breeding bitch I train 5 female to the Schh1 was a lot of fun if you love the Shepherd dog. Then we go to the Czech Republik where I train protection dogs in the working lines. We live is several places around Europe with much training on the German Shepherd Belgian Malinois and the Dutch Shepherd, a little bit on the KNPV mostly Schutzhund and protection. Beautiful country in Australia, we love very much, but I very careful to train the protection dog here and go to jail for dog like a weapon is no good for the laws here. Is good to chat about the training, I like very much and I learning better writing skill in the English is fun. My last working was for many years the protection dog in the pet and work very much on suitability for lovely pet dog to work on command where I learn the importance of the nerve of the dog and the genes for pet and working animal which is spanning with dog now for 27 years. Still plenty lo learn about the dog and is good here with many people to chat about the dog, very enjoyable thanks. Joe

Yes, there probably is no harm in the bio sensor and perhaps it has some good, no worries, but what happens like the add for the Malinios pups, someone say we don't know what happens in the pups from born to 8 weeks so we should all panic and assume the pups will be no good at the working? In my experiences, I have seen more better dogs when grown up and trained properly begin from nothing special treatment and some like Pierre Walhstrom is good example wins a world Schutzhund championship with a rescue Shepherd dog he got from a pet home at 18 months old. Many people don't want this dog, is too old, no training, no socialise, no nothing is bad dog out of control on drive. Pierre he have a look to the dog as says YES, this dog has very good traits and the good gene, I take him to my home, he train him and win a world title. So, the point I make, this dog has talented trait by the genes and is what counts is the genetic make up above all else. I have seen the dog raised many time from a list and the handler stick to this list like the bible, at 6pm you play tuggy for 12 minutes, at 6am you feed the special food with a special powder you do this, you do that, yes, and the dog come onto the field as a superdog, and is no good, is just average dog after all this lists followed to produce the excellence didint happen? So, what I learn is above all else the dog if born with the good genes for working, he will be a good worker regardless. Joe

Please be careful with the big dogs, very dangerous for the little dog getting snappy with the big dogs should be not near them, for the big dog can kill him too easily, very scary situation yes? The little dog when angry sometimes thinks hes big and can win at fighting a big dog, some big dogs may run away from him, some will defend and big versing small is no good to happen. Joe

Mr Jeff, how are you again. My difference is if someone is smart to come on here and ask a question with the training, I would not think of them as too stupid to accept and answer, yes? Niether, I think is pulling on the leash is rocket science to explain for somebody to understand, very basic behavior that most dogs do to pull on the leash at some time. I agree is sensitive perhaps if somebody dogs wants to bite old ladys on a walking stick, maybe then we butt out for a trainer to assessment of the dog, but pulling on the leash Mr Jeff, my opinion is worthy to discuss, why not? Joe Mr Joe, I am fine... I do not believe because someone is capable of posting on an online forum that they have the ability to be able to successfully diagnose there dogs behaviour and apply a training method which they do not have experience in. Whilst this is a fairly minor problem, it could be complicated through inappropriate training techniques and the handlers inability in applying them. For this reason I always suggest people contact an appropriate trainer and if possible make personal recommendations. And as other posters have suggested I recommend they contact K9 Pro... See Mr Jeff, you do agree with me the pulling on the leash is minor, yes nothing for the rocket sience so is no worries. Even my english is still learning properly, I see in the add easy the dog pulls for a sniff, pulls to play with the dog, normal dog behavior and not in one second do I think the person who post the add did not give a clear understanding of the dog what he does. Of course get a trainer, but maybe they have no money for trainer now and just ask for little help who knose?. I make my comment beacuse so many of the adds for training just say get a trainer. Perhaps I am thinking on the training colum just have in the big letters GET A TRAINER and we all shutup. I am joking about the big letters, but is good to have training chat, ok maybe I am wrong? We chat a again Mr Jeff, have a good one Joe

Yes, to use the carrot is very good, but to avoid the threshold thinking nothing can be teached is only happening because there is no stick which must be used also. Some dogs can be trained with only the carrot, but most need the carrot and the stick to have the best from the dog. Joe

Mr Jeff, how are you again. My difference is if someone is smart to come on here and ask a question with the training, I would not think of them as too stupid to accept and answer, yes? Niether, I think is pulling on the leash is rocket science to explain for somebody to understand, very basic behavior that most dogs do to pull on the leash at some time. I agree is sensitive perhaps if somebody dogs wants to bite old ladys on a walking stick, maybe then we butt out for a trainer to assessment of the dog, but pulling on the leash Mr Jeff, my opinion is worthy to discuss, why not? Joe