Blonde_Phoenix

I'm a massive fan of Christopher Guest (re-watched Spinal Tap tonight so good ) so number one for me is Best in Show, it totally appeals to my sense of humour. As a kid it was Footrot Flats and Oliver and Company, I spent so long trying to draw the characters. Old Yeller will always get me tearing up.

My boy is home alone in the yard generally about 8-9 hours, on occasions a little more. To keep him busy he gets a variety of food things, stuffed kongs, 'sardine/dog food popsicles', food stuffed in cardboard (toilet rolls, pizza boxes or whatever we have around). He also has his shell pool now that it's warmer, he's a big boy so no risk of drowning, the only risk is him dragging the pool around the yard ;) . And of course plenty of shade and water. He seems pretty happy during the day, he's not destructive at all generally. If we are home during the day he's usually resting anyway. In fact when my OH came home during the day he managed to get in the house and step over the pup without him waking, awesome guard dog we have here

It’s definitely not an easy situation Penny which must be really stressful and especially so when it’s family involved. I too would advise against hitting her to hard with the negatives, I don’t think anyone will ‘win’ if you take a negative approach. It’s unfortunately human nature that if someone tells you no or you can’t do it (even with the best of intentions) you are more than likely to jump in there just to prove them wrong rather than listening to their advise/opinions objectively.

Thank you Steve for answering my question, I'll admit I had a very limited idea about the level of regulation breeders were faced with. I don't think it will happen but it would be nice if we could all step back, take a deep breath, drop our prejudices and start coming up with solutions rather than constant hurdles.

Bullbreedlover to be honest I'm not sure what more you can say, I think you have summed things up pretty well. I extend you the upmost respect you are brave enough to put yourself out there to defend the breed you obviously love. I hate the fact if legislations change it's the guys who are doing the right thing who will suffer the most. And unfortunately if that was to occur I think you guys would be left out on your own, the rest of us would shake our heads and say "yeah well we all know Bulldogs (or any other breed which we are not involved with) are unhealthy/poorly bred/only about making money, there is no issues with our breed of course" .

But do 'typey sound healthy British Bulldogs' win at shows? I don't have the answer I just pose inane questions ;) but they are what people are thinking.

I think that is a question all breeder should ask themselves not just Bulldog breeders. I'm quite optimistic that a lot have good answers to this question, but I think if they don't they should really reconsider what their priorities are.

I think the quote that was taken exception to was this one I don't think it was Conztruct's intention to say that those who own dogs from 'less reputable' sources consider their pets throw-away (well at least I hope they didn't). My families BYB girl is seriously the greatest dog to walk the earth ( well in my unbiased opinion anyway). She has just retired from agility competitions at age thirteen obviously not a good poster pup for BYB dogs are unhealthy. I'm genuinely interested Steve, where is the over regulation coming from, is it the government or is it dog organisations? I don't breed so I honestly don't know.

You make some great points Steve. The conversation seems too often to be dominated by personal agendas rather that the health and welfare of the dogs. Why must it be all or nothing? Why couldn't a number of organisations coexist respectfully with health and welfare at their core?

I agree the term ‘registered’ needs to be clearly defined; the messages which are out there for the public are very confusing. Like most here I would define registered as ANKC registered. But how does the ANKC ensure its ‘registered’ breeders are meeting what most would consider basic health and welfare requirements? We all have our ideas on what registered breeders should be doing (though I’m sure they differ between us) but are they doing it? Does any auditing procedure exist? I think if we want to ‘sell’ the premise that ANKC registered breeders are the best choice we need to back it up with hard evidence. No ‘expert’ is going to take up our cause without a substantial amount documented facts, to defend themselves from the onslaught they will face from those with a ‘PDE’ mentality.

Aussie, I think it's a combination, a bit from nature and a bit from nurture. Breeding from known lines allows choices to be made to increase the chances of a ‘good’ natured dog, but of course it’s not an exact science. I do think also (and this is a massive generalisation) that those who choose to own registered purebred dogs would tend to have more interest/knowledge/experience in dogs when compared to the general dog owning public. This in turn would lead to better behavioural outcomes. My statement was more to do with how the ANKC represents itself rather than passing judgement on dogs from other origins. I totally agree there are plenty of lovely natured cross breeds out there and plenty of their owners are just as knowledgeable and responsible as those who own purebreds.

I thought that was a very thought provoking article, it wasn’t an easy read and throws up quite a few ethical landmines. Not being involved with the breed I am in no position to state how similar the Australian situation is to the UK and US examples in the article. I think those involved with Bulldogs (and other dogs with major health concerns for that matter) have to be careful about putting their heads in the sand, it’s far too easy to dismiss article such as this one purely as a ‘witch-hunt’. If I was involved in the breed my real concern would be that an animal welfare organisation (well meaning or otherwise) would get in the ear of government and unless breeders are able to provide the figures that back up their claims that the breed is healthy (and that they continue to be proactive in ensuring their breeds health) they will face the very real possibility of breed bans. A situation I’d hate to see.

Indigirl, I guess we can put both misunderstandings down as a great example how dangerous the written/typed word can be, it’s very open to personal interpretations. I don’t want to get bogged down in the ‘blue’ issue, but I think it’s an example of when a puppy inquirer can accidently cross some secrete line and get off on the wrong foot. I’d hate to think that preference for a colour would automatically preclude someone from consideration. Appearance is a factor and while it should not be the only factor it is still important, I don’t think many people choose a dog/breed they don’t find attractive. This sort of inquiry is a great opportunity to increase the puppy inquirers knowledge. Yes not everyone will listen and some will rush straight out and get their ‘rare’ blue pup from where ever they can, others may still get their blue pup but are able to make a more informed decision, and others may decide that other factors are more important. Sandgrubber, transparency is one of the things I’d most like to see. The breed I own has a publicly available database on the internet (it’s not run out of Australia) which includes hip and elbow scores. I think this is great and would love to see it more commonly. I assume it would come down to breed specific clubs to drive this sort of initiative. I do realise some may be concerned that a little information can be a dangerous thing, but I truly believe it’s far better to be on the front foot than constantly fighting back after the attack. I would also imagine that ANKC registered purebred dogs (no matter the breed) are unlikely to have been involved in any fatal (to a human) dog attack, less likely to be involved with other attacks and less likely to be abandoned and mistreated, but I’ve never seen anyone pushing these sort of points.

Indigirl I do apologise that you have misinterpreted my statement it was flippant I admit (inverted commas would have been prudent), but it was meant to highlight the attitude of a large proportion of the public rather than my own opinion. I will standby my belief that the purebred world is about more than showing though. All aspects are important and no single aspect is more important than another. I do understand the level of defensiveness that has been shown as 'show dogs' have been getting a pretty bad rap lately, but I don't think it serves any of us well to leap on the defensive. I again agree with Mita's statements showing dogs does allow great opportunities for socialisation and training but that message is just not getting through. This goes back to the original intent of this post "why is this not getting through to the public, who is responsible and what can we do?" Why do I bother to come here? Because I care about and want to openly discuss issues relating to purebred dogs with others who care about purebred dogs. I don't see where I have said a word against purebred dogs, nor that I have anything against showing. In fact I've spent plenty of time at shows assisting my dogs breeder. Sure we wont always agree but I don't think that lessens my right to post. What I do find odd is the number of breeders jumping from 1+1 and getting 4, correct me if I'm wrong but I have definitely not (and I'm pretty sure no one else has on this thread) suggested that breeders should lower their selection criteria when it comes to potential owners. I will stick with my belief that no puppy inquiry should be posted on a public forum for ridicule. The "blue bitch puppy" comment is a little too cute for my liking but I guess we purebred owners are not informed enough to get the insinuation ;)

Blonde Phoenix, a puppy can definitely be high drive, I suggest you watch the video called 'So you think you want a high drive puppy'. I hope Nekhbet and others that understand this topic abit more drop a line on what they think. Bobby after rereading my post I think I worded the last part of my reply wrong. Yes a puppy can show a higher level of drive. Though I do think it needs to be nurtured to display what I consider true drive. I may have the wrong idea of drive but to me it about the dog having and intense desire to to preform an instructed task. I think it is hard to create and far easier to suppress. In regards to the OP I do think that the term is too often used to describe dogs (and more particularly breeds) who tend to be more energetic and dam I can think of a better word “crazy” .

Anne I agree you are on to something . I love the idea of breeder support, I don’t think that it would be a difficult or expensive thing to implement. Offer breeders some webpage templates, ideas and maybe a list of dos and don’ts. And yes everyone plays their part, we can’t rely or expect the ANKC or any organisation to do all of the work. Even I think I have a role to play purely as an owner and I do take it seriously. I educate people about my dogs breed with honesty (he’s not for everyone), try to gently sway those I know in to choosing a purebred and definitely promote basic training (not matter the dogs origin). Mita I think a ‘purebred pride day’ would be great to see here in Australia, lets get the message out that purebreds are not just about prancing about a show ring, they also make incredible and healthy pets and companions.

Short answer yes! Long answer....... What exactly is drive? My sister described her dog as ‘high drive’ and professional trainers have agreed, mine and my partners (uneducated) opinion is she is needy and hard to control. I should be careful my sister is active on the forum I might tear me apart LOL ;) (we love your girl an will puppy sit anytime). Our boy is way more laid back in general but when it’s go time he is unstoppable. Super willing to learn and with enthusiasm which most dogs would find hard to match. Can drive be switched on and off in the dog world? I guess it depends on the breed expectation and the definition of drive. Can a young puppy really be described as “high dive”? I don’t think so, lets face it all pups are a bit crazy. Older dogs described that way, well without professional opinion I’d guess the majority are just poorly trained/socialised.

I was going to say a rescue cross breed but I reread you post and you said were also interested in showing. I have a soft spot for terriers too. Have you ruled out a Staffordshire Bull Terrier? My families staffy x fits all your requirements only negative I could see was the potential for dog aggression, our cross has none but the breed is considered to have some (not that I have seen it). I do love all your terrier suggestions particularly the Airedale, have you thought of an Irish Terrier?

OK this thread has deviated very much from my original intention. I’m sitting here tossing my hands up and pleading “not guilty’. Obviously there is a lot of personal feelings I have accidentally brushed, but that was far from the intention of my original post (it had nothing to do with breeders, take a chance to read my OP), though I did engage (my bad). I will toss out my 2 cents for what it’s worth purely as an owner of a purebred registered dog, while I believe open and robust debate is good, this kind of debate on a public forum does not help anyones cause. For me it deters any slight ambition I had for breeding. LOL I was excited I thought people were replying to my original post (naive )

Whitka and Gayle I have noticed that vibe from some breeders and find it really disheartening and I don't think breeders can ignore their role in the promotion of pure bred dogs (like it or not) as they are often the first point of contact for Joe public. I really do feel for breeders (heck I have no ambition to breed I don't think I could deal with the stress) and I'm sure for most of them it steams from negative experiences. I do have to question though why you would be open to puppy inquires from the public if you really are not interested in dealing with them? Just judging from some of the replies to puppy inquires I've seen I can see why some potential owners turn to pet shops and the trading post. No one likes to feel stupid and some breeder have to cut us new guys a little slack (we aren't all 'puppy farmers' in puppy owners clothing ;) ). I am hopeful that breeders who feel so negative towards puppy inquiries are in the minority. I can only really judge the breeders I have had direct dealings with and I have not come across a bad one. In particular the breeder of my pup who is always available to give me advice, answer my stupid questions, lend me equipment etc, I'm so lucky she is a awesome

I definitely see where you are coming from Anne. I have to admit I was a bit slack before my OP and had not actually read through the ANKC constitution, but after having a quick skim through I noted Objective (b) It's a pretty non specific statement which is very much open to personal interpretation, but I would interpret from the statement that one of the key objectives of the ANKC is promotion. Quality promotion and marketing definitely comes at a cost and I think it would be near impossible for the ANKC to convince members pay increased fees in the name of marketing and promotion. Particularly as it would require members to have faith that the ANKC would be able to mount an effective campaign. Plus no one ever likes increased fees (I know I was on the committee for the work social club and you should have heard the outcry when beers went up 50 cents ). An interesting thing I noted while reading through the ANKC national membership statistics (1995-2010), membership has been failing since 1995 in fact it's fallen 39%. Of course one should always exercise caution when reading into statistics but I do think it's an alarming trend.

OK I’m putting this out there as a first post and I promise this is not meant to be inflammatory just a conversation starter. Is the Australian National Kennel Council and its state affiliations doing the right thing in the promotion of purebred dogs? As a noobie I will say I’m not sure. I feel (rightly or wrongly) that the ANKC still focuses too heavily on ‘show dogs’. I feel that we also focus to much on the negatives of the ‘opposition’ instead of promoting our own positives. Unfortunately I think the bad guys are dominating the press and the good stories are getting drowned out. What I would love to see: Open and transparent health testing results (appropriate to breed) Minimum temperament/obedience requirements for breeding dogs More focus on dog sports in particular those which relate to original breed purpose Of course confirmation continues to be important Can I add less ‘bitchiness’ LOL I think that’s more of a personal thing not sure the ANCK can help that (but we have all seen it) , I fear we (i.e. those who care about purebred dogs) are not just losing the battles we are losing the war. Case in point I own a large/giant breed at the vet for his final puppy injections the topic of desexing came up the vet was keen for me to have our boy done at six months I said his breeder has advised we wait until at least 12 months. Her reply was that breeders are just interested in confirmation for show dogs. I bit and stated that to me conformation has a lot to do with a dogs ability to be fit for purpose and healthy family pets, she grudgingly agreed (we did get a letter in the mail when he was approaching 6 month spruiking desexing). If vets are not on side with breeders I think we will struggle to win over the masses. I’m not silly, I understand even putting politics and personal agendas to one side the is not a one stop fix, but is the ANCK just a toothless tiger? How do they (can they) ensure registered breeders abide by their code of ethics? My background for those who are interested I’m a first time purebred owner (amazing pup and breeder, I could not be happier), I’ve grown up with cross breeds as pets who have all been good dogs (so sorry can’t be too negative about them ;)). My sister owns an gorgeous purebred girl and my partners sister owns two purebred boys. We are all converts and wont go back. Sorry for the long post it’s just something I feel passionate about, I'm really interested in what others (who I'm sure are way more informed than myself) have to say.