HazyWal

This was two years ago I remember it well it was appalling. She got more than she bargained for though and was slammed on social media and went to ground for a while. What a cretin she is

A safe seat held by the Nats for 70 years, the people have spoken including those pesky uneducated, illiterate greyhound peeps. Council amalgamations were a huge part of their downfall but the greyhound ban was the straw the broke the Nationals back Grant has just announced his resignation, we can only hope Casino Mike follows suit.

Maddy if you are so sure that some know that some others are drowning puppies ,how do you think they know this and how many breeders that you know drown puppies have you reported? You cant just rock up and say I think they are routinely drowning puppies and its not something that a breeder brags about. You can say that s not that sire and its easily proven via DNA so if you know its happened then have you reported it ?.How do you know someone else is aware of it or that its not just gossip? If you know these things and dont report them then why are you less guilty of someone else who you think may know something .Why would a greyhound breeder drown puppies? I imagine this would be highly unlikely for 2 reasons that I can think of, the first being they cost too much to get on the ground, they would rather sell and recoup some of their costs than waste money and the second they wouldn't risk drowning a good dog. Yep. I don't think she's talking about greyhound puppies, I think she's using an example of if ANKC breeders did something dodgy :/ Well that's how I read it.

I'm sorry to hear about your families horse Westiemum yes nobbling was quite common back in the day, I think there wouldn't be many people who don't know the story of Phar Lap. I wasn't inviting you to the track I was just saying a new track is due for completion next year in Murray Bridge and if you hadn't been to a track in many years I suggested you go along. I understand completely why you would never go near a track again. My invitation was to visit a kennel facility, no where near a track, to see what goes on today but yes, when you're next in Melbs we would love to meet you and so would Stan and Maddie :) GAPSA were over here not long ago to see how well GAPVIC operates, they are making many improvements in fact GRSA just implemented a track injury fund that will provide funds to help greys involved in race related accidents and after rehab, fast track their entry to the GAPSA programme.

sarcasm alert perhaps, interesting, so they wont have to register as a business, get council permit, get an abn or the 10 million insurance? and allowed to keep their retired dogs? perhaps everyone should call their dogs greyhounds and race them, even if its only once in their lifetime? Well there are still council approvals required - an article on the paper about a council kicking a Greyhound breeder out. A Local Laws issue rather than a welfare issue by the sounds of it. If this is the one in the Cranbourne area they were not "kicked out" by council at all. The council rejected the application after a huge push from the Animal Justice Party and anti racing groups (most who wouldn't even know where Cranbourne was) and a neighbour who was concerned about the noise and that the greys could escape and chase her chooks. Yep. They sold the property without appeal to Frankston Council and relocated to South Gippsland.

WM I'm interested to know how many people you personally know in the greyhound industry. Have you been to a kennel or breeding/rearing facility or at least attended a track? Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't you only recently meet a greyhound for the first time? Correcting Hazy. I grew up in a racing family - we owned race horses, I rode and I went to 'the dogs' many times and have been to kennels owned by friends of my father (he always had to be fully involved in everything he did ) . It was Andy my westie who met a grey for the first time recently - Harley's beautiful Polly - not me. . Ah I thought you grew up in a horse racing family, so did I. My father was a bookmaker (I've been to more tracks than most people have had hot dinners)he also drove trotters and owned thoroughbreds and my grandfather and two of my uncles owned greyhounds so I've had a lifetime of experience across all three codes of racing. Ahhhh the good old days but times have changed, thankfully. You should get yourself along to a greyhound kennel in your area and see how different it is these days. I can try and organise it in your state if you would like so you can speak personally to a trainer? There are many trainers across most states that have offered many times for people to visit their facilities to see first hand how they are run but unfortunately people would rather just believe what they read on main stream and social media. The new track at Murray Bridge will be state of the art, go along to a meeting when it opens. Shame you're not in Victoria, you could visit Larissa (gapvic on DOL) and see how the welfare programmes work here, I've been there because I like to see things first hand and it's fantastic. She has been with Greyhound Racing Victoria for many years and I'm sure she would not be involved with an organisation that is rife with this "systematic" cruelty you speak of. Anyway just let me know and I'll see what I can tee up in SA.

WM I'm interested to know how many people you personally know in the greyhound industry. Have you been to a kennel or breeding/rearing facility or at least attended a track? Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't you only recently meet a greyhound for the first time?

And thank god for that. Laws concerning animals need to be based on science and our understanding of their behaviour, not on personal preferences of people who don't know enough about the breed but still claim to know what's best for the dogs. I stand corrected. I hadn't realised that had not gone through. I know you think it is best because of the high prey drive of greys, but there are many dogs NOT greyhounds that have just as high a prey drive and there aren't any muzzle laws for them, unless they first demonstrate a problem. Not all greys are unsafe in public, whether or not they have undergone the GAP green collar program. I don't understand why you think that it is fair for one high prey drive to be singled out, and others (plus greyhound crosses) to go scot free. And I do worry also that some public think the muzzles mean that the greys are human aggressive due to muzzles and there go some potential good homes. But this is not the right thread to discuss this I apologise for off topic. The answer is quite simple, greyhounds are the fastest dog on the planet. I'm not talking about crosses I'm talking race bred greyhounds and when you are the custodian of the fastest dog on the planet with virtually no recall you have a responsibility to keep them safe first and foremost. That old chestnut about muzzles lessening the chances of greys finding homes just doesn't cut it anymore although the anti racing people still trot it out on a daily basis. Greyhounds are everywhere now and through the good work of places like GAPVIC, many people now know what the muzzle is intended for and has nothing to do with them being aggressive. It's simply the law and I, like Maddy, hope it stays in place because as she said people just simply do not know enough about the breed. They are adopting them because the media tells them (fuelled by those AR's you speak of)that they are hit on the head with hammers and thrown into shark infested waters on a daily basis. They are not your average dog and in the wrong hands can be a lethal weapon...I know this full well as I own one..... Maddie.

But the sighthounds, as a group, are very healthy. I don't think you could honestly say the same of brachy breeds? If your dog needs its nostrils widened and its soft palate trimmed just to be able to draw breath like a normal dog, I think you have a massive problem with conformation and the standard that isn't going to be fixed by telling people not to be idiots. 100% agree. Are you of the assumption that well bred brachys need nares and palate surgery before they can comfortably be walked around the block? This is not true. Only poorly bred ones do. It is as simple as that. Long lived, problem free brachys do exist - although there are vets that will happily do nares and palate surgery where it is absolutely not needed. We can point to flyball and agilty champion brachys, but these will be thrown out with the bathwater if those behind the push get their way. And don't for an instant assume that the animal rights people will not find an excuse against sighthounds - it will be something. Too much prey drive for recall training perhaps?? It is never safe to assume that your own breed is comfortably safe against AR driven legislation. Consider that historically, greyhounds had the earliest BSL in Victoria against them (thankfully gone at long last.) What do you mean "thankfully gone at long last"? The muzzle and off leash laws for greyhounds in Victoria is still very much in place, the government has decided to further review it and there is, at this stage, no idea when or if they will decide to lift that legislation. The fact that independent "rescue" groups here refuse to obey the law and encourage others to do the same tends to blur the lines on what is fact.

Yeah, be careful, I reckon they're around. :D :) Kirislin. IKR. Silly me started looking as soon as I posted that... I should know better, but I do love me a hound :) You can get one directly from a trainer, there are racing FB pages that list giveaways. Contrary to popular belief dogs of that age rarely have injuries it's their failure to chase that usually has them looking for a home. Out of all the foster greys I had only Maddie had a sprung toe which has never bothered her. There was a black 2 year old male listed yesterday, great with other dogs. PM me if you want the name of the page to join....or don't lol

The death threats I got came from Animal rights people who apparently had links to Oscars Law Greyhound people don't have a monopoly on nutterism and you don't have to have links to bikies to be scary. Aint that the truth Steve. Bit like the death threats Billy Slater the footballer and his family received from the anti racing brigade when he was to appear at a family night at Albion Park greyhounds last month. He had to pull out and deleted all advertising of the event from his FB page, and then there's this AR nutter *sigh* where do I start with Heather Howard? I and many, many others were stalked, harassed and threatened for years by this woman until she was finally arrested 9 months ago, released on bail and breached bail conditions within 2 days so was arrested again. She had me and others blocked but I accessed one of her pages through someone elses account one day and it freaked me right out the stuff she had in there. There were 1000's of photos of greyhound peeps with all these weird rantings under them. I was one of them. Obviously she is not one of the "good people" of the anti racing peeps? http://www.qt.com.au/news/woman-charged-after-greyhound-investigation/2828094/

No worries TSD thanks for listening. Yes I agree that they must be seen to be being proactive, I think that's where the good industry participants are frustrated because as stated many times breeding had halved in the last 12 months and as the overbreeding of greyhounds has always been my personal issue with the industry I saw that as a major step forward. Unfortunately, like you said, the general public didn't know that, how could they? GRNSW didn't exactly promote that fact did they so how the hell would anyone outside the industry know? That's where all states should take a leaf out of Greyhound Racing Victoria's book and SHOW the high welfare standards that are set here. I have personally rung GRV and enquired about various things and they couldn't be more helpful. Ring GRNSW and I doubt they even have an answering machine

Yes I have no doubt it will be passed when it goes through the lower house, yet another dodgy move by Baird but anyhoo. I also have no doubt that the industry WILL win in court but the problem there is how long will it take? Years I suspect and by that time the livelihoods of many will be long gone. Pet food distributors closed down and bankrupt, people with mortgages crushed and then there's the reality of suicides. I hope those that are feeling like they can't go on read Baird's link to Lifeline on the end of his facebook post, you know, so they know where to ring

How did a testimony from some bloke in the US from 2005, which clearly had nothing to do with NSW let alone Australia make its way into the report and yes...incompetence from GRNSW for sure. This article is interesting, why was Newson appointed? His appointment was dodgy and his hasty departure even dodgier and what was with the middle finger he flipped at those in the industry via social media, from behind the safety of the back door he snuck out of? Something about the whole thing smells like the skip bin behind my local fish and chip shop and it all points to one person and that prime 10 acres that Wenty Park sits on. http://www.australianracinggreyhound.com/australian-greyhound-racing/new-south-wales-greyhound-racing/opinion-the-hardest-part-about-greyhound-racing-ban-in-nsw/79809 HW - I haven't followed the link yet but the statement by the US bloke was NEVER purported to be testimony. It was a clear reference to another report. You can't have an organisation as important as GA put forward written reports with numbers and suddenly withdraw them without raising some sort of suspicion. GRNSW had every opportunity to provide data to the commission - again and again the information was incomplete. They don't even list litter sizes - numbers of Greys are based on THEIR estimate of 6.3 per litter. That wasn't the Commission's estimate. ETA: Completely get the perspective in the link. Can understand the industry being pi$$ed off at their representatives. But that's the first time I've heard that side of it and I have been following this with great interest. That's where the energy should be focussed - not attacking the RSPCA and Commissioner and the general public - just looks like sour grapes. Oh I agree GRNSW are as dodgy as, they failed, the industry participants failed, the only winners here are the animal rights groups. It's great that you are interested in the links I've provided and it's great to see members of the general public reading info and saying "hmmm ok yes that's odd" but you are sadly in the minority. Sour grapes is an odd way to put it, good people are set to lose everything they are irate, depressed they are lashing out as anyone would. One trainer I was reading about out west had taken out a loan to update his facilities to the new standards bought in, 12 months ago I might add. He decided to redevelop his whole property, putting in a new bullring, slipping track, full aircon and heating to his kennel facilities spending hundreds of thousands of dollars as he was confident the industry in NSW was moving forward, he had created a state of the art rearing and training facility...nek minute...gone. In debt up to his eyeballs and how is he going to sell it? Who wants it? Every...single...day they are asked by the public "why don't you just keep them, you would if you loved them like you say" when who can afford to keep 30 dogs as pets? They are bred as racing stock it's a racing industry. I mean really, if every breeder of every dog "really loved" their pups they breed no one would own a pet would they? As you said, that's the first time you've heard that side of it but a majority of the general public will never see it. Mainly because they aren't looking for the other side, are simply not interested or just saw the full page ads the government placed in the Sydney papers and thought "oh that's terrible, yes shut it down" and went and made a sandwich without another thought. ETA I don't remember talking about the RSPCA :/ maybe I did somewhere but I could care less about the RSPCA.

How did a testimony from some bloke in the US from 2005, which clearly had nothing to do with NSW let alone Australia make its way into the report and yes...incompetence from GRNSW for sure. This article is interesting, why was Newson appointed? His appointment was dodgy and his hasty departure even dodgier and what was with the middle finger he flipped at those in the industry via social media, from behind the safety of the back door he snuck out of? Something about the whole thing smells like the skip bin behind my local fish and chip shop and it all points to one person and that prime 10 acres that Wenty Park sits on. http://www.australianracinggreyhound.com/australian-greyhound-racing/new-south-wales-greyhound-racing/opinion-the-hardest-part-about-greyhound-racing-ban-in-nsw/79809

For anyone interested in the flaws in the report being explained by someone with many years of experience in greyhounds, Dr Liz Brown who was the vet that spoke up and exposed the three vets in the report as not having the credentials they claimed to have, is explaining key points each day on her FB page Northern Rivers Vet Clinic. If you can get past the "parasite" and "you scum dog killer" posts from the anti's which she deletes when she has the time, you can find some interesting discussions. https://web.facebook.com/Northernriversvetservicecasino/

I have no idea how my post got lost in the middle of TSD and mystifies post but this was it. Yes the good old GA that just threw out a figure of 17,000 with no thought to it at all when all of a sudden they thought "oops, hang on that can't be right there wouldn't be enough dogs to race!". Of course within about 30 seconds of that figure being announced the anti's jumped on it like seagulls on a chip, scurrying around raking in money from the sheeple and whacking up billboards all over the joint emblazoned with "17,000 dogs die!!!!!" Or 18,000 if you live in Brisbane, hell I've seen the figure of 30,000 from the frothing with excitement anti brigade. GA retracted the figure later but really, if they had retracted that 2 seconds later it would of made no difference. They claimed the back track from GA was lies, of course, because you can't let the truth get in the way of a good story. As the old saying goes "A lie can make it's way around the world before the truth has even put it's shoes on"

Yes the good old GA that just threw out a figure of 17,000 with no thought to it at all when all of a sudden they thought "oops, hang on that can't be right there wouldn't be enough dogs to race!". Of course within about 30 seconds of that figure being announced the anti's jumped on it like seagulls on a chip, scurrying around raking in money from the sheeple and whacking up billboards all over the joint emblazoned with "17,000 dogs die!!!!!" Or 18,000 if you live in Brisbane, hell I've seen the figure of 30,000 from the frothing with excitement anti brigade. GA retracted the figure later but really, if they had retracted that 2 seconds later it would of made no difference. They claimed the back track from GA was lies, of course, because you can't let the truth get in the way of a good story. As the old saying goes "A lie can make it's way around the world before the truth has even put it's shoes on" GA later retracted their findings as it was found to be misleading and not based on actual figures. It was found that they made incorrect calculations when they did not have the full figure of actual live greyhounds that never went to GAP nor were reported deceased. The figure was later changed to a lower percentage of deaths per year, I can't remember what it was but it was approx 10% on average per year that didn't survive including those pups in a litter that died of diseases, illnesses, killed by their dams, etc Based on industry breeding figures, it's impossible to kill 17000 dogs in a single year. On average we need over 10,000 to race, 3000 to maintain those numbers via breeding (including sires), and the remaining 4000 would be made in GAP and private re-homing, with the exception of the now known "wastage" rate of 6.9%. Also keep in mind that breeding numbers are down by 46%, so your numbers are grossly outdated and false. See Greyhounds Australasia for confirmation. http://www.galtd.org.au/industry/australasian-statistics Injury rates are very low when you consider we have around 350,000 starters every year. So based on the public perception of 200 injuries every week, means we have an injury rate of 2.97%. But just so you know, regulators around the nation are working to bring those already impressive numbers down even further. And it's worth noting those figures include minor injuries, including minor cuts or abrasions and minor muscle strains. Visit here for more details: http://www.racingtoarespectedfuture.com.au/ Living conditions are very strict. In Victoria alone, they are bound by a government code of practice, complete with standards of living. These standards are the highest in the world, and the dogs are better cared for than most pets. In fact when you consider who cares for their dogs better, you only have to look at the rate pet dogs are going into RSPCA shelters. And only 70% make it out alive, compared to greyhound racing 93.1% that make it from the whelping box to the couch. Visit here for more details: http://agriculture.vic.gov.au/pe…/domestic-animal-businesses

Do you really think if the racing industry took out a full page ad like this, with actual facts, that the public will change their mind? Nope, the horse has bolted on that thanks to Baird and his merry band of AR followers.

The thing is, the industry in NSW was already under reform, they were already seriously addressing the issues at hand. I posted a link a few pages back about breeding restrictions and welfare reforms, I won't bother posting it again. The AR nutters are getting their way because they are hand in hand with the NSW goverment. The taxpayers of NSW, and this includes industry participants much to their warranted disgust, are funding full page ads in the Sydney papers by the Baird govt like the one attached. These have already been proved to be untrue but Baird needs to maintain the rage because he knows full well the report he has based his decision on is flawed. As my Mum used to say 'people only see what they want to see' so when the general public see these full page ads in the DT or the SMH they just think well that must be true if the government says so.

Where did this quote come from Asal? National Greyhound Racing United FB page. Posted on July 28 in response to the rally held yesterday against the carriage horses in the Melbourne CBD. https://web.facebook.com/NGRU2015/

TSD here are some key points addressed in the report. http://www.racingtoarespectedfuture.com.au/app/uploads/2016/07/NSWGreyhoundRacingIndustryAlliance-FactSheet.pdf This from GRNSW showing what had been put in place for reform in the last 12 months. http://www.grnsw.com.au/news/then-and-now--12-months-of-reform I also follow the Australian Racing Greyhound website, particularly the articles written by my vet here in Victoria Des Fegan, a leading greyhound vet in this country with decades of experience in greyhounds not only here but also in his home country of Ireland but also in the UK where he is very well respected and very missed by the UK racing industry. Des has just resigned from the AVA after their support of the ban in NSW. Of course in the comments section of this article you will see three comments by three well known anti's, none of them reside in Australia and wouldn't know him if they fell over him nor do they realise he is used regularly by greyhound rescue groups here in Victoria. He's still a "parasite" apparently O.o http://www.australianracinggreyhound.com/australian-greyhound-racing/new-south-wales-greyhound-racing/fegan-fires-off-at-the-ava-after-supporting-bairds-greyhound-ban/79645 TSD it seems you are interested in researching both sides of the arguement. There are many pro racing FB pages that are public where you can follow the facts that are unfolding, if you are interested PM me. I cannot believe that people honestly think this is not a land grab by Baird but that he has done this on compassionate reasons. If the welfare of the dogs were his priority he would've (as said by Des Fegan in the above article) fazed out racing over a number of years. There are not just the greyhounds currently racing that face an abrupt end there are pups on the ground, dogs under 12 months old at rearers and breakers, brood bitches and some that haven't even whelped yet! The over breeding of greyhounds is the major problem in racing IMO, healthy dogs being PTS should not be happening. Too many dogs bred means too many dogs dead. In the last 12 months in NSW breeding has dropped to 47%, all these figures are available to the public but no one seems to know about them, maybe they don't want to. Besides the dogs this just doesn't affect those employed directly by the industry. You have meat suppliers, delivery drivers, kennel manufacturers, kibble producers (do you know how many thousands of kilos of kibble greyhounds consume yearly?) transporters the list is endless not to mention rural communities that are crushed by this. One meat supplier in the small town of Willow Tree near Newcastle, population 160 and the biggest employer in town have said this will finish them, they will close down. Although I was born into a racing family I have been on both sides, the rescue and the racing and after what I have personally gone through with rescue and what I am watching unfold from them I stand solidly behind the good people in the greyhound industry. I've dealt with some disgusting people in racing but I have met some fantastic people as well and in my 50 years experience the good far outweigh the bad.

The poster was not made by an industry person it was in the article I posted from the Daily Telegraph. There is no point in anyone putting anything in writing to either GRNSW or the government, it falls on deaf ears as it doesn't fit the agenda. Now today the figures of wastage (48k to 68k) have been found to be grossly inflated and are aactually around 7%. It seems GRNSW have been sitting on information that they neglected to make available. Why? as yet no one knows as GRNSW have declined to comment. If you can't access this link, google 'dog deaths a fraction of report' and you should get in, I did. http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/secret-figures-claim-real-dog-wastage-fraction-of-mchugh-report/news-story/e8410a8a913ae19188bdc959064291d3

Sorry TSD I can't get back in either but here is a few of them.

Can you expand on these holes please? Well I don't know about you but the drowning of the pups in the very start of the report gave me a "what the?" moment. Pups don't even go to the breakers until around 12 months old so how do you know they are slow or non chasers? Why would anyone pay, for instance, around $4000 for a Fernando Bale straw, then the associated costs with whelping and then drown them before they even had a chance to be taught lead walking let alone being broken in. It made no sense to me and then of course we find out that this was copied and pasted from a guy named Ernie...in 2005...in the USA. What a joke. The report has so many holes in it you could strain your pasta through it. As someone said on an article I read when McHugh started backpeddling and retracting points, "this is what happens when a decision has been made and then a report is written to justify it" spot on. This article in the DT explains some of it, the barristers are still pulling it apart so there will be interesting times ahead. http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/gaping-holes-in-flawed-greyhound-report/news-story/415a3dca32b0d0959f339365dd726c48