dog_fan

I don't think they are puppy farmers, I think they are unethical ANKC breeders who do not breed for the betterment of the breed they breed purely for colour as their priority, which makes them unethical.

Relishing?????? That is your interpretation of people or a person in photo where you have not idea what was going on in their minds so it is unlikely you have guessed correctly that they are "relishing" their kill. Oh to be that psychic.

Could you please advise me how you ascertain a "suspect breeder" from an advertisement on this site? Thanks. Dogs bred for colour for one....just go look at how many blue SBT's there are advertised.

I agree dogs should not be kept in stinking conditions so I don't give a rats about what they are called they need to be closed down. Alternatively if dogs in "puppy farms" are being socialised and kept in the legally accepted conditions they should not be shut down.

No, it simply was a general question. Because Animal Liberation was the only other organisation, than the PIAA, mentioned in the OP. Txs

Something can be legal, but not the right thing to do. I explained why I have concerns with the PIAA's notions of breeding & selling puppies, in my first post And how ethical registered breeders, who behave accordingly, have been found to raise the best socialised puppies (research). That is not saying that all registered breeders DO behave accordingly. It simply says that when that system is at its best, it does best by the puppies & new owners. Not double standards.....but a range in standards. But what does the ANKC do to police it's members to ensure they are "ethical" and sticking to their code of conduct? All anyone needs to do is to look at the puppies for sale on the other part of this site to see some suspect breeders and yet they are allowed to advertise here simply because they have an ANKC prefix. There is no accountability for ANKC breeders from their governing bodies

WTF!, who are you people? and what are you doing on a "animal rescue site:?? Anyone who enjoys killing animals has NO PLACE in ANY business associated with other animals!! This is NOT an animal rescue site, it is a pure bred dog site. Who said anything about enjoying killing animals? The animals are feral and a problem and need to be managed. I think you may need to become less emotional about your subject matter if you want people to take what you say seriously.

There's a Trade Practices Act which would not allow an association such as the ANKC to enforce a ban. So it's not a case of the ANKC 'allowing' registered breeders to sell puppies in a pet shop or not. But it does not contravene that Act to have recommended guidelines on homing puppies & dogs, in terms of screening for suitability, providing follow-up advice & support etc. As many registered breeders, who provide appropriate care for their puppies & dogs, do. And, as far as I know, such a relationship between breeder & potential puppy owner is urged, ethically. So that makes it OK? Registered ANKC breeders selling to pet shops and the public are supposed to think that ANKC breeders are ethical and operating under an ethical system? I think not. No one says that it's OK. It happens to be not illegal. Because of the Trade Practices Act, an association can't state and enforce a ban. Best they can do is suggest ethical guidelines which they can't make binding. If there were another piece of legislation which said that the sale of dogs & puppies were in a different category, then the situation could be different (which has been tried & defeated. Remember Clover Moore's efforts?). Why is Animal Liberation the only group that gives a counter case in public matters like this ? Thank goodness someone does. But I'd like to see other groups commenting, from other angles. I hope I have misunderstood your post but are you suggesting I am an animal rights person because if you are you are dead wrong.

There's a Trade Practices Act which would not allow an association such as the ANKC to enforce a ban. So it's not a case of the ANKC 'allowing' registered breeders to sell puppies in a pet shop or not. But it does not contravene that Act to have recommended guidelines on homing puppies & dogs, in terms of screening for suitability, providing follow-up advice & support etc. As many registered breeders, who provide appropriate care for their puppies & dogs, do. And, as far as I know, such a relationship between breeder & potential puppy owner is urged, ethically. So that makes it OK? Registered ANKC breeders selling to pet shops and the public are supposed to think that ANKC breeders are ethical and operating under an ethical system? I think not. No one says that it's OK. It happens to be not illegal. Because of the Trade Practices Act, an association can't state and enforce a ban. Best they can do is suggest ethical guidelines which they can't make binding. If there were another piece of legislation which said that the sale of dogs & puppies were in a different category, then the situation could be different (which has been tried & defeated. Remember Clover Moore's efforts?). So if it's ok because it's not legal then how can anyone complain about legal commercial breeders? Seems a bit of double standards going on in this thread.

I do not see anything wrong with hunting or anything wrong in this photo. Maybe you need to read up on defamation law.

There's a Trade Practices Act which would not allow an association such as the ANKC to enforce a ban. So it's not a case of the ANKC 'allowing' registered breeders to sell puppies in a pet shop or not. But it does not contravene that Act to have recommended guidelines on homing puppies & dogs, in terms of screening for suitability, providing follow-up advice & support etc. As many registered breeders, who provide appropriate care for their puppies & dogs, do. And, as far as I know, such a relationship between breeder & potential puppy owner is urged, ethically. So that makes it OK? Registered ANKC breeders selling to pet shops and the public are supposed to think that ANKC breeders are ethical and operating under an ethical system? I think not.

Let's not forget that ANKC registered breeders can sell puppies to pet shops without any problems as the ANKC allows this to be acceptable behaviour.

Regardless of what people call them, if the animals are being cared for according to legal standards then they are not a puppy farm.

Paedophiles and murderers sometimes don't get this much of a punishment

Maybe you could set up a blog and out them so the unsuspecting public are made aware of all their crimes.

How about the ANKC start policing their members?

Very good point! I think this approach would help with a lot of problems that are not even directly connected to puppy farming, such as the general safety of the community. It needs a separate law that covers the breeding and sale of dogs. Like the UK has, but with a fresh approach to reflect Australian conditions (like differing State laws). What is currently in the ethical guidelines set out by DOGS Qld would be a good point of reference. And there's certainly research which would back the worth of many of those, re puppies & dogs being socialised as well as welfare generally. The unique thing about breeding & sale of dogs is that it has a 'paw' across a number of current legal areas. Like animal welfare, dog management, consumer interests, land zoning etc. The dog management aspect picks up your point about community safety. Who would police those laws? Surely not the dogs whatever state as they don't police anything that the can now.

That is a very good point. There does not appear to be many restrictions say on how many times a sow can be bred or how they can be housed even though pigs are very smart animals, some would say even smarter than dogs. So I agree dogs are not remotely seen as farm animals.

Who would police those new laws?

I prefer honesty and cannot stand the sugar coated dribble that some people like ;) The person was rude IMO - why should I have to lie to make that person feel fluffy on the inside? Because maybe something had happened to them recently that made them feel bad. You could have equally said "I don't know why they are looking like that, maybe something has happened to make them mad/sad/upset. Don't worry about them, we are having a good time" You are not making the person who heard you fluffy inside you are giving your child the option of having empathy.

I know a lot of people, male and female who have made a conscious choice not to procreate for many reasons. Your level of insensitivity is mind boggling

I recently attended a dog show and what I saw as far as GSD's went were appalling. So I say yes the dogs in PDE are representative of the breed today

This is my take on it as well. Me too

I have bred, owned, fostered, bought or otherwise been closely involved with considerably more than 40 dogs and I can assure you that there are some pups out there with behavioural issues. SOME dogs are just born "wrong" - no different to the way some people are. If the government banned Greyhound racing tomorrow, what do people here think is going to happen to the thousands of Greyhounds already alive? Same as if horse racing was banned tomorrow. Without having been there and actually having a long conversation with this woman, how can any of us judge her for having this dog PTS? How do we know what is happening in her life that would make it impossible for her to do anything but what she did? I totally agree and I have seen the same

Loved enough to be Killed you mean? Is killing a dog who cannot make you a few $$$$s anymore doing the right thing? Is killing a dog because a new baby is in the house or it digs holes or it barks or any other reason doing the right thing? People kill dogs for many reasons none are worse than the other and often pts is the only realistic option. There are worse things than dead for some dogs. If there is a dog that is barking all the time and digging holes, it means one thing, you have not given it time and training. This is not the dog's fault but your own. Really? Great to see you have all the answers and can do a behavioural assessment over the net. So what your saying is the dog was born like that, with behavioural issues? They can be :D sure. I have owned and fostered over 40 dogs, alot of puppies included, none of the puppies came to me with these issues, alot of dogs did. Big deal. I have owned dogs all my life and worked with them for decades. you clearly do not get out enough to see all types of dogs/puppies