dog_fan

for your question on why is there 6 pages of opinions, cause that is what the thread is for not one of us are in a position (that we admit to) to enact any ideas. Lots of people have an idea on why some things are the way they are. It's not just attacks it is all dog issues from attacks to irresponsible breeding eg puppy farms and BYBs, current laws, new proposals and the failure in both and so on I can't list them all in topic heading as there is not enough room so I put the 2 most serious and put AND not causing. I stated in my opening topic that I think crossbreeds cause most the attacks. Your link does look like a great solution to the attack problem, but not the bad breeding practices and the genetic component which regardless of if it is a minority reason, Some genetics does cause a higher risk then others and that crossed with bad ownership = human death. Most dog attacks don't result in serious injury let alone death this would be the example of majority environmental component. Most dogs would never set out to Kill a human, these ones that maliciously do regardless of breeding style are badly bred on the genetic component, to ignore that is a failure to those who have died and a failure to those who will be killed. In my opinion.... Dogs do nothing maliciously, they are not human and do not have human emotions.

So how do you plan to do that.......stop people breeding for aggression and stop people wanting aggressive dogs, making irresponsible people responsible, good luck with that Rubbish, unprovoked aggression is in the breeding, the genetics of the dog, until people accept this, there is not much hope of improvement really I can take the best bred dog with a great temperament and make it into a fear biter or an aggressive dog simply by managing it poorly and treating it badly. Breeding is not the cause of dog attacks the causes can be lack of awareness of the species and their needs, lack of proper management, a propensity for dog owners to think they are above the law, a lack of common sense etc. I watch every single day dog owners walking the streets with dogs who are unleashed, who do not pick up the crap of their dogs, who leave their dogs untethered outside shops, who let their dogs wander and who really have the attitude that their dog is ok.....but in whose eyes are they ok? I live in Victoria where the "draconian laws" are in place which seem to have made no difference to managing dogs well. Councils need to do what they are aid to do by rate payers and that is to police their area for breaches of their laws and by-laws and to fine people who are not obeying those laws. You can laugh all you like but people must be responsible for their property, their dogs and if they are not they need to suffer the consequences which should be hefty fines. ETA I live in inner city Melbourne known more for hipsters not bogans

Really? So people who are registered breeders of working dog registries or other registries are not welcome here on this forum?

It would appear they are on about breeders who feed meat which hasn't gone through a butcher shop - where there is a risk of Hydatid but surely people who feed offal via butcher shop shouldn't have to be in a situation where offal can never be eaten - its ridiculous. they are big over medicating on worming anyway . But the proposed legislation does not make this distinction and it will be policed based on the actual wording until someone challenges it.

So let me get this straight, I can feed my dogs offal (human grade) because I have less than 3 fertile dogs BUT if I have more than 3 fertile dogs this would be banned. Where is the science or logic in that? If it really was about the dogs and based on science then the feeding of offal would be banned for ALL dogs. Try telling my dogs that they should keep their chicken frame in their bowl whilst they delicately eat it. What a joke this proposed legislation is.

If you currently feed your dog a balanced raw diet under these proposed laws you will not be allowed to do so as offal is banned? So you would need to feed a commercially produced dry food to meet the dogs nutritional needs? I wonder if the people who produce commercial raw food diets have any idea that these laws are proposed. Seems that it would be anti-competitive to ban their product in Victoria. This is madness. edited to say, what if the commercially produced dry food contains offal, will this also be banned?

It doesn't matter who is listening, what matters is that any inaccurate statements are corrected for others who read this thread.

From what I have read you are very rude to anyone who doesn't share your view.

They can do very well even if they don't see stock till they leave the breeder or even later in life. Many rescues who go on to be working dogs don't see stock till introduced in foster care. I myself have Introduced adult dog to stock as well as puppies coming to me at 8 weeks who have not seen stock before. the thing to remember is that LGD are not trained, they are managed. That's good to hear. I still believe that the breeder must understand and have practical knowledge about how their breed of LSG's work stock so they can advise theie puppy buyers.

I would expect any Maremma breeder to at least have puppies bond to some livestock, even better forthem tobomd to the livestock that they will be protecting when they go to their new home. How can a LSG puppy know what it's role is if itis not exposed to any stock until it is in its new home. Additionally, if a breeder does not intimately know how Maremma work with stock how can that breeder offer any support to their puppy buyers who use them to protect stock?

Its not an organisation. Its a privately run website. If you dont like it the forum owner isnt holding a gun to your head to use it. Pretty simple. It sure is, it is a commercial site therefore telling people to leave sort of defeats the purpose of making money wouldn't ya say? Consumers will always vote with our feet, it is where the power lies. Most smart businesses look at the implications of any decision, seems to me trying to help is not wanted, well so be it. BTW one definition of an organisation is this: - the act of organizing a business or an activity related to a business; ie private or public this web site is an organisation

Yet another organisation that wants to police breeders.....soon breeders will give up breeding due to too much unnecessary interference. This policy clearly identifies this site as being an ANKC site interested in only ANKC breeders who show...so really it has become a show breeders site, all other breeders not welcome.

You're quite right - the tone was not nice and for that, I do apologise. It was an uncalled for response to your dismissive attitude to others - just because their opinion differs from yours, does not mean they don't have something of value to contribute. Are you saying a dog that works well - performing the same function (sans bears/wolves but add in wild dogs/eagles) - in Australia, rather than Italy, is not "placed into its correct context"? Of course it is your perogative to prefer one type of dog over another - fairly certain nobody said you could not. It is not however, necessary to cast aspersions on the quality of Australian dogs, or the objectives and direction of their breeders whilst you do that. I also don't understand why you have enormous faith in the international showring to discern quality animals yet doubt the same process here. I do not agree that the Maremma in Australia has become, or is in danger of becoming, a "sub-breed" and I think it's very sad that you, as a breeder, do. I find a lot that is said by this breeder to be concerning, and to think this is a public forum where anyone can see these responses. I just hope anyone wanting information about Maremma do not take this breeders opinion as a reliable source.

Well hers havent, they are all safely rehomed, its just her that misses them. the council had approved the 20 and had been quite happy with that for the past 20 years.She had not done anything wrong or differntly. the ex stirred up trouble, there was a new ranger (with a nasty attitude) who came out instead of the one who has been the normal one to do the inspections was on holiday that week. The point IS. the law already in force is what the new ranger used as the power to change the already approved permission to keep the dogs she did have. So what greater ones will be available for those who decide they dont like someone? She said the ranger who usaully came out did try to get the new ranger to reconsider. The complaint lodged to the deptartment of housing is an interesting outcome which I doubt many dog owners are aware of. That they can increase the rental if you breed a litter and you must (apparently) advise them when you do. Considering the breed produces a 'litter' of one to three pups, thats a considerable difference to the 'litter' of most breeds of 4 to 10 or a friends golden retriver 16 in each of her three litters. A considerable difference in potential income from one 'litter'. I just remembered a conversation with our local ranger, told me that because of the conditions that have to be met now,and the much smaller blocks now compared to those in the old suburbs, that the majority of people in the surburban areas will not be granted a licence today. The lucky ones are those who had applied and been granted before the new rules came in. That conversation took place nearly 9 years ago, so probably be even more so now? Maybe the day is comming if you did want a litter the city is not the place to contemplate it?

I thought that breeders needed to get development approval if they wanted to breed dogs. Also it is crazy to have 20 dogs in public housing in a residential area. If this was lawful why did the dogs have to be rehomed? Seems to me that if breeding dogs itis the breeders job to know what the rules are and to comply with them, especially if they are saying their dogs are their priority. If people don't comply with the laws it is the dogs that suffer.

Why does it seem so many breeders are putting themselves and their dogs at risk by not getting the correct approvals. Seems to me that they will be the first to be targetted if licensing comes in. How will they be able to apply for a license if they do not have the correct council approval? Seems to me they need to get these aprovals asap regardless of any new licensing.

If you can't see the point when you look at those dogs then why are you in here? Do you have Maremmas, yourself ? Wow...if this is an abassador for the breed then this breed is in trouble

If I was a member of a club where an official, without giving any proof, accused members (including me) of behaving not only illegally but cruelly I would be furious. That is what this official has done. He has smeared the reputation of ALL breeders who are his members and whose interests he is supposed to be looking after. What a joke the kennel clubs have become.

I am so sorry for your loss. I just cannot believe that the people we entrust our family members to can be so negligent. I have been discussing this with a friend of mine and she said she is a member of the MDBA and told me that they have a screening process before professionals can become members and that they do random checks. She said that all complaints are investigated. Maybe this would be a way to differentiate the good from the bad?

In this day and age this is unforgivable

I have heard it is very difficult to get them taken down so would like to see it happen as it will be great for everyone else subjected to hate pages about them.

what does this mean. hate groups that are against the RSPCA are being charged?

Agreed. If they don't take in all dogs that they have bred if needed then they are a puppy farmer, but if they do and they are caught they are a hoarder. What is "the right thing" when it comes to dogs? Is it really only what we want as humans? Do we care any more than what makes us feel warm and fuzzy? Do we really care about the dogs or only about our righteous indignation when a breeder gets it wrong?

I blame the controlling bodies for not investigating complaints and not kicking out breeders who don't stick to their code of conduct

thank you, yes I saw the parents papers or papers I believed to be for the parents it wasn't until she'd been here awhile that we started thinking, she wasn't purebred (vet confirmed this down the track) but by then she was our dog and we loved her regardless. No nothing arrived when I tried to check with the breeder in case they sort of got"lost in the mail" they didn't respond to calls / texts / emails. even drove there once but no one answered the door. Yes, but did you ring Dogs Queensland and ask if these people were current members. Did you ask to see their current membership card ?. Did you go to dog shows and speak to other breeders to ascertain that these people were regular breeders ?. ease up, how would they know they were supposed to do all that? Easy they go on list and forums for dogs and ask. They seem to know where to go to if they have found a problem and they sure complain about us. :) Wow that attitude doesn't help. Talk about blaming the victim.