wiseguy

If stats don't mean anything, why do you apparently put so much credence in them? You introduce them into the discussion whenever it suits you. That's hypocritical. (your favourite word). A blowin is anyone who arrives after the event & then proceeds to give advice &/or opinions about a subject they don't have a complete knowledge of. Nothing to do with residency. To understand the end one has to have knowledge of the begining. My concerns haven't changed. Neither has my direction. Misrepresentation is the issue that most disgusts me. Lies, damn lies & STATISTICS. Thank you Mr B.D. It was blatant misrepresentation that prompted me to comment. ''Misrepresentation'' being a polite alternative btw. Misrepresentation of breed i.ds. & the facts concerning the implementation of the BSL. You are obviously on the opposite side of the fence where truth & honesty is treated with distain. The end does not justify the needs. btw, Australians are a unique creatures. One isn't guranteed this blessing with a piece of paper. Being Australian & being an Australian citizen are not the same thing.

If the evidence is correct, it appear this man was prepared to sacrifice someone elses dog to save his own. Eights months in gaol is not enough.

Australia doesn't have a Bill of Rights as such. Everyone is entitled to their day in court under the Westminister system though. We are a democracy. Bring your money with you.

Agree, the half that neither own nor appreciate bull breeds. Every breed has owners one wishes had have picked another hobby. Do you know or know of the guy who flogs his Amstaff before he goes in the ring? His''preparation'' A wonderful advertisement for the breed. rep628, You certainly have a long way to go before understanding the Australian pysche. Australians appreciate well given advice. Accept it with relish. It's those that insist ramming their p.o.v down our throats that get short shift. Something for you to remember in the future. Blowins acting like flawed drama critics reviewing a play they have missed by listening to chatter of those that didn't as they were leaving the theatre don't have any credibility. Something else you need to consider. Your piece about the Ontario ''plan'' is exactly what I have been saying. In most places, Ontario being an exception btw, people power has been the catalyst to the introduction of BSLs. Those people need to won over. Lies, damn lies & statistics is not the way. Honesty is. Juliar is doomed. She won't see out the term as PM. Australians wont cosset blatent liars. Besides she wasn't elected, she was appointed by the real leader of the government, Bob Brown. Stupid people have the right to vote as well as owning bull breeds you see.

Ok guess you weren't up to the challenge, guess you never will be. Anyway while you wallow in self "pitty" I'll help the people who're keen on "moving forward" (sorry Julia). I was in the UK when BSL played out there so I am well versed in it's effects, the victims etc.. so there goes that argument. Re-read my previous post and try again, if you fail, get back on that keyboard and try again, because i know you can write a nice post. Don't patronise me. You are railing against an outcome without knowing the circumstances that brought it to be. You aren't helping anyone by being in denial & spinning falsehoods, playing to the crowd. Get out of the way & let the honest people trying to work through this with sensible, rational & open methods be. Freddy the Fib has no place in the process. You are only a nuisance. BTW. Why was the BSL introduced into the UK & various other places on the the globe at all? Do you think it is a conspirasy without justification? That the people who have demanded it are just spiteful neville nobodies? Do you think the the stories of the dog being unsuitable to be in the general population is a vicious rumour started by all those who were mauled by one? Or did various legislators suddenly declare ''Hey, we have some time to fill in, let's ban a dog breed, put some names in a hat & we will draw one out'' That BSL doesn't work doesn't alter the reasons it was introduced. The road to failure is paved with good intentions. BTW2 How could 12 APBTs appear in your stats when nobody in the country can i.d. them? So much for your stats.

Puhleeeease, What a pathetic reply, "Don't bring up all they bad stuff the pitties did to in reply to my denial''. Hypocrite, It is obvious you weren't even in the country while this tragic drama played out. It is obvious you weren't here when it seemed like every other day some innocent was chewed up by a pitbull. It is obvious you weren't here when citizens buttonedholed their pollies demanding something be done. It is obvious you don't comprehend that Joe Public not only demanded the BSL, he fully supports it because of the contempt for those JPs displayed by the pitty mob It is obvious you have no idea of the circumstances that instigated the BSL in this country. Or any other country forr that matter. It is obvious you don't comprehend that people, the victims, demanded the BSL. It is obvious you support the misrepresentation of one ''breed'' to the detriment of others. It is obvious truth, facts & playing fair are not on you agenda. It is obvious ''we'' still need to watch our back. For what it's worth, I have watched this drama unfold since the '80s when the pitbull first hit the headlines here as the meanest, fightingest dog on the planet! Myth upon myth upon myth. Puppies were selling for $10,000+ Redneck heaven. There wasn't enough puppies to go around. It is obvious you weren't here then! It was always a bomb with a wet wick. Well, the wick finally burnt down, BOOM, the breed self destructed. The pitty people could have snuffed out the wick at any time. They preferred to revel in the bad ass image. The rest, as they say, is history.

Hypocrite? I thought my opinions were quite obvious, I don't offer sychophantic answers while harbouring contrary ideas. Tell it like it is. Whether you agree or not. I played no part in the ''tarnishing'' of a ''breed''. That was completely self inflicted. What you & your pitbull cronies fail to realise is that rules/ laws apply to everyone, not just those that agree with them If your pitbull buddies had have complied with the initial rules set down they wouldn't be ''tarnished'' & reviled at all. They wouldn't have to suffer the BSL. They were to arrogant & ignorant to take the tip. Now they have to pay the piper. They had their chances, they didn't take them. I don't know how long you have been in the country, but there were horrific incidents involving ''pitbulls'' &, for the most part, children. Two examples. A little tacker walking home from school with his sister was attacked & mauled by a pitbull that jumped from the window of a dwelling & attacked him in front of mother. The dog was obviously out of its pen (if it had one) & should have been muzzled. (law) A little girl was scalped by a pitbull when she approach a neighbours front door selling raffle tickets for her school. The owner opned the door, the dog attacked. She had her scalp peeled from her forehead backwards toward the nape. The reaction of people like you? Blame the parents. what sad people, really sad. The tactic to take the heat off their ''breed''? Your pitbull people then denied their ''beloved'' ''breed'' & began calling them SBTs, xSBTs. Judas' I didn't ''tarnish the breed, you & yours did an admirable job of that all by yourselves. The latest stratagem of course is, ''no one in the country can positvely ID a pit bull''. Pathetic. And so ''the tarnish '' spreads. ''We'', despite your worst intentions, are endveavouring to prevent it spreading to ''Us''. Hypocrite? Look in the mirror.

It says approximately 18-19 inches. Not "any size you like" or " 18-19 but its ok if you go 24-25"? I do not see any open endedness here. And just to be sure "approximate" means "fairly accurate but not totally precise". So yep, you can go a little bit bigger or smaller, but it is not open license for any size you like. A quick scan through all the terrier group standards and a lot of them say "approximately" or "about" in reference to size. Yet I dont see any other breed being bred so far from standard as the AST. As to the APBT size differences, I have no opinion except to say that's really just ludicrous. I agree with you. Pure breeds are under threat from without & within. Just stay true to your breed. That's the ethical way. The SBT standard was amended in 1987 when ''desirable'' was added to the height description. It went from - 14''-16'' to ''Desirable'' height, 14''-16'' Ethical here breeders still consider 14''-16'' to be the genuine breed description & breed to it. But hey, ''desirable'' is a vehicle for altering the breed. Which is happening in the UK for example. ''Ludicrous' 'is an opinion btw

When one of the tactics of the anti-BSL lobby was to offer governments statistics claiming that other dog breeds were more dangerous, is it any wonder they stood on their own? I disagreed with those tactics and many others employed. None of them worked but they kept flogging deceased equines all over the country. I have a very open mind and live in the one place in Australia where its still legal to own an APBT without restriction. I"ll fight to keep it that way but not using the tactics of old. Absolutely! Take the B.S. out of the anti BSL fight. Get people onside instead of offside. It is the only way to be successful. Wiseguy, it's funny you agree with this (which i do too), yet in another of your posts you said that if an SBT or cross attacks a person then it is a pitbull!! your reasoning being it could never be a pure bred SBT that would attack a human. Therefore you're doing exactly what it is here that you're deploring hypocrite. Show me where? Never, ever have I said such a thing. I have not even thought such rubbish. You should get your facts straight before you accuse anyone of being a hypocrite. More uninformed drivel. Will it ever end? Wiseguy, 24th Feb 2011 BSL forum, page 9 of Hon. D. Boyle Kill amstaffs thread.. I quote. "If the incident involves another dog, I'm sorry the owner didn't keep his stafford under control. If the incident involves a person, I am sorry again the stafford is copping the blame for the deeds of some bogans pitbull". So if a dog attacks a person that looks like a SBT, your words imply it isn't a SBT but a pitbull...? Your words not mine. Please explain if this isn't what you mean. So you did say it, my facts are straight, and IMO you were being hypocritical. Time after time I'm saying I'll help you and SBT's just post something positive like a solution that we can all get on board with, instead of bloody whinging. Quite simple really. I thought anyone with reasonable powers of comprehension would have known. The SBT victims of these oft reported misrepresentation would have in any case. Perhaps I have over estimated you? If a reported participant in a dog on dog incident is SBT, I accept the charge could quite possibly be correct. Staffords can certainly be dog aggressive. there is not a SBT owner who would deny that. In the case of anattack incident involving a human, show me the money? I will bet London to a brick on it isn't a pure breed SBT. Staffords, real ones, don't randomly attack people. Anyone who genuinely knows the breed would attest to that. It's just another bogan protecting his sorry ass. As is inevitably the case when the truth be known. Kapish? Recent tragedy in the UK, headline screamed ''SBT kills Grandchild'' Why did the SBT cop the rap? Because that is what the owners told the press. when the truth was known it was the poor little girls uncles ILLEGAL pitbull. What do you call them over there? chavs? A little kid pays the ultimate price for a morons fantasy. But the lowlifes initial claim? Was Of course. ''He's a Staffordshire Bull Terrier''. That is crap we have to put up with time after time. And we have had enough. '' and the good lord above created the world in 7 days..!!!'' 6 days geo. He rested on the seventh. Wrong again pardner!

When one of the tactics of the anti-BSL lobby was to offer governments statistics claiming that other dog breeds were more dangerous, is it any wonder they stood on their own? I disagreed with those tactics and many others employed. None of them worked but they kept flogging deceased equines all over the country. I have a very open mind and live in the one place in Australia where its still legal to own an APBT without restriction. I"ll fight to keep it that way but not using the tactics of old. Absolutely! Take the B.S. out of the anti BSL fight. Get people onside instead of offside. It is the only way to be successful. Wiseguy, it's funny you agree with this (which i do too), yet in another of your posts you said that if an SBT or cross attacks a person then it is a pitbull!! your reasoning being it could never be a pure bred SBT that would attack a human. Therefore you're doing exactly what it is here that you're deploring hypocrite. Show me where? Never, ever have I said such a thing. I have not even thought such rubbish. You should get your facts straight before you accuse anyone of being a hypocrite. More uninformed drivel. Will it ever end? EDIT. To those who came in late. BSL was not a sudden event. It was the final act of a long playing trilogy. Pitbull owners in NSW had their chances to avoid the spectre of BSL. They ignored the warnings. Then they became the targets of the volatile mix of a fed up, irate public & a politician trying to deflect heat from his lame duck administration. They gave Bob Carr a chance to appear like he was doing something, & he took it. After ignoring the chance to retain their dogs, to continue breeding, selling, trading for the sake of proper confinement & muzzles in public they were left screaming their tits off when the hammer fell. You can't really feel a lot of sympathy for people who spit in your eye.

[quote My current boy is 19 inches on the dot. There are plenty that are definitely far bigger. For me, any difference of more than 10% is too much. Regardless of breed. What is the judge supposed to do with open ended standards? Bull Terriers are same. No gazetted height or weight limits. At least the AST standard does stipulate a ''preferable'' height with proportional weight. Judges should at least start at ''preferable'' & work from there. ''Preferable'' doesn't necessary guarentee success of course. There are many other features to consider. So what to think about the UKC APBT standard with 100% differential in the weight? Sorry, couldn't resist the opening.

When one of the tactics of the anti-BSL lobby was to offer governments statistics claiming that other dog breeds were more dangerous, is it any wonder they stood on their own? I disagreed with those tactics and many others employed. None of them worked but they kept flogging deceased equines all over the country. I have a very open mind and live in the one place in Australia where its still legal to own an APBT without restriction. I"ll fight to keep it that way but not using the tactics of old. Absolutely! Take the B.S. out of the anti BSL fight. Get people onside instead of offside. It is the only way to be successful.

Have i said anything to the contrary? I did ask you to read rep628's earlier post on this, to which i agree. Funny that as mentioned by rep628 working GSD's in Germany are the only GSD's worth breeding, same breed as their show counterparts but very different. Though i do believe that many AST's (AKNC) would be more than capable of earning working dog titles, not just agility. It's funny cause i thought you were of the opinion that the AST is it's own breed, so far removed from the APBT that it should be recognised as it's own breed and not subject to BSL, (which it shouldn't be, same as the APBT shouldn't). yet you call it the true APBT (how can it be if it hasn't been worked for 75 years) In that case.. should anyone calling their dog true APBT only have the right to do so if they're game bred fighting dogs from old fighting blood lines? which would mean that there are very few about and that all of our APBT's are in fact AST's ?as they've been bred for family pets, show dogs, shutzhund etc.. Yet you flamed Kylie Chivers for bringing the good name of the AST down by saying it was the same breed as APBT, yet you believe her!! and are saying so publicly therefore further denigrating the AST in your own words! pot this is kettle, are you black? why no sir i'm a very very dark shade of grey mixed with black that in the eyes of many i look completely black but i don't believe it.. The portions of rep628s posts that I am cognisant with are not a proper representation of the truth. IMO. Similarly, with your continued distortions of what I have posted, I can only suspect they are merely further nefarious attempts to distort the truth for some sort of a illconceived agenda that I can't fathom? Çhivers case?, better if read what was actually said. Which has scant resemblance to what you have just claimed. Also I would much prefer if you are to quote me at all, at least have the good grace to quote in the entirety &/or in context. Your dishonesty is shameful. Until you embrace facts rather than fallacy you will remain part of the problem, not the solution. If the ANKC registered GSDs are so bad as to be discounted as working dogs I wonder why the Police & rescue organisations only accept ANKC registered GSD puppies from ANKC member breeders? How would you ever get the opinion I thought the AST & APBT were seperate breeds? Just another example of your duplicity. You should try honesty for a change, it doesn't hurt. I can attest to that.

Forgot to answer this little gem. Many thanks geo To quote geo "Funny how the AKC wont recognise them as a pure breed, but had opened it's stud books to them. As for your last comment i do find that extraordinary, most likely tit for tat." You sir (or madam), Proves they are the same breed. Amen. Gene pool expansion. Nothing untoward there. I don't know the criterior involved, but I would imagine it was very selective, very very selective, certainly not open slather, any old dog will do.

rep628 I can't be bothered answering your entire waffle point by point. However. I have attended dogs shows in Nth America, in both Canada & the USA. I have chatted to owners/exhibitors of Staffordshire Bull Terriers, which people should remember are a minority breed there, & contrary to your rave, the examples I saw & quickly went over, were generally not of a comparable quality to their Australian counterparts. I was disappointed with some aspects of the breed in the UK as well. Contrary to your misinformation, the Nth American dogs were invariably taller & coarser than the average dogs of show quality seen in Australia. Australia is on top of the game regarding the SBT. Par excellence I did not get to see any APBTs, they aren't exhibited at CKC & AKC sanctioned championship shows. Not being registered pure breeds. Not even in their country of origin. Which is food for thought. Regarding the AST. Their standard states height of 18''-19'' is PREFERABLE, not compulsory, weight to be proportional. So your story of a 22'' dog, while not preferable was still acceptable by the standard, really has no relevence to the discussion. You did the right thing by neutering him btw. More power to you. Always strive for ideal. My participation in this fib fest isn't about breeds, good, bad or indifferent, not even the APBT, it is about the amount of misinformation, half truths & just plain lies constantly being disseminated. You are a player in that dissemination.. edit. ''you Sir Wiseguy should spend more time fighting a good cause and less running away from the problem that is BSL.'' ''We'' have our hands full protecting our breeds against people like you geo, people just like you, whose strategy is based solely on deceipt, & without even so much as a blush. ''You'' are the initial threat the bull breeds need to repel geo, you. There is not much chance of victory fighting with your head down pointing at your neighbour.

Been there, Done that. Can't really say I have seen many I would state were ''far bigger'' than the preferable 18''-19''. Repeat preferable You sound disgruntled? How tall are yours btw?

I haven't been a member long enough to read anything that was ''all over the forum''. I did read a recent post which indicated the Qld government was formulating new legislation relating to dog laws & the poster was very apprehensive as to the content. Really concerned in fact. That you are blaming the ANKC for being compliant with the Qld government in this tragedy is typical of the deceipt & misinformation I deplore. You are typical of the genre. Dodge all responsibility, blame anyone & everyone. Doesn't matter who. Shift the blame at any cost. That really is disgusting. You should be ashamed of yourself. That no one can positively identify a ''pitbull'' would only seem to demonstrate they couldn't possibly be pure breeds. Seems strange these same people can ''positively'' i.d. a Staffordshire Bull Terrier in the mix though. Or that one isn't a ''pitbull'' but an Amstaff. How would they know that if they don't know what a pitbull looks like in the first place. Deary, deary me. Oh what a tangled web we weave....... It would appear the Chivers judgement hasn't been appealed or overturned (?) Which would mean it is still on the books, a precedent. Just festering away. Waiting, waiting. I would hope the GCCC is truly showing common sense & applying deed not breed to their apparently new found M.O. & not biding their time for a new legislation to be gazetted. I also hope the ''we don't if it's a pitbull'' owners don't relax & let themselves be compromised by thinking all is forgiven. Heres a plan. If there isn't anyone who can identfy pitbulls, they could at least employ ACOs who can identify SBTs & ASTs. Because if they can genuinely i.d. those breeds, they can also exonerate them. Remembering of course that Xbreeds aren't pure breeds & should not be identified as such. So, by the process of elimination.....

Am Staff comes from the APBT, yet the Am Staff Is the real Pit Bull :D :D Me thinks someones got one too many pink elephants floating around In his head! Another red herring. The American Staffordshire Terrier is the APBT. It isn't a product of it. A name change & bona fide standard was necessary to enable it to be accepted onto the AKC pure breed registry.. An act of love, an act of breed preservation. Job done. Although its situation is looking decidedly shaky the more the APBT is put under scrutiny. G.B. has declared them to be APBTs, the Queensland judiciary has declared them to be the same breed, Ontario Canada has declared them to be the same (along with the SBT I hasten to add) Banned the three of them. A hypothetical for you, assuming you have a genuine passion for pure breeds in general, Rottweilers in particular. Would you really consider 40lb Rottweilers types, pure bred, to be the same breed as 100lb Rottweilers types, also pure bred, simply because a privately owned company without pure breed registry accreditation said they were? I am not saying APBT are not pure breeds. Many are. Every different type & style of them. It's the figuring out which one is the genuine APBT that is problem. Is it the 35 pounders or the 60+ pounders? The AST maybe? Now there's a thought. They are not declared the same breed In QLD, hence If they were they would be Included In the restriction list don't you think! That's what all the fuss was about, how they are not the same breed wasn't It? I know they are one and the same In some countries o/seas, but I am not going to debate that as I have formed my own opinion to It as have many others So what I don't understand Is you say the real APBT Is the Am Staff, but yet I'm betting you were one of the ones screaming for blood and blaming the APBT for putting the Am Staff In the recent QLD dilema You want It to be known who the real APBT Is, but yet you don't want them on the BSL list, how hypocritical Is that A bit like wanting the glory but not paying the price! As for your Rottweiler eg, well here's one for you, how different does the GSD show dog look compared to It's working dog? Here's another one for you the APBT has records of dogs linage etc dating back to the late 1700's, how much purer do you need or want! FACT: Pit bulls are actually one of the oldest and certainly one of the purest. Written pit bull pedigrees date into the late 1700's, something very few other breeds can boast of. Pit bulls have been a registered breed longer than most AKC breeds have been in existence. Louis Colby's father, John Colby, gave his son a handwritten pedigree of Colby's Blind Jack, an animal born in 1932. The pedigree stretches back more than 50 years, naming, in Louis Colby's words, "the best fighting dogs in England and America in the past fifty years." In the mid 1880's, the breed was already old. Please note that I have no malace towards the Am Staff In saying what I have said, just defending my breed like any other ETA: more Info 1) As far as I am aware the Chivers V GCCC verdict has not been overturned. (?) 2) I don't want a bsl in any form. Silly statement. 3) GSD are not the only dogs to pay a price for people breeding to an opinion rather than the standard. That started in the USA as well btw. Brachycelphalic are also victims of flawed opinion breeding. Measure are at hand to remedy this disgrace. Can't say the same regarding the flawed breeding of the APBT though. 4) Colby wasn't the only person to hold APBTs & as the AKC is the only legitimate pure breed register for the USA registered pure breeds can't predate it's inception. The AKC doesn't reconise the APBT as a pure breed in any case. The AKC was raised prior to the UKC so I can't where these so called pure breeds would have been registered. Point dismissed as another pitty fable. 5) I understand you wanting to protect your breed. I am on your side believe it or not. Lies, deception & misrepresentation is a pretty ordinary way to try & achieve it though. Chivers went that route through the legal system & lost. By her own presented evidence ffs. Dumb, dumb, dumb. Now a legal precedent has been set. She has sown the seeds for a bull breeds holocaust. Hope it doesn't come to pass for it does it will be brutal. ANKC papers will be proof of guilt, not proof of breed.

There are some great amstaff breeders on this site, keeping them true to type and to standard, but you can't deny the fact that there is a growing trend that bigger is better and it's ruining the breed from within your precious registry, and what is the AKNC doing about it? hmmmmm? ponder that for me? Absolutely, there are plenty of ''great'' Amstaff breeders, as there are of every other recognised, registered pure breeds. These are the breeders I carefully & deliberately designate as ''ETHICAL" breeders. Ethical breeders are the future of the pure breed dog. Also, if you actually took the time to aquaint yourself with the AST standard you would know there is no height or weight stipulation other than 18''-19'' being preferable, weight is a proportional to height, & this, when applied to the entire breed description paints a word picture an athletic, agile dog, approx 18''-19'' to the withers. Certainly more definative than 35lb-60lb+, height what ever, dog not to be to heavy or to rangy. what ever that is? I haven't ever seen any ASTs that look as you have described Them. We obviously move in different circles, I really only ever see the ethically bred types, whose owners are proud enough to exhibit them before their peers while having them judged against a bona fide standard. Handsome dogs. They could probably even accomplish a reasonable weight pull if their owners were so inclined. Good breeding doesn't automatically disqualify a dog from performance, as you seem to image. It would enhance it if anything. BTW, another little aside foryou to ponder. There is a member of a bull breed specific site that claims his AKC registered STB is the champion weight pull dog. Claims it outpulls the pitties. I am skeptical, but that is his claim. It isn't ''my'' registry either, however, I am a registered breeder, & all my dogs are on ''our'' internationally accredited registry, as are any I produce, in accordance with our CoE, which I do take very seriously.

Agree. BTW, they are OCCY straps

Am Staff comes from the APBT, yet the Am Staff Is the real Pit Bull Me thinks someones got one too many pink elephants floating around In his head! Another red herring. The American Staffordshire Terrier is the APBT. It isn't a product of it. A name change & bona fide standard was necessary to enable it to be accepted onto the AKC pure breed registry.. An act of love, an act of breed preservation. Job done. Although its situation is looking decidedly shaky the more the APBT is put under scrutiny. G.B. has declared them to be APBTs, the Queensland judiciary has declared them to be the same breed, Ontario Canada has declared them to be the same (along with the SBT I hasten to add) Banned the three of them. A hypothetical for you, assuming you have a genuine passion for pure breeds in general, Rottweilers in particular. Would you really consider 40lb Rottweilers types, pure bred, to be the same breed as 100lb Rottweilers types, also pure bred, simply because a privately owned company without pure breed registry accreditation said they were? I am not saying APBT are not pure breeds. Many are. Every different type & style of them. It's the figuring out which one is the genuine APBT that is problem. Is it the 35 pounders or the 60+ pounders? The AST maybe? Now there's a thought.

shit zu is the king.

You obviously either don't read all the posts or you are very selective about which bits you choose to comment on. Actually that is patently obvious. I have said there is no doubt there are pure bred APBTs, there is no denying that, the problem being is that different regions have different opinions about what the ''true'' APBT is & what it looks like. Too much variety to be taken seriously as all being ''pure breeds'' of the same breed. Even you have made mention of the anomalies in the ''breed''. Genuine, ethically bred, registered pure breeds are easily recognisable regardless of what COUNTRY they are bred in. APBTs vary from city to city, suburb to suburb depending on the opinion of the people who are breeding them. And that, my man, is why they were not, & more than likely never will be, recognised as a bona fide pure breed by any legitmate pure breed registry on this earth. Or any other earth for that matter. And please don't insult my intelligence by trotting out the usual petulant nonsense about ''we don't care'', ''ours are performance registers'' et al, etc, etc, waffle, waffle. Any genuine, ethical breeder of recognised, registered pure breeds loves to have their ''work'' displayed at sanctioned championship shows, & especially if they can qualify for prestigious events such as westminister or crufts, the holy grails of the pure breed world & genuine, ethical APBT breeders would be no different if given the chance. They would jump at it if it was offered to them BTW, about 6-8 (?) years ago, the top agility dog in the USA, as in numero uno, was an AKC registered SBT bitch. A little white girl, a dead ringer for my old girl reggie in fact, God rest her soul It would be an interesting if the APBTs were given the chance at AKC registration though. If all the factions could agree on an acceptable standard & then if they passed the required criterium , & were admitted on the AKC pure breed register, how many so called APBTs of today would be looking for a new identity tomorrow do you think?

Why is that extraordinary? Wouldn't you make a stand? Why ban the breed that bred the breed but not the breed bred from the breed? The breed that bred the breed? Almost correct. But not quite. Which, however, does makes them the same breed, yes? Of course it does. Or more to the point, one is pure. So why ban the branch of the family that has been faithfully bred to a standard for 75 years, the true APBT, as opposed to a type that no one can agree what the hell it is suppose to look like? Now let's all dance around the elephant in the room one more time.

Staffy. All xbreeds are staffies.