cybergenesis

If it was a pitbull, the only reason one would be involved is because they are popular among irresponsible people (of course there are some good people that own them too). I mean, I honestly believe BOTH my dogs are capable of mauling a child, especially now my Labrador. If a child came on this property, my dogs would likely attack. However, I am very responsible, and manage my dogs very carefully, ie, its not going to happen. Based on BSL logic, I think all dogs should be banned, indeed cars, airplanes, electricity, baths should also be banned. I love the nanny state!

Not true. My dog bit me (and it was a fairly nasty bite), and I saw a doctor and there was no report made. I had to see multiple doctors because it was badly infected.

My dogs would tear their police dog to pieces if it came on my property as well. The police can raid your house if some anonymous person makes up a lie that you have drugs there or if they "think" they smell weed. Its pathetic and good on that guy for having dogs that protected his property. I'm not saying he wasn't dumb though but the police should think before they act, not checking for other dogs before bringing a police dog onto a property? Well the dog copped it lol

I know this is bad but I just can't bring myself to care about a police dog that was injured invading someones personal home... Tough luck, that's life.

Your probably right about the food guarding issue. I just deal with it by putting it outside, away from others. He used to be owned by rough teenagers who used to tease him and take away his food (as well as rough him up a great deal), so that's where he got the issue from. He used to be quite wild, but he has calmed down incredibly except with the food guarding and injury protection. Besides that he is very used to people, but I wouldn't recommend him to a home with *young* children. Older, educated children should be fine. I will mention all this to the behaviorist. I will be pretty busy over the next few days but I will get back here eventually and update this thread in the hopes the information the expert provides may be useful to others in the future.

Ok I think some peoples responses here are a little emotive, but I have also received some pretty good advice here too. Initially the fights were occasionally, once I realized it was totally out of control- the dogs were separated. Each time they thought they received medical attention. Obviously I had hoped to be able to stop the fighting, but this did not work out. In regards to getting rid of the Labrador, this has nothing to do with my love for either dog. I love the Labrador more, as I have owned him more, but I have also formed a bond with Neapolitan, and love him too. Besides the bad stuff you have heard about the Neo, he is otherwise a FANTASTIC, placid dog. He has NEVER been out of control EXCEPT immediately around the time of fighting with the other dog. My decision to get rid of the Labrador is not final, indeed I am now leaning towards keeping both dogs, but enhancing my property so that I can be absolutely certain no "accidents" will occur (the dogs getting at each other). The reason I chose the Labrador was based on dispassionate logic. The Labrador is mostly a family type dog (besides its tendency to food guard). I think it is easier to place a Labrador with a loving family than find the right sort of assertive owner for a Neapolitan, as because people may have the wrong motive for getting such a dog. Also the Labrador is TOTALLY non-aggressive to humans, except when food guarding and he doesn't like people touching his injuries. I would never give away the Labrador unless I was CERTAIN he was going to a great home, in such circumstances I don't have a major problem giving up the dog, though of course I would miss him. But as I said, I'm not leaning that way at the moment. I'll talk to Mark before deciding. One last thing for the Lab lovers, the Lab is treated BETTER than the Neo. I allow the Lab inside and he is inside most of the time, whereas the Neo stays outside the majority of the time. I treat my dogs very well, how many of you feed your dogs a diet based mostly on human grade meat? Edit: I also wanted to add why Neo's are my favorite type of dog. Believe it or not my 2nd favorite type of dogs are Labradors. Neo's are large. I am a very large man myself (125kg), I just like large dogs- I think they suit me. Neo's are generally quite lazy and placid and require minimal exercise. Indeed they like nothing more than sitting around near their owner lazing and have low energy levels. I am quite lazy myself (except when it comes to caring for my dogs), and these attributes are very appealing to me. I am a slow paced sort of person. Neo's don't bark very much: Dogs that bark excessively really get on my nerves. Indeed my Labrador barks a lot more than my Neo. I know the look is not for everyone, but I absolutely love the look of the Neo's- to me they are the most beautiful of all dogs, yes I know many other people prefer other dogs, but this is my preference. I love the unique way they walk. I love their long, wrinkled skin. I love the grunting and other funny noises that they make. I even love the fact my Neo snores loudly. I like the strong, assertive temperaments of the Neo. Also as a secondary consideration to getting a companion, I personally want a dog that is able to protect me if it is absolutely necessary. I absolutely believe if somebody attacked me aggressively my Neo would intervene, yet he is very placid around people in normal circumstances, as I make an effort to extensively socialize him with people. Many people pat him on my walks with him, and he is totally friendly. Indeed almost every walk somebody pats him. The other part of him protecting me is that he is a great deterrence, I doubt almost anybody would think of hurting me when that dog is around, he looks very powerful. You might say this is a stupid reason, but I have been a victim of a violent crime, and I live in probably the highest crime neighborhoods in my state, as well as one of the most socioeconomically disadvantaged. My Neo makes me feel very secure, but I certainly NEVER encourage aggression in my Neo, he has natural guarding instincts that do not need fueling.

Thanks for that. In regards to hitting the Neo, I realize this was not a good idea. I was in a panic because my Labrador was in serious trouble. I have read since to pull them by their back legs or tail (though this risks being bit as well). I won't be putting them back together unless there has been extensive work done with both dogs, but yeah it may not be possible.

Id second that.Mark is a good guy and has experence with a variety of dogs. Thanks for this advice you two. I'll contact Mark.

Nah I don't want to get rid of Ziggy, besides the bite, he is my ideal type of dog. If I get rid of one, it will have to be the Labrador, as I said above, due to being easier to find a home for. I am thinking of doing further upgrades to the property so there is even more protection from them getting at each other if a gate is left open etc (Could have two sets of gates etc). I have sent a few emails to some animal behavioral experts and said I am willing to pay the fee etc, I am just waiting for a response which should come within a few days. I am not just after advice, hehe sort of wanted a slight bit of sympathy :) My back is still healing weeks later, but he just got flesh, no organs or anything :) Oh also very interested in other person dog bite stories. I want to learn as much as I can about such behavior.

Hi. I have owned an adopted entire male Labrador for about 2 years now, and I love dogs so much I decided to get another one. The dog that interested me the most was the Neapolitan Mastiff (These are my *IDEAL* dogs). I didn't want a puppy at this stage, believe it or not I actually don't like puppies much, I prefer mature dogs. Well I bought an entire male Neapolitan Mastiff named Ziggy from interstate. He was 13 months old when I got him, and I have him for about 4 months now. Now before you say anything, yes I was aware of potential problems between two entire male dogs. However my Labrador is used to other dogs, and I was told the Neo was raised with several other dogs, so I thought hopefully they will get along. Well for the first 1-2 weeks they did. Then they started having vicious fights, which the Labrador always severely lost (but not in spirit- he would never back down). Various things triggered this, and I did everything in my power to stop it. Every time they got injured I would have to call the vet to get antibiotics, stitches etc. Well it got worst and worst until the last fight, in which the Neo had the labrador on the ground with a death-hold on the Labradore throat. Now note this happened as I w as running late to leave the house to go to court, I was having a VERY, VERY bad day when the fight started/ I feared the Labrador would be killed, so not knowing any way to seperate them, I attempt to use sheer force to force off the neo. I struck him several times around the head and body with maximum force in an attempt to "shock" him to let go (I am large, strong male, I weigh 125kg, so I can deliver a forceful blow). Incredibly the neo IGNORED the punches and kicks and seemed unfazed. Indeed I threw buckets of water over them, but even that wouldn't break it up. Well eventually he did let go, and since this I have kept the dogs totally separate (thankfully both my front and back yards are separate and secure areas to put the dogs separately). Now. Just after this fight, I was having A MENTAL FIT, not at the dogs, as I had put the Labrador inside. I started kicking and screaming and hitting the water tank in the backyard to let off some steam (I mean I knew this was going to cost me another couple of hundred dollars I couldn't really afford, and that i had missed court etc). Well as I was doing this, paying absolutely no attention to the mastiff, Ziggy came up from behind me and bit me on the side of my back, but I did not notice this at the time. I was so angry I did not feel the pain, but I did notice the dog was going for me, and realized he must still have adrenalin running through his system from the fight. When I went inside I realized the bite was quite bad- not extremely bad- but pretty nasty, several DEEP punctures. I had to get antibiotics, a tetanus shot and stitches. Believe it or not, my neo is a wonderful dog. And so is my Labrador. Besides the fighting and the one time I got bit, I have never had any other problems with either dog. They are outstanding. On the advice of the vet, I have now neutered both dogs. But I am just not sure about ever re-inducing them. They want to IMMEDIATELY go for each other at ANY chance, I am always worried about the small risk I will accidentally leave a gate or door open and they will get each other, but it hasn't happened yet! Has anybody got any advice? I would prefer to keep both dogs, but if I do get rid of one, it will be the Labrador, only because he would be much easier to rehome than a Neapolitan Mastiff, which is not a dog for everyone. I don't blame the Neo for biting me, but it has been a reminder experience that Neo's are serious dogs, with serious instincts and serious power. One thing I can tell everyone is to make sure your Neo knows you are the boss, I always keep my height above that of the neo and insist he obeys me before getting what he wamts. But both dogs are quite submissive to me, and definately consider me the leader. But both dogs are perhaps Alpha males, and both dogs have always considered themselves the pack leader with other dogs (I have never seen any other dog succeed in dominating either of my dogs). Well that is about all the information I can think of. Any advice from anyone would be appreciated, I am doing my best to manage this situation, but I cannot have another serious dog fight occur, it is a serious danger to both dogs, but especially the Labrador.

I have a neo. They are great dogs, very protective, but also very good companions.

Very true. They are killing the dogs pure and simple.

That's not my take on it... These laws are extremely draconian, reckless in controling your "dangerous" breed dog (even if you know its harmless), can result in 5 years prison- that's in the absence of any attack. Maybe just letting it off the leash at the beach may get you 5 years prison, no matter how well behaved and socialized the dog is. These laws are OUTRAGEOUS.

Wow that's a really informative comment... NOT. What are you talking about? What exactly doesn't seem right? I know we all like complaining about the fact pitbull and subjective "crosses" are being outlawed, but seriously nothing is going to stop it... These dogs are going to be wiped out in this country, its just a matter of time. I am just thankful that they haven't yet targeted my favorite breeds of dogs, which BTW are every bit as subjectively dangerous as pitbulls if raised inappropriately. The government loves banning stuff based on knee jerk reactions not grounded in balanced reasoning. Its not going to change any time soon. I have given up. The government will make whatever stupid laws it likes based on exaggerated media stances. What really scares me is if we get a few well publicized attacks by rottweilers, bullmastiffs and other breeds owned by irresponsible owners, then the government may massively expand the banned dogs list. Maybe they may outlaw all dogs altogether. Just because dogs have been man's oldest domesticated animal companions, going back around 20,000 years, before even cattle and livestock, hell let this know it all government ban them.

That's all well and good, but when it's YOUR OWN dog getting attacked, the reality is that most of us would do the same thing. Doesn't absolve the attacking dog and their owner of responsibility. Not me. I would grab the back legs of the attacking dog and wheelbarrow him off. Once again, easy to say. I reacted so quickly that I avoided my dog getting injured. If I'd waited until the other dog had latched on, then wheelbarrowed, I don't want to think what may have happened to my dog - both physically and mentally. Edit: I ended up with a small area of broken skin through my jeans. I'll acknowledge that you may be right. I like to think I would do the right thing in a dog attack, but thankfully I've never yet been walking my dog and had him attacked, but its something you definitely feel from experience is a possibility. Then again it would take a fairly large, vicious dog to be a threat to my dog, as he is fairly large. Larger than most the dogs I have seen around the neighborhood (but not all).

That's all well and good, but when it's YOUR OWN dog getting attacked, the reality is that most of us would do the same thing. Doesn't absolve the attacking dog and their owner of responsibility. Not me. I would grab the back legs of the attacking dog and wheelbarrow him off. I watched a video on how to break up dog fights. I am not blaming the victim here, just saying, as a dog owner, he should have had a little bit more common sense, but the onus of responsibility lies on the other dog owner.

I honestly don't think the majority of people in the community rate the impact on dog owners as any kind of priority in this issue. Of course they dont care Im just so worried this hysteria will spread to my favourite breed and they will be on the chopping block before much longer as well Next up they will ban Rottweilers, Bullmastiffs, Neapolitan Mastiffs etc.. Each of these dogs can be seriously aggressive if raised / treated inappropriately, oh wait but these are more expensive breeds, no lets blame the cheap cross breed pitbulls owned by the underclass for all dog attacks. If only they would realize its the owner not the dog. Eradicate "pitbulls" and in time another breed of dog will become the favorite for dangerous criminalistic bogan types who want "aggressive dogs".

OMG it was a Labradore!!! BAN ALL LABRADORS!!! THEY ARE TOO DANGEROUS FOR PEOPLE TO OWN!! PROTECT US MIGHTY GOVERNMENT, SAVE THE CHILDREN!!! LABRADORS ARE OBVIOUSLY KILLERS! So it sounds like this mans injuries were not severe. He got a significant bite to his arm and a scratch to his face... Anybody knows when dogs are fighting that you don't just put your arm into the middle of them... Der... On a separate note my Labrador has bitten me before once when I was drunk (not a regular occurrence) and for some stupid reason I touched his food bowl while he was eating.. He mauled my ankle multiple times within a couple of seconds, it really hurt for a few seconds, but he did not draw blood. I blame myself for the incident.

This is the point I was just about to make. I really don't think an owner should face up to 10 years in prison, if for example during a home invasion their dog seriously injures or kills an intruder while protecting its owner. Also I am afraid if the person is trespassing into a fenced area- with warning signs- I don't think the owner should be charged. However this is the only sensible thing, yes when somebody lets their blatantly abused and roughed up mongrel escape from their property and it mauls someone to death, then yes, go to prison.

I'm neither intelligent or especially rational, but I still believe I am a good dog owner. I guess a good dog owner has compassion towards their animal, and the ability to relate to the dogs point of view, as well as a dabbling of common sense.

Thankfully this has not happened to me yet. My dog is a Labrador, but a rather fearless and large male. Every time I pass another dog walking, my dog goes crazy and tries to get to the other dog. Doesn't matter how big or rough the other dog is, my dog does not hesitate to try and get to it. Luckily I am a large bloke (120kg) and have the strength to control my dog. But I am sure that sooner or later another dog is going to come running at my Labrador, I just hope its a smaller dog that can't inflict damage. I have had some close calls. One dog was very interested in my Labrador, and the gate was open to their property. However, it didn't seem to be able to figure out that it would have to back up and go around the side to get to my dog. In that case the dog is only medium sized, and more likely than not my dog would eat it for breakfast- not that I would let it come to that, but I will allow my dog to defend itself if its attacked.

Anybody read the link I provided? http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/publications/ncrc-publications/ The Pitbull Placebo is really a good read, it has a lot of info about fatal dog attacks. In most cases there are serious problems such as: Chaining the dog all the time, serious abuse of the pet, severe negligence / starvation of the animal, poor understanding of pack behavior / dog behavior, poor socialization. Not always, but in most cases there are certain underlying factors. One of the most important things for people to realize that is very young children (infants) should not be allowed around dogs because sometimes the dogs will simply kill them. Dog don't know they are your precious offspring, they see them as small animals. OH and BTW the chances of your child being killed in a fatal dog attack are less than them being struck by lightening.

I have it but its out on loan.... somewhere. I'm getting the impression that it is very popular and out of print! Here is the free .pdf of Karen Delise's book The Pitbull Placebo, a very interesting and relevant read: http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/publications/ncrc-publications/

I wouldnt get too carried away just yet.He has said he will raise it with oither states.That doesnt mean they will automatically pick it up.What they are proposing is what has been in place in WA for some time.I do admit that innocent dogs will get caught up in it just as they did in QLD.However before getting hysterical read what is written.If there dog is registered in the first place they dont have to worry and if they are cross breeds should they just be allowed to breed them anyway?There are too many dogs being bred fullstop and that is part of the problem.I am not saying just crossbreeds but if some are caught up in it and have to be sterilised is that all bad.Dogs will only be seized and destroyed if they arent registered and dont comply.They still have to prove what is and isnt. Its not the end of the world just yet. Also I think someone should educate the author of the article.American pitbull terriers and the other restricted breeds ahve been restricted in Tasmania for a number of years.Its only the Territories that they arent but that wont last forever. http://www.dpac.tas.gov.au/divisions/lgd/dog_control/restricted_breed_faqs http://www.themercury.com.au/article/2011/08/19/254351_tasmania-news.html What gets me is registered dangerous dogs must be desexed. Tough luck if your one of the minority responsible dog owners that simply prefers their dog non-desexed. All my dogs my whole life has been non-desexed- I was raised with them like this, it is simply how I prefer my male dogs. Never have my dogs ever caused an unwanted pregnancy. I've never had any problems with my dogs. I like them how they are. I don't own a "dangerous breed" at this time, but in the future I would like the possibility open to me to choose any breed of dog I wish. I do not know what my future feelings will be, but who knows whether I may want another breed of dog. It gets me that the government is assuming its the genetics of the breed which is bad, rather than understanding that surely in the vast majority of circumstances dog attacks are due to negligence, seriously inappropriate socialization of the animal or lack of socialization, and a poor understanding of dog behavior as animals. Surely the solution is to ensure quality breeding programs by reputable people for such dogs, and to increase education to the public about dogs. I mean combine this with significant penalties for inappropriate management of dogs by the public, such as allowing them to escape, or inappropriate aggressive behavior. Just how I feel the issue should be handled, without all the hysterics.

+1 Very interesting stuff... I fully agree with that approach. Had never heard of it before, thank you for informing me.