Inevitablue

I'm so sorry SF, it must be a surreal time for you. For me, its just gone past the 1 year anniversary since I was in the same position. My benchmark was when I felt he just wanted to go to sleep and for it all to go away. His was a brain tumor, so no pain involved but the confusion, and lack of dignity due to failing co ordination made him miserable. I still question if I should have tried surgery but I lean more towards that I did the right thing. He was a proud dog who hated being incapacitated. Every day was becoming torturous for him and in the end I felt more guilty being part of prolonging it than I did giving him his wings. My heart goes out to you dealing with this decision with such a young dog. Never feel guilty or judged, as you are the guardian of his happiness.

True, if it's excitable barking. I wasn't thinking about her age. The method works if it's driving away barking. +550 cable ties to go back and cut off..... I'd be drawing straws for that job!

I can see why! She is so tiny and with a yard so big she would need her own sat nav to find the back door

I suggested to a friend who had the same issue to make people along the fence something positive, not negative. So we got the help of friends for a week to randomly walk past the fence and throw a treat over the fence. No interaction, just the treat. Fixed her 2 border collie x's, they would see people and wait for a treat, instead of trying to chase them away with barking. Apart from doing aversives, that's the only way I can think of proofing the behaviour in a positive way that doesn't require you there all day to reward.

Lol, I have no idea what Pugs were fed but I'd guess their ancestors were only fed from flat bowls!

Cattle dogs.... I'd say they foraged on the testicals and tails when it was castration and mulesing time, eewwwww. On the whole they would have been fed a very meat based diet, with sick livestock not suitable for human consumption slaughtered for them.

How would you go about training a dog to not do a behaviour, particularly a dangerous behaviour that the dog has practiced for the past 2 years?

He will come when called, even if he doesn't want to because he in the past has been given options which have different outcomes. Option A- come when called and get a super reward Option B- ignore and run away and get in trouble People like Nehkbet don't practice option B more than option A, they just use either whenever appropriate and often lots of A after B. (correct me at any point) Understandably spitz are more aloof, but that's a challenge, not an excuse. Cattle dogs have a desire to nip, but I can't make excuses. Plus how do I condition not nipping? She is smart, but not that smart to recognize getting treats for free is actually for not doing a behavior, especially one which can surface when she is in an aroused state and the act of biting is in her DNA. She has to get a very clear and strong option B if she does nip. I'm not against your findings, or work. You can certainly educate many about getting even higher responses to Option A's, but ruling out implementing Option B's will not assist any trainer in correcting bad behaviour. Being all happy happy all the time is fine if that's what someone wants to do with their dog, and if the dog is bad mannered in say a group situation, or chases livestock, so they address the issue by avoiding it is their prerogative, but some owners want those issues fixed and so Option B's have to be used. What if your dog got away from you on a busy road, and with so much stimulation didn't want to recall? You will answer by saying you wouldn't let your dog get into that situation in the first place and that's what I meant by well managed vs obedient. Lol, my dog is far from obedient yet! Especially after the diva performance put on at training tonight

I have to agree, in a discussion on training that is intended to educate a novice it's important to get things right. Doing tricks is not the same as being obedient, and your quote above actually does outline a dog that is not obedient. If you don't care about obedience and enforcement then it doesn't matter, but you can't claim your methods have lead to obedient dogs because a lot of your posts tell stories that show your dogs aren't obedient. Obedience actually mean comply with the human's command at all times, not just when they choose to. Change Corvus' description to a dog that growls at children over a bone for example and it wouldn't be so easy to ignore the behaviour or make excuses for it. Not trying to catch you out Corvus, I just find it interesting to see the differences between people who train their own dogs, and the posts from people who train dogs in a commercial sense. Excuses can't be made when people expect results.

My dogs know tricks and are obedient. *worlds collide* Obedient? Or well managed? You just mentioned that you can't regularly enforce anything with one of your dogs....

You might mean the nail clippers that come with a battery operated rotating pumice stone in one handle (thats a mouthful! lol) I have one and it doesn't have the power to do the job on cattle dog nails, but on smaller nails it should work fine. Not overly noisy either, compared to the dremel...

Thanks for all the advice One suggestion made me piece back when the car sickness actually started. She had her first show at 16 weeks and just before that someone pointed out that she looked tight through the back and wasn't driving as well as normal. So I went to one chiro who looked her over and adjusted only her neck. I wasn't quite happy as the problem was between her pelvis. Off to another chiro who treated her back and she was definately moving better (infact won Baby in Show). I take her to this chiro fortnightly just to keep ontop of her back. Its all self inflicted as she plays like a maniac, even just by herself in the yard. We don't overdo her young body so it's just her back that we adjust. Anyway..... last week when I asked the question chiropractic adjustment was suggested. We were going to the chiro that night anyway and I used the Cerenia (which worked great). Wow! he had a good feel of her neck and it was out in a weird way. One week and four car rides later, varying between 30min and 1.5hrs and NO SPEW! Im still not feeding her just before travel but touch wood, fingers crossed hopefully its sorted.

A cattle dog with a softer nature - with the added bonus of no coat to catch burs, farmers friends etc. Innately snake savvy, visual deterrent to intruders, loyal to an inch of their lives, lots of drive for training but just as happy chilling on the couch, oh.. and did I mention almost zero grooming :D

i just gave her 50mg of Cerenia so hopefully all is good tonight in the car. talking about it today at work, we also thought the change at 16wo could have occured because she could see out the windows now at the moving objects.

Thanks guys for the replies. Im going to try the new tablets for times when I'm taking her to a show etc. The chiro thing is interesting, but alas she already goes to the chiro to keep her in order with all her rough and tumble antics. She is going tomorrow, so I will mention it (something I never would have thought to mention! thanks ) She still rides in the same place in the car, the only thing that has changed has been the length of journeys. When she was a pup I wouldn't drive more than 30min at a time, but now with trips to Erskine Park and Austral its over an hour. I considered anxiety, but she still gets drooly on the way home from a show etc. The only time now that she is not drooling is when she is asleep, and she never crashes after a show, just after herding. I just didnt want to be medicating her up to 3 times a week!

Does anyone have a dog that grew out of car sickness? None of my previous dogs have suffered, and this young girl was fine until she turned about 16wo. For the first month I had her she came with me in the car everyday, and now goes for about 3 car rides a week. It appears to be genuine motion sickness, because if we are on the freeway she drools a fair bit, but it's not until we leave a freeway and come to the first set of lights and stop that she vomits. Once she vomits then she is perfectly fine. I have stopped feeding her breakfast before a trip and that has eased the amount, but she still drools like crazy. I have fresh air in the car and if she is preoccupied then she also seems ok. I would rather manage the vomit than medicate her. Can I also add that she always has had positive associations with a car. So, please someone tell me that their dogs grew out of this!

Thank you! Now hopefully she maintains her undefeated run in BP of Breed :D

I have entered in my first 3-6 months sweepstakes tomorrow at the Hills District Kennel & Training Club show. Are these run like a normal class? Generally first thing in the morning? I can't find the schedule, which I know would help me Also, this is my first show at Castle Hill. Any parking tips, ring layout info ect that I might find useful? I have a cattle dog. Thanks, from a keen, already slightly hooked newbie

Weak nerve might not be a term that geneticists use, however the principals of genes determining personality traits still correlates to dog trainers using the term weak nerve. I think Joes description of weak nerve in breeding/genetics is relevant. Dogs, like humans are programmed by their genes which is then influenced by the environment. Personality is a heavily studied subject, and breeders would certainly be aware of the personalities they seem to regularly producing. Selective breeding is choosing certain personalities, as well as physical attributes and primal instincts. How Joe relates that to certain personalities of dogs requiring different motivators and aversives would be an observation from his experience. A leadership/ dominant personality is going to require stronger aversives to change their mind about taking charge. A follower/ easily intimidated personality will require different motivators to face up to something threatening. By saying weak nerve he is identifying dogs of a certain personality trait. In my observations of late at dog shows, I see certain lines of dogs that consistently have their tails clamped between their legs. This could be due to the socialization, handling and education from that kennel, but this is a breed that should be confident dogs. That's in their personality description. If Im ever looking for a stud for my girl there is no way I will risk using any of these bloodlines, as of course genetics would be playing a part in the fearful behaviour displayed. Environment and learning theories cannot be entirely responsible for behavior. Thats how I interpret the label weak nerve.

I'm the opposite, I was always attracted to the ACD's and couldn't imagine not having one. They are such a Velcro dog that I couldn't even justify to myself having ACD's plus another breed. I'm struggling with the decision to even get 2 at the moment, she is literally at my side constantly. Plus I worked out the next 4 months and it's flat out with herding comps, shows, and some tracking training..... haha double that and I'd be single quicker than you could say 'selfish' Ok.... I will admit that I'd love to work with a Malinios and have a Chi that got some obedience titles.

I sprayed the whole bike!

Spiders.... I can handle St Andrews Cross ones but any signs of fur... Staying OT, OMG try riding your bike up Lapstone Hill in the Blue Mountains to look down and see a massive, fat huntsman walking over the speedo, thank dog I had gloves on....waited until he crawled onto my glove then started flicking like crazy still doing 80km/hr in the fast lane. Heart rate would have been well over 190! I was flicking and seat dancing for almost a km then finally he lost grip. Sigh...... Heart rate drops, composure slightly returns....until His mate appears, crawling up the fork leg (the bit that runs down to the front wheel). He decides to sit inside my windscreen for the next few km until I could make it to a service station and buy 2 cans of Mortein. I had so many drivers staring at me, I must have looked like I was suffering some type of seizure.

Fully agree, that's been the theme of what I like. It's the type of questions that new puppy owners need to explore.

Kitten, while it all seems like it's a debate, there is relevance to every puppy owner. Do you chose a puppy school that allows for unchecked puppy rumbling, or one that teaches the puppy to ignore other dogs and just focus on you?

Just what concerns me Joe is that the owner of that dog now has to micromanage that dog for over a decade, making sure that a child never runs up and touches the dog on the head, keeping every offlead dog away from it, making sure the dog never needs to be handled abruptly by strangers etc etc. The dog has never been exposed to those things and therefore is an unknown quantity. Yes, no dog is 100% solid, but at least the dogs which have been correctly exposed and taught to have appropriate responses are a bit safer bet.