BlackJaq

Well, my bad if the information given wasn't correct, but it wasn't really my point to prove that it was possible to breed a bitch twice a year. My point was that I believe that any limitations are supposed to apply to people who attempt to breed without break, despite the mental and physical health of the bitch.

I can't seem to find the thread on DOL that lead me to this blog, but here is the blog anyways, with litters and names of dogs in them listed, so this should be easily verified by checking with the register the dogs are registered with? http://stoprutlandmanor.wordpress.com/2009/10/14/in-memory-of-ellie/

Agreed, I don't think death by kill shot is a bad death. If the person delivering the shot can shoot that is. A miss may cause some really horrific injuries though.

I don't think leaving the dogs in a public place with a note attached was a very sensible way of making a stand, but if roaming dogs were threatening my lifestock and owners could not be indentified or did not care to detain their dogs, I would also shoot repeat offenders (i.e. dogs, not owners lol) where it is legal. Obviously nobody wants this to happen to their pets and if it was the first time for a usually well contained dog, then that dog and owner should get a second chance, but honestly, who likes to have their animals harrassed by roaming dogs? And who would not want to protect their own animals? In my opinion those members of the community who are against the shooting of dogs that harrass other people's animals have likely never had the pleasure of having their chickens, sheep and assorted other pets killed by someone else's dogs. I believe you will find that those people who do not bother to contain their dogs either believe that many other laws also do not apply to them, or they simply don't care about their dogs enough to be bothered by the potential loss. Usually it is pointless to attempt to speak to those kind of owners, as they will make no effort to contain their dogs in the future. It is a different story for those whose dog accidentally slipped through the gate the once or got loose in similar circumstances of course.

No idea but I seem to have read a blog that was linked on here a couple of days ago where some poodle was having something like 9 litters in 4 or 5 years. I do not see how that is possible unless they managed on average two a year? I will go look for the link

Well, I don't think any limits on the amount of litters a bitch is allowed are supposed to target the responsble and ethical breeders who get their dogs health checked every time before covering etc. I think they are aimed at those people who will try to raise two litters a year from a bitch, no matter what, ignoring any health concerns or even signs from the bitch that she has had enough..

I wonder if those two dogs had breathing difficulties that may not have been too obvious to a non-vet or could only be distinguished with the use of a stethoscope? I guess at this point it is all speculation, but if the dogs did have a health problem that the judges either ignored in favor of look or could not determine due to lack of veterinary training, then in my opinion this is a great development.

Well, in those cases you can hardly call those dogs "pets", they are more yard ornaments than anything else, and most people who keep their dogs like this do not mind getting rid of a pesky, destructive yard ornament and replacing it with a new one every six months. However, I am not opposed to rehoming dogs in all circumstances, but I have kept a dog I did not feel a true bond with for over two years, until she died of a snake bite, and the dog seemed happy and I took the same care of her as any other dog, bond or no, because I felt responsible for this older dog and didn't believe she was going to find another home easily. I just think that people need to be very thoughtful about the whole process and sometimes, if the dog may be difficult to rehome due to age, health or similar factors, if it is not causing them any trouble and they can afford to keep it, some people may need to buck up and face the responsibility.

I don't think you can compare dogs and horses in this context. My horse lives in a paddock without me, for 20, sometimes 22 hours a day. My dog lives inside my house with me, travels in the car with me (if I am going somewhere she can come to) and visits friends and relatives with me. My horse spends most of his day with other horses, not people. My dog is with me almost all the time. There are more differences, and the lines get rather blurry when it comes to work and such, but how many people realistically need or want their dog to do a job? Most horses have a job and many people would not own a horse if they didn't ride or drive it... I also feel that a dog is a lifetime commitment and wouldn't feel comfortable "selling it like a horse" (then again, I probably wouldn't sell my horses either, except for very special circumstances). In my opinion, even an older horse, so long as it is healthy, good t handle and can be ridden, should be able to find a home. But how many people will willingly buy an older dog, unless they are looking for a dog to breed or want to purchase an already trained dog to do a job (herding, personal protection etc)? In my experience most people will choose a pup, or at least a young dog, rather than an older one, despite any advantages an older dog may have (already toilet trained etc) Anyway, I suppose I am going off topic here. My bad.

Wow, makes you wonder if he would recognise his own dog on the street if it ever got out or if he would call the pound about a dangerous dog on the loose? I thought the whole story was pretty funny to start with, until I realized that many people will actually be unsure about the breed of a dog, so if they buy into the media garbage and see a short-haired dog in the street, they may also fall prey to some wrong assumptions. Many people around here have never seen a Weimaraner before, and I have been asked if she is a member of a bully breed before, also if she is a mastiff, Great Dane was most common. I think it is a little scary that the media buzz has managed to stick into this person's mind so much, that as he descends into mental "unsoundness", he remembers that pitbulls are "a danger to society" and all that rubbish, but not that a person came to his house and fixed his computer.... Makes me wonder if we will ever overcome this....

LOL my dog actually knows the "go home" thing xD Lots of dogs tend to know "git" and some even do bugger off when confronted with an angry "GIT away", not my first choice of attack though, in case my dog reads it as agression and tries to "help"

I have a question about the part where the owner is actually present and calling the loose dog - but gets no reaction. My dog is very friendly and actively tries to socialize with any dogs (loose or otherwise, it doesn't make much difference to her), which usually encourages them in their advances. So even if I calmly continue on walking and manage to keep my dog's attention focussed on me, by this stage the loose dog has usually realized that my dog would like to play as well and it has happened to me several times that the dog simply follows us, sometimes all the way to the car/house, even though the owner was not following and/or still calling and my dog was calmly walking away. Several times, I have had to go out of my way (and quite a way, as a running dog can cover a fair bit of distance!) to walk over to where the impotent owner is waving his arms and yelling at his dog, then sit my dog down and wait while the owner attempts to catch his dog and, hopefully, put a leash on him. This can take a while, depending on how agile the dog and owner are. Sometimes the owner has no leash on him and needs to haul the dog off by the collar or even scruff of the neck and I have had to catch the dog for an owner before, as the dog was still attempting to play with my dog and would dodge his owner very successfully........ The owner even went so far as to get down on all fours and attempt to play-bow to his dog to draw his attention (it was a funny enough sight in hindsight, but I don't always have a spare 20 minutes to entertain someone else's dog). Anyway, my point is, how do I react in this situation? I don't really want to fend off a friendly dog with a "weapon" (sticks, umbrellas and such are usually perceived as a threat by most strange dogs) and turn a peaceful situation violent, but it is not always the same owner, so obviously even if I talk to the fool of the day, that won't help me with a different dog and owner the next day. I have to say though, people around here are extremely rude and thoughtless when it comes to controlling their dogs. I have had to carry a 28 kg fear agressive dog out of a situation like this before, because the owner of three dogs, one of whom was deaf and the other two acting the part, decided it would be a good idea to walk her dogs and not even bring leashes. My dog was struggling and not exactly a small specimen, and I barely managed to save those other dogs from being seriously hurt or killed, as they were literally jumping on top of my dog and making a doggy pile on her while the owner would not even come close and attempt to catch her dogs because my dog was growling at the "attackers".........

Maybe it would be easiest to improve legal minimum standards of care for any dogs (i.e. minimum space requirements calculated by actual size, rather than a general rule), so that if cases like this crop up there is an actual legal charge that can be brought forwards? So if these hundreds of dogs were kept on too little space, that would be one charge for each dog. If the law required a bed or bedding to be available to each dog, and these hundreds of dogs had none, this would be a separate charge for each dog again. And so on, and so forth. This is obviously not breeding specific, but might make a nice difference to some dogs, used for breeding or otherwise, in general, especially when such lare amounts of animals are kept by one or two persons without help? Maybe there needs to be a companion animals department with a minister implemented, companion animals are, after-all, a large part of our society? This would then be the main department responsible for dog (and cat) -related issues? How does one go about suggesting these things to the government? Surely a large community such as DOL should have the numbers to make some changes? On a different note, I have to mention that I am German born and only moved to Oz in 2006, I am not a citizen, so cannot really expect or ask the government to make changes as per my opinions.

Are there currently standards in place for things like space requirements and such? I don't really know anything about legal animal welfare requirements regarding dogs, maybe somebody had a link handy?

Very good point! I think this approach would help with a lot of problems that are not even directly connected to puppy farming, such as the general safety of the community. Unfortunately I am afraid this approach might make too much sense for the likes of the law-makers and we will therefore wait for this to happen for a very long time. Are there any politicians or politically active people on DOL?

I did not say there was such a thing as a "dangerous dog breed", and proper reading of my posts may have helped you understand my point. In my opinion, with the current state of hysteria, it will not take long for someone to start targeting this new breed, seeing as now this group of "dangerous" dogs (i.e. pig hunting dogs) is making it easy for them to target it, by registering animals as a member of a breed, where before they were simply unidentifyable crossbreds. A "dangerous" dog can be any breed, and restrictions on breeding of certain breeds only apply to restricted breeds, not breeds that "dangerous dogs" in general are members of, as I would expect most people on DOL to know as this seems to be a fairly common topic in this forum (BSL that is). So obviously, yes, you can breed hunting dogs. There are no restrictions on breeding RRs, Wolfhounds, Pointers, Weims and other pure breeds that are potentially used to bring down an animal, I do not know where you believe I may have said that the breeding is restricted? A "dangerous dog" and a "restricted breed" are two different things. Anyway, my intention was not to start a BSL discussion in the thread, but people do seem to be a little naive as to the possible implications that something like this may have and some people may, after the fact, be sorry to have put their animals in the the firing line, even if that is a totally unintended and unfair consequence of simply creating a breed name for them to enjoy their animals under. This has nothing to do with the animals themselves, this is simply a danger of being a dog owner in the current climate, as I am sure many owners of certain breeds will be able to confirm, be they bully breeds, mastiffs, hunting dogs, or dogs of a certain type or look. This is sad, but true.

I know people who do just that, actually. Fortunately the government has caught on and started making changes to the baby bonus. I also find it to be a pretty big concern when people reckon they "make money" of breeding their dogs, pedigree or (usually) otherwise. In my experience this is usually found to be because of the substandard care and virtually complete lack of expenditure (except for the cheapest home brand dog food) in most of these cases. If you have nearly no expense (i.e. in medical care etc), of course you are still making money, even if you only charge $300 per pup. I also don't think that motive should matter, the dogs suffer no less because somebody needs the money. Other people manage to survive without starting up a puppy mill and nobody cares if a crack dealer needed the money, why should it matter for a puppy farmer? And it sounds to me like these people are dairy farmers? So probably own a property and stock? Who was forcing them to not sell what they couldn't afford to keep? Probably not the nicest option for them, but better than what they ended up doing instead, surely?

I know, my point was that this breed will "officially" be a hunting dog intended to take down large game, regardless of looks, this will, by many councils and even some states, be considered a "dangerous" dog breed, as pig dogs that will hold prey are already classified as dangerous dogs and to be treated as such. What they are really like or what their appearance is will not really matter in this case, unfortunately I am just anticipating all the heartbreak and am kind of thinking that not registering them as a breed may make it easier on them and their owners. Of course everyone is free to do what they like and I am not saying that a breed like ths should not be registered. I think BSL will be a problem, not the breed itself.

This makes me wonder what will happen to any breed created in this manner and for this purpose regarding BSL, seeing as NSW for example regards any dog that is physically used to bring down prey as a dangerous dog, to be treated and housed in the same fashion as restricted breeds (muzzled on walks, concrete floor pen, 6 foot fence etc, I believe they even need padlocks on pens?). At least this was how it was treated last time I checked (it has been 2 years or so, might be different now). That kind of makes me sad for this new breed already and almost makes me wish that they didn't make any efforts at registering any such breed officially, just in case they end up in the same legal straits as APBT and mixed breed bullies without papers to say they are not APBT. Other than that, I do think this is a very legitimate way to purpose create a breed, though I don't know how long it would take for them to breed "true to standard" as many pig dogs unite quite a few different types and breeds of dog lol I guess all breeds had to start somewhere, though, I suppose.