BlackJaq

Well from the article it sounds like that guy passes out a lot, possibly from "overdoses" or whatever so maybe the dog felt it had a lot of reason to be so "overprotective"... I believe my dog would defend me as well if I was down and not moving, even if she knows the people who may be approaching? I don't know if you can tell aggression from protectiveness in this situation and even a well socialized dog may become (overly) protective in these circumstances. I do believe further training may enable police officers to handle these kind of situations a little better. In saying that though, if the officer feared being attacked/injured himself, I see him defending hmself as acceptable. Maybe not necessarily with the gun to begin with but in that kind of ituation you may not get a second chance... If the owner really does pass out from overdoses regularly then maybe he should either work on his ssues or not take his dog into public places after shooting up so that he may be helped without risking anyone else's health and safety...

Here is a picture with our "pants" on, just for the entertainment value :p

Mmm yes finding suitable homes for the pups is a formidable task which, to be honest, I haven't really given enough consideration. I feel that this breed is definately not suitable to everyone and without guidance from an experienced breeder I would likely not be able to screen potential puppy buyers properly. I think spaying is going to be the better option for both of us and we are booked in for the 19th of Septmeber now since she is on heat atm. I didn't realize about the BYBs in this area but am not surprised to be honest :p

Fair enough :) I have to add that we live on a farm and spend many hours a day outside without the pants on. Generally there will be several hours outside in the morning, then lunch indoors, and another few hours outside before dark. Then indoors over night so she is not wearing them all day without a chance to clean up at all. I am really less worried about the stains than the smell. My partner is not very big on animals indoors and the compromise was for her to wear pants inside instead of sleeping outside during heat. Of course making her sleep outside was completely unacceptable to me but not everybody feels the same way about dogs and unfortunately, my partner doesn't. In that sense I thought the compromise was fair :) ETA: After some further thinking I have pretty much decided to spay. I don't think anybody looses this way (in fact, I will be saving a LOT of money lol) and we will not have to go through another heat, which will be a bonus for both of us I think. If we are really lucky she will finally get to a normal, steady weight after spaying...

Wow, thanks for the many quick replies :) So you think as long as there is a good show record the skinnyness should not be an issue? What are my chances of finding someone locally to help me out with the dog show side of things? Everyone I know is either "retired" or too far away I am in the Orange/Dubbo area if anybody has any suggestions? ;) Or am I better off asking in the "showring" subforum?

No she has not been to any shows yet, which is why I haven't been looking to breed her. I wasn't going to have her bred until around this time next year and was going to take her to a few shows in the coming months. If she didn't do well I also would have spayed her but I am now thinking that there is not much point in spending the kind of money it takes to travel and show her (I show my horses so I have a good idea how much this will cost me) if I am going to de-sex her anyways, time is also an issue because I cannot be in two rings at once. Her breeder seems to think she will do well. If there were obvious problems she probably would not have been sold with main registration, then again se was very young when this was decided. I will post some photos for your viewing pleasure if you like. Several locals who also own Weis and have showed and bred in the past seemed to think we should do well also. There will be no breeding without proper evaluation. All vets consulted on the issue seemed to think it was not an issue because they "are a lean breed" and when asked about blood tests all agreed that we would likely not find much. I will have some blood drawn now anyways to help me in my decision. Do you think there are other tests that should be done? Finacially I should be able to cover whatever medical care she needs, including c-section, aftercare, hospitalization, etc I obviously don't want her to die hence my thinking about spaying now rather than going through with her having a litter and then struggling to maintain herself as well as puppies. I realize that most dogs will usually like their own puppies, even if they do not like other puppies but I feel I know her quite well and simply do not feel that she would enjoy raising a litter. It is only a gut feeling based on me knowing the dog for almost two years now and of course I could be wrong and she would love it. There is no way of knowing until after things are done unfortunately. May I ask why you don't like pants? How do you deal with dogs on heat inside? It seems some dogs bleed less and so are able to clean up after themselves a little better. Sadly when we tested that theory we ended up with spotted carpets and open windows for about 2 weeks after heat lol

Hello Everybody :) So I understand that there are people on either side of the de-sex and breeding issue who feel very strongly about their point but I would liek to make the best decision for my dog and myself so I would really appreciate opinions based on our situation, rather than non-compromising individual opinions :) In 2010 I bought a main register Weimaraner bitch with the intention of raising at least one litter and she is now almost 2 years old. We've been struggling with keeping weight on her pretty much from the beginning and she has been seen by several vets very regularly throughout her life for various reasons including some minor accidents and she is healthy as far the vets and I can tell, vaccinated (heart worm + c3), wormed regularly and flea treated as necessary (not very often as we live out of town without neighbours/stray dogs). She has been on various diets and apart from the fact that she is skinny for periods of time (skinny as in, all ribs are visible, pointy hip bones but good muscling around chest, belly and thighs) she does not have any issues. Her coat and teeth are good and she is active and outgoing. She went through a period where she was rather skinny and had anal gland issues for that time but they seem to be linked to the amount of fat around that area and simply do not express properly when they are sunken in to a degree. Anal gland issues have not been issues for several months now. I feel that it is in her best interest to abolish my plans for a litter in favor of de-sexing her as I do think she will be battling with weight during preganacy and especially whilst nursing puppies. She does not seem overly fond of puppies as it is and being on heat is not her favorite time of year, since she is not allowed in the bed and has to wear "pants" (basically I use budgie smugglers with an open fly for her tail and ladies' pads) inside and in the car during heat to avoid everybody suffocating on the stink :p She bleeds fairly heavily and I didn't keep exact records for length of heat but I believe she stays on for 4 weeks or more generally from start to fnish. Not having puppies will definately not be the end of the world for me since I love my girl very much and do not want to do anything that is not in her best interest. As it is, I was scared of the pregnancy and birth. So, does anybody have any advice or opinions? I'm pretty much open to all opinions on the matter since I am as yet undecided on whether or not to de-sex her. She seems to be gaining some weight with her current diet but still only weighs around 25-26 kg. I think around 27-28 would probably be an ideal weight for her but even if she was hovering around the lower end of that, I believe puppies would quickly reduce her back to an unhealthy weight?

That sounds pretty much like the kind of set-up I would need around here believe. There are usually sows with piglets about to I would be worried about a single dog's ability to deal with a mob with motherly/defensive sows or several adults in general. There would also need to be a very good fence to ensure the dog cannot escape the proeprty. How big an area would an Anatolian cover? I assume that internal fences would not be too much of an obstacle to the dogs sicne other people's LGDs will travel between pastures? There are no houses within several km of our house and liek I said, national park on three sides so no stock or people living there. I would be interested in speaking to the lady without you dog sicne I have never owned a dog with a similar personality. All ym dogs so far have been high strung but timid with strangers/loud persons. The only aggression I have had so far was a fear aggressive dog on steroids (for an immune condition that was causing the body to attack the cartlidge in some parts of her body), so naturally before she was sick she was ok and pretty easy to manage. We put her down in the end because steroids weren't fixing it, just delaying reactions. What kind of management would a dog as described require? Mostly containment-wise? How would the dog cope with being vetted if injured (possibly by a stranger or relatively unknown vet) Would there be issues with handling the dog? Or would the dog be ok with people living on the property? How about new animals or people (.i.e. kids maybe.. one day lol) or even people visiting? Would the dog accept visitors if introduced by the handler or would he need to be confined when shearers/vets/visitors come out and handle lifestock?

I know that our tip will take any animal for a fee, not sure about the exact prices, probably around $15 dollars for small animals (cats/rabbits) maybe $30-ish for dogs and I think around $150 for horses and cows so I can very well see disposal in landfill being used in other areas, too. None of my animals will be disposed of at the tip though sinc eI own my own property of several hundred acres and am free to bury them wherever I like and plant beautiful plants on their graves. I am lucky in that way and also because we are in a position to use firearms to send our animals over the rainbow bridge. Sounds horrible but I ahve found a well placed bullet to be kinder to most animals since they receive it at home, in comfortable, familiar surroundings with their people close by and preferably a mouth full of marrow bone/oats/whatever they like. Last year we had to PTS my TB mare. We used a large caliber rifle and informed ourselves of the kill spot well in advance. We had to walk her a little way over to where her final resting place was going to be and since she'd severed several tendons on her near side back leg walking was a little difficult for her and she was juiced up on all the bute I had left and barely even limped on the way. She went down right away and never even twitched an ear. I did not pull the trigger myself but I held her rope and hay while someone more experienced than I shot her point blank. This was way less traumatizing for me than previous experiences I have had of horses being euthanized via drugs. I did not like the process of seeing the horse struggle not to go down and then fall over still thrashing. I did not like watching the lights go out slowly at all, so honestly I find a bullet less diturbing, not more so. We had a dog go the same way about two years ago and she also died happy and excited with her favorite treats in her mouth. Honestly, letting an animal go this way is very cheap and I feel bad for anyone who, on top of having to cope with the loss, has to fork out for the priviledge. I also feel for anyone who is not in a position to give their pets the burail of their choice. I love planting things in their final resting places and watching something beautiful grow from my loss. I offer the same to all my friends but many of them will not even consider what they will do when the time comes. I would rather not imagine how much euth + disposal would cost me with a horse if I was not in a position to do it myself :/

My dog actually steals entire carrots that are meant to be for the horses. I get a bit worried about the carrots causign blockages when she eats the whole thing at once but have not had any trouble so far. I try to keep them out of reach now and only feed small amounts at a time but it only takes half a second of me looking away and she will snatch them right out of the bucket :p

I have not read anything but I would really like to know what drives a "pet dog" to enter somebodies home and kill a human despite being attacked by several adults. The dog also injuried other people beforehand. I would like to know what the behaviour was after the attack was discontinued? Was the dog restrained and thus unable to attack further? Or did he simply stop after the child was dead? I hope the royal commission will have a heavy focus on the dog's behaviour as well as the external circumstances. If somebody told me this story and it was not on the news I probably would not have believe that a dog would go to such lengths. Unless as was mentioned earlier, he may have been traiend to attack dark skinned people. What a horrendous thought and hopefully not true.

Aggression is not the only reason that dogs bite. Fear, pain and even annoyance may cause a dog to bite. Sexual frustration, also, seems to be a factor, as does food protectiveness and jealousy of other dogs. If you are referring to the Weimaraner as "hunting dogs with blinding aggression" then you obviously don't know anything about the breed. The Wei is a Retriever and blood tracker. A good gun dog will always try to retrieve the prey as is, so they will attempt to retrieve it ALIVE if the bullet did not kill it. It is then up to the hunter to kill it. They have a very soft mouth (again, good breeding should aim for this) so that a duck or rabbit retireved by the dog does not sustain any bruising or punctures which might render the meat inedible. They do not chase and kill stuff indiscriminately. Apart from "bull arabs" and other dogs bred to take down large game manually, I cannot see how "blind aggression" would be useful in a hunting dog? Even so, a large game hunting dog must still be handleable by humans and should be able to be called off, no? GSDs, Rottweilers and Dobes are all popular for Schutzhund competition because they have the drive and possibly even some "gameness" to hang onto a person even when under attack from the same person or accomplices. Do you not think this inclination would be dangerous with the same twerps who now prefer bull breeds? Bull breeds are not generally bred for agression either? What makes you think that a bully x is moe likely to attack than a Rottweiler x? In fact, any large breed crossed with a terrier can be prone to unstable temperaments in my experience because the purpose of the breeds clashes too much. JRT for example will happily kill mice and rats all day. Cross that with a large, powerful but low drive dog, you might end up with a large, powerful dog with the drive to catch and kill things that move quickly. This can include children on skateboards.. Your argument that these breeds are not used is not valid because they HAVE ALREADY been used in the past. I find it hard believe that you claim to have been a dog trainer for such a long time, yet you do not know these things? Do you decline clients with cross bred dogs in case they are "killing machines"? Or only those that look like they might be bull breeds? What if they only have the looks of a bull breed but are truly lab crosses? Gun dog crosses? Short haired dogs in general? You seem fairly hateful of either all cross breds or just bull breeds in particular? Honestly this does not strike me as the mark of a dog person, especially one as experienced as you claim to be? Your description of hunting dogs makes me doubt your sanity a little. ETA: Also, hunting dogs are supposed to have a high "prey drive", not aggression, not to mention "blinding agression". Big difference IMO.

Thanks :)

Sorry but that is ridiculous. Completely laughable. Maybe your "ideal" dog is like this, but most "real" dogs will have something or other or certain situations that they feel uncomfortable with or are even afraid of. They are dogs, not robots. Yes I agree in a perfect world that should be the case, but on the other hand I can see why the type of dogs who fall victim to a lack of owner control and management posing a danger to the community become targets for irradication in the stance for saftey. If we eradicate the type or breed of dog that they like to use now they will simply move onto something else. German Shepherds, Rottweilers, Dobermans, these are all purebreds and they have all previously been in the same situation as the Pitbull is in now. Labradors have not had their reputation marred by lowlife owners as these breeds have, however, they still have fairly high numbers in most bite stats I ahve laid eyes on so far. Where does this leave your argument that purebreds don't ever bite? Pretty sure I've read a news article about a pomeranian killing a baby before and even my breed of choice, the Weimaraner, has caused fatalities. Not so long ago a toddler in the US was bitten on the neck by the family's Wei and died. None of these dogs are even bull breeds at all. I also don't get the feeling that you like dogs in general very much. Maybe you should just stay away from them, you miht feel a lot safer...

Yes but unless you have detailed knowledge of the actual incident, your post was based on speculation. The exact circumstances should be investigated and acted upon. So if, for example, the boy really was stirring up the dog, a school based education programme might be in order. If the boy was simply curious and looked over the fence to see what kind of dog it was, a school based education programme is probably still in order, but the dog's history and siblings' temperaments should maybe be investigated as well. If the dog had a previous history then there also needs to be some investigation to determine how the child was able to reach over the fence at all since the dog obviously needed to be confined extra securely due to previous incidences. I hope you see what I mean, just because this case fits the statisctics does not mean we know the exact circumstances and they are what should determine a useful course to help avoid this kind of thing int he future.

How is it there are never any details on incidents like this to be found? Is anybody even investigating what causes dogs to bite in these cases or does the government simply go "Yep, dogs bite for no reason at all. Was probably one of them thar Pitbulls you always hear about" You'd think a lot of incidences could be prevented if one actually investigated the circumstances of previous incidents? Surely reducing the number of incidents would be better publicity than constantly having to fight dog owners whose dogs are about to be destroyed for no reason other than looks?

I am a little sad that certain traits which are necessary for some working dogs (not just sheep and cattle dogs, this includes lifestock guard dogs and hunting dogs of all descriptions) may cause these breeds to get a bad rep because clueless "owners" do not inform themselves of their needs and behaviour. Just because a dog is "pretty" does not make it a good pet. However, the same dog might be an excellent work dog in the right circumstances. I don't believe we should eradicate these traits to make these dogs "dummy friendly". Maybe people just need to accept that some breeds are just not good at being pets without very high maintenance requirements and people should simply stay away from them and get something more suitable if they do not have huge amounts of time and competence available to them. Also, re: only purebreds are guaranteed not to bite, some breeds are selectively bred FOR traits that CAN cause biting in the wrong circumstances. A blue heeler may start to herd and nip people in some circumstances, hunting dogs like Pointers and Weis may chase and grab small children if they do not recognize them as people, Retrievers may start biting hands and LGD may attack "intruders" if managed badly. All these behaviours can be caused by traits that these breeds are bred for. So how are they any safer than mixed breed dogs of unknown heritage? I honestly believe that no matter what the disposition of the dog is, whether it is a blood thirsty killing machine or super-smooching couch lizard, it should ALWAYS be up to the owner to manage the dog and the owner should be responsible for the dog in all circumstances. I agree that education and licensing may actually do something to reduce incidences like this and maybe facilities need to be inspected before a dog can be acquired as well. Not all fencing is dog fencing. Not all dogs are happy to live outside by themselves 24/7. Not all dogs are happy to suffer boredom in a tiny backyard all day. Not all dogs will refrain from tunneling out of their back yard if left alone. Not all dogs have no anxiety or fear issues. Not all dogs will not chase lifestock if given half a chance. In fact, in these kind of circumstances, most dogs can present a problem so I think owners must be held much more responsible. It should be a huge decision for ANYONE to get a dog, not just a matter of being bored with a spare $50 in your back pocket and calling up the dude from the poster at Woolies to grab one of them thar pups he's got advertised. Dogs that injure or kill people should be classified as weapons and owners should be punished accordingly.

Ok thank You, I would love some more info :)

So I don't think anybody has asked about fencing yet? I own about 600 acres adjoining a natinal forest and am having a lot of difficulty with Foxes and wild pigs. How would a working dog cope with a mob of pigs? I do not have any lifestock other than poultry and two horses at the moment because the fences are just not up to it (I only purchased the place about 18 months ago) and am looking to re-fence the boundary first. Obviously predator proof fencing would be great but I have several km's of fence line to do so this would likely not be an option. About 400 acres of my place are forrested as well, only about 200 are cleared for grazing, however the soil is pretty poor and prone to erosion so I will likely plant fodder trees to cover most of this area to about 40%. The property is also very hilly. We do not get many visitors but have had lots of property stolen off neighbours' places and things have been taken here as well before I bought this place (apparently someone came and stole a brand new bobcat off this place about three years ago... They must have brough a truck and everything). I already own a Weimaraner who is kept inside with me and does some minor retrieving work when we go shooting rabbits and foxes, and a pound dog who is temporarily on poultry duty outside due to a heavier coat. She is penned next to the chicken coop at night but is fine with chickens etc loose during the day so I suppose she is acting as a lifestock guard dog despite unknown breeding (guesses have been made at anything from RR to boxer or other bully breeds). What kind and height of fencing would I need to keep the dogs in? Will they dig under? Are they likely to come to the house for company if the lifestock numbers are fairly low? Will they guard against strange animals? My neighbours' horses have found their way into my property before, damaging my electric fencing and attempting to "join" my horses to their herd... Also, are they likely to be injured by feral pigs guarding their piglets? Feral pigs will eat lambs and kids and also poultry, hence my asking as the dog is likely to get into a sitation where it will need to guard stock from pigs. Then again, I may get pigs in the future, will they differentiate between penned pigs and feral pigs? Am I better off not getting guard dogs due to the danger if people coming to steal things are armed? I am not keen on the idea of dogs guarding the house for that reason, but if a dog was kept for the free range poultry near the house, I am guessing the dog might guard the house as well so any intruders would feel threatened enough to dispose of the dog? It sucks to have to consider this but I have known of guard dogs in the industrial estate being shot or poisoned by intruders

I agree as well. It is your pup and so you should have final say in what is to be done and not to be done with her. When I first brought my Weimaraner pup home I told my partner that I did not want his large dog-aggressive dog to be allowed to play with her since I was planning on taking her with me to shows and friends' houses and she needed to be well socialized and friendly. Sure enough, I ran outside to yelping and puppy screaming one day and here is his freaking dog, pinning my very young puppy on her back, holding her by the throat and shaking her. Needless to say, both boy friend and dog received some well aimed kicks, the dog because I was afraid to stick my hands in there and he was not letting off when told, the boy friend because my pup was terrified and he went against my explicit wishes :p Luckily she was not actually hurt but is very scared of strange dogs now. If the other dog's reaction is friendly she is ok and will play but if they bark at her or do not respond super friendly right away she just cowers very close to the ground with her tail between her legs until I remove her from the situation. She is confident most other times, just first meetings and if play with a new doggie friend gets a bit rough/any kind of wrestling she will get scared and ask to be protected again. Anyways, long story short, if he cannot play with the pup in a way that you think is ok then I would keep the pup somewhere else when he visits so he does not get a chance to play at all. Of course you will need to explain why and all that, but I would not be shy about forbidding it if you do not like what is done :)

Well, a breeder is wilfully "producing" dogs, whereas RSPCA tries to take and rehome as many as possible that they didn't "make" sort of thing. Ther eis a difference in my opinion, but I still don't really agree with the whole thing. It is incredibly hard to please eevryone though, if not downright impossible...

Yes, the coroner's sex is the most important fact in all of this. ETA: No, I said the breed would likely be impossible to be determined, so the focus should be on the owner. Oh, and I had a laugh at the article that called the dog a "killer pit bull"

That's too difficult, Telida. Tabloids are the font of all knowledge, doncha know. It terrifies me that people might actually think what's written in the newspapers or goes on TV news shows is objective or factual. It frustrates the hell out of me when people won't educate themselves on an issue before freaking out about it and denigrating legal processes like coronials. Want to bet this will end up being a closed court because of it? Well, anyone who read my earlier post would have realized that I think the media is being anything BUT objective and factual. It is not so hard to actually read what I wrote, rather than drawing on own conclusions as to what I meant. Isn't that what you expect me to do? All my comments were only addressing the articles from this thread. I haven't done any research into the topic and never claimed that I did. I have read the link and find no information there that I didn't already know and the Coroner i only a person after-all, not a robot, so I therefore hope that he will not be nfluenced by the media. What is wrong with that? I don't really understand the problem you guys seem to have? Other than feeling very important and not wanting to read anyone's opinions that is...

It's called "saracsm" and maybe you need to learn about it ETA: Where do you read that I am lacking respect? If this inquest is only about the little girl and the circumstances of her death, why is there such a large focus on the breed of the dog? Yes, a girl has died, and that should be the focus, and hopefully the Coroner will not be influenced by the media circus about the whole breed thing and make actual, effective recommendations. If people can't state their opinions on a public forum, then why do we even bother discussing this here? I am not judging anyone in my "kangaroo-court" and didn't say this was a trial. A trial does not prove anything, it produces a verdict. Maybe you need to read for comprehension before commenting next time.

it's going to "prove" that "pit bulls" are evil killing machines :p