BlackJaq

Well OH's dog is not allowed inside anymore since the lounge episode as I was honestly getting a little worried about myself and my dogs. Before that they had chains attached to the wall above their individual beds, so everybody could sleep inside without being able to get to each other. Not too different from crating, really, but a lot cheaper and all the dogs were happy with this situation as far as I can tell (I am saying this because I have been told that this solution is somehow inherently inhumane before, yet people seem to be happy to crate their dogs over night or use other means of separating dogs, especially entires?) My bitch is a lot younger than OH's boy and he had the same issues well before she came along, so I don't think it is sexual frustration over her causing his reactions. All of my other dogs in the past were de-sexed. He did ok with my German Coolie girl who was very submissive and seemed not to "set him off" much. He still took some minor skin off her and was allowed to play loose less and less as he got older and incidents increased. Sadly this dog passed away from a snake bite and his behaviour has become too unpredictable for me to feel comfortable with him and my dogs loose together. Foxy is now spayed so there are no more entires around, only another spayed female. I have to say, OH's dog is generally well behaved (I used to do a lot of training with him when he was younger/less reactive), he did not whine or fret much even when Foxy was on heat and he knows a lot of tricks and performs them very well. In a fenced area his recall is very good and he is generally pleasant to be around except when he is reacting to a "misdemeanor" on anyone's part. He is NOT safe with strangers as far as we can tell from his behaviour from a distance (obedient but very stiff, stays quiet but it seems he is waiting for them to get that little bit too close and even when he does not fixate them he is extremely aware at all times) and we have not asked anybody he is reacting to to come close enough to find out how serious he is. Somebody climbed our fence when we were still living in town and left behind part of their backpack (in his mouth), lucky he did not get them by the pants I would like to see OH at least see a behaviourist with the dog but he does not have much time or inclination to do so. He is ok with how the dog is kept now (outside in a large run of his own and goes to work with OH since the family run their own business) and I am not physically able to restrain him if necessary since he is more than half my weight. I do not open the door to his run EVER now.

Yes, I have been pushing the "prostate" angle since my OH has had a major prostate scare himself (despite only being in his early 20s). I am quietly hoping that the dog will become a little more sociable if he ends up getting the snip. At the moment he is only allowed contact with my dogs through a chain link fence or on leash and with me present, since his behaviour can be unpredictable. Sometimes he is quite tolerant, sometimes he will snap and "punish" a dog quite violently for minor transgressions. Not ideal for the dog but my own dogs are honestly more important to me than this dog, and his quality of life is such that if he were mine I would have had him PTS, not to mention the potential risk to other animals and people. I would not want to be in charge of this dog, legally speaking. I may also be overreacting but I refuse to be in an area with the dog off leash since he has reacted violently to OH in the past when provoked in a minor manner (sent off lounge etc). To be honest, the dog's temperament is way too strong for OH to handle as he is being very inconsistent and soft. He is definitely not pet quality in any sense of the word but was and still is OH's first and only dog so he is not prepared to PTS and acts like neutering the dog will somehow affect the health of his own junk...

I just read the title of the thread which is Testosterone - How Long Till Levels Drop After De-sexing?, so I was just wondering what changes castrating a 5 year old male would likely cause? I have been trying to convince my partner forever to neuter his occasionally DA entire male and he seems to be getting more aware of the medical issues of not castrating him as he gets older rather than anything else. I really want to see him neutered so there is no possible way he ever passes on his exceptionally poor temperament (not only DA, he has other issues) but am also wondering if maybe neuter might change some of his behaviour in general? I realize he is older and it will have less impact than with a young dog but still interested in opinions. Sorry OP, not trying to steal your thread but I thought this is sort of the topic so I might as well ask :)

That is exactly what I said, all "pet only dogs" being neutered. I think licencing all breeders would be great and I also think that people should need a licence to own an entire dog. Some work dogs do not have ANKC papers but that doesn't necessarily mean they should not be bred as they are bred for a job and as long as the breeding is responsibly done (i.e. all applicable health testing done, careful selection of breeding stock etc). The ANKC is not the ultimate authority on breeding any and all dogs and some breeds that may not even be recognized by ANKC are still valid breeds in other parts of the world and I do not believe that they should not be allowed to be bred here just because they are not ANKC registered. Either which way, requiring everybody to either hold a breeders permit or de-sex their dogs would be a more valid move than to impose BSL on dogs based on looks alone as it is done at the moment. There will always be people disagreeing but I can almost guarantee that bite statistics would look vastly different after this was enforced (yes, not just brought into existence but enforced also). I even believe that councils would be happy to enforce this as long as the process was straight forward and the monetary punishment (which should be awarded to the council) is substantial enough to warrant the effort. BSL is not only a piss poor excuse for a law but it is also very poorly and inconsistently enforced and there is not much monetary gain for councils to enforce it either, quite the opposite, it costs money to peruse these cases. How fast do you think they would police a neuter/licence law if each case added to their budget rather than draining it.

Yes, I am also waiting with baited breath to see how her weight goes. She has not eaten too much since the surgery, mostly very special things like more roast and a pizza crust. She did eat some kibble finally last night but not too much. At this stage I am not too worried but because she is on the lean side again I think it may take a few weeks after she heals properly to actually see improvement... She was not moody or even naughty or anything during heat, just stinky and not allowed on furniture/in bed during that time which bothered mostly me and her, OH not so much haha. Taking her to town or anywhere that had other dogs (lots of roaming and of leash dogs where I live) was a nightmare since every dog would come right at us and I even had dogs trying to break into my car when I left her in it to go into the newsagents She was probably a bit more likely to steal food during that time, which is something she would not normally consider doing at all, especially of a plate. We can happily leave our dinner on the table and walk out to get the salt and she would not even lift her head but when on heat she would do stuff like lick the table near the plate and such, nothing overly bad just out of character.... Thank you Tazar and lilli and mantis, lol well I did throw that idea out there when he complained that the animals eat better than him most days and have not heard any complaints since so I think the idea was enough to stun him into permanent silence haha

Yay where is the "Like" button?!

So for anybody who was interested, I had to delay the appointment so did not get the snip at the original date but Foxy has now been spayed two days ago. She did take another dip in weight (down to about 25 kg on spay day) so I am really hoping things level out now that the hormonal activity will be largely removed/reduced. I have not actually spoken to the breeder about de-sexing her but since they own both the father and the mother I am sure they can easily replace her if need be. She is plenty old enough that they would have contacted me about breeding from her if they had considered it. On a different note, I am that excited not to have to deal with another heat again, not sure if I will ever want to own an entire dog or bitch again, even if I did feel the urge to breed. If I really wanted to spend that kind of money I could probably just sponsor a registered breeder's litter in exchange for puppy play rights :p lol Haha At least that way an experienced, knowledgeable person does the breeding and the outcome will be the best possible result.

Finding reasons that explain the behaviour is not making excuses for it. It is the only way to effectively devise strategies to prevent these things from happening again. For example I have read several studies that show that entire male dogs make up a large number of culprits in dog bite statistics. If every pet home were forced to neuter their male dogs, I assume the bites caused by entire male dogs would reduce dramatically. I know you will argue that these same dogs will still bite even if neutered, but how do you know if you do not try it? In my opinion this approach is far more constructive than simply blaming a certain look of dog and attempting to eradicate a type of dog that makes up such a large portion of the dog population.

Am also interested to know if CCTV turned up any clues?

Why is a dog mouthing not an attack? Mouthing can be quite forceful and a dog can bite hard in play and without aggression. The dog that killed Ayen Chol had severe pressure sores that were ulcerated, according to the coroner's report. This means the dog was in pain. So, according to your definitions, the dog did NOT launch an unprovoked attack? I think this is very untrue. I just explained in one of my previous posts how a dog can "attack" (i.e. physically assault someone/thing with force) for various reasons and people might not be knowledgeable enough to understand why, that does not mean that there is no reason (i.e. provocation) and I listed several common reasons. Where do you get the information that most dog attacks are unprovoked attacks? Is it because they do not commonly list any reason other than breed in media coverage?

Yes, tug of war is not a good option if you are distracting your dog from a "target". Not all rewards are suitable for all dogs in all situations of course :)

You have not answered the question :) What do YOU think is an unprovoked attack?

You can use anything your dog sees as a reward as the reward. Some dogs will prefer a toy/dummy/squeaker or even just a pat or vocal praise :)

What constitutes an "unprovoked" attack in your book? One where a person does not intend for the dog to attack them? In that case, yes, you are probably right, most people wouldn't want to be attacked. However, there is usually a reason for a dog attack. Whether you think the reason sufficient or not is beside the point. A dog may simply turn its aggression against a nearby person because it is in pain and does not know how to stop being in pain. Or else the dog may not have been socialized and does not realize that it is causing pain to a human by biting. My dogs bite each other all the time and their coat usually stops them from being harmed. If they bit me with the same force I would probably bleed. HOWEVER I have taught my dogs that I feel their teeth much more than another dog would. Not all dogs have been lucky enough to receive bite inhibition training or even training on how to play with humans without hurting them. Frustration can be another reason. A dog that is chained all the time, constantly lurching into the end of the chain may become overwhelmed when it is finally free of the chain. They call that "chain mad" around here and it is a common thing. People and even neighbourhood cats know not to go near those kind of dogs, no matter the breed. Children especially can be susceptible to becoming victims of the prey drive of some dogs. This dog may not be aggressive at all, but smply trying to catch and hold the "prey". One tooth placed in the right spot can be enough to kill a child, no matter the breed or intention of the dog. Anyway, my point is, there are countless reasons for a dog to bite, and somebody not very knowledgeable (not saying you are not.. but you might not be, judging by your posts) may not be able to tell why the dog acted the way it did and this will then be labelled an unprovoked attack, even though the dog has, technically, been provoked, generally through no fault of the victim.

Well, this certainly sounds unprovoked, let's add Pomeranians to the restricted list: http://articles.latimes.com/2000/oct/09/local/me-34015 Also, personally, I have been chased and even attacked by way more cattle dogs who were not safely confined to their owners' properties than any other dog breed. That may be because many, many people around here have cattle dogs. Or maybe because cattle dogs are really "landsharks" or maybe I was wearing a ham sandwich outfit each time.... I don't think I have EVER been threatened by a bully breed before. And we have LOTS of them around here, too. Possibly even more than cattle dogs.

I also checked here this morning hoping to see god news like Buckie had I have also changed my fb profile pic to Orange's poster and had a few questions asked about it so it seems people are noticing. I'm in rural NSW so probably not that relevant to your search but it's better than nothing I suppose. People who steal animals don't deserve the oxygen they breathe... Keeping everything crossed that any of the shops cameras picked something up!

I agree. It is atrocious that if your dog kills somebody your punishment depends on the head measurements of your dog?? Surely the owner should be punished according to how preventable the incident was, not according to the shape of the dog?

Lol.. speak of vinegar! My Wei learnt her lesson about stealing food off plates/bowls when she got tall enough to be able to reach on top of the coffee table easily.. She spotted an unattended bowl and thought "You Beauty!" and went in for a big mouth full.. Unfortunately for her it had had salad in it and I like lots of vinegar on my lettuce. The bowl was empty except for some vinegar and oil and she got a big nose full of the stuff. She never did that again. EVER lol!

It sounds to me like some people would like to see all dogs that fit the standard culled, no matter the breeding.

But there are just so MANY crosses that could produce a pitbull type many of which would not even have ANY bully blood. What should happen to the countless dogs without papers who don't even have any bully blood at all but measure in as a pitbull type? Should be apply the guide to all dogs before rehoming and kill any who match the guide? That would certainly take care of a lot of dogs in pounds and shelters everywhere, saving time, effort and lots of money. We are basically talking eradication of almost all short coated cross bred dogs here

None of the other breed papers are accepted as proof in Vic. Only AmStaff. So theoretically any dog, pure bred or not, EXCEPT AmStaffs with papers can be declared pitbull types and destroyed if they tick enough of the boxes on the guide. Your response didn't really make much sense. What, so it is your own fault if your labrador has a fat head and measures in as a pitbull type? Since your dogs don't have AmStaff papers they are not safe either (in Vic)

In Vic that piece of paper will be useless to you unless it says your dog is an AmStaff, no other breed papers are accepted. So now what do you do?

Hehe I used the water bottle too, when my dogs were little. It worked really well! Nobody wants to be squirted!

Yes, I have also had offers to buy my dog before. Who does that? I mean, seriously, who would consider walking up to a total stranger and ask them to buy their dog?? I left the person who asked me spluttering when I told them what she cost as a puppy so they obviously knew nothing about the breed and thought she was some mutt? They obviously didn't want her as a pet....

Never mind it's a Staffy, have found a picture now http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/search-for-lost-dog-buckie-goes-viral/story-e6frg6n6-1226497329719