BlackJaq

So is there any difference between animal protein and plant protein? Can you buy artificial protein? I know my OH uses a supplementary protein powder for himself but never considered that this might be a viable alternative to other sources or protein? Are there other things contained in animal products that dogs would miss out on on an animal product free diet? I cant imagine the protein would be the only thing they need?

Well no commercial animal products are cruelty free but there are some humane alternatives? Certified free range and such? Everybody seems to think I don't know where animal products come from because I use them? I actually raise a lot of my own animals for my own consumption and for my pets as well because I don't agree with how a lot of animals are raised :) I don't suppose anybody has found any studies that might answer the OP question? Edit: Re battery hens: I am well aware and keep my own chickens on free range.

I would prefer to live a "no kill" lifestyle across the board, I choose to not use products that test on animals as much as possible (ie: the ones that admit to it!) or eat animal products, but in choosing to own dogs I choose to feed them meat. Some people don't want to make the sacrifice in their pets lives and want to continue their "no kill" lifestyle (or whatever term they choose to use) by feeding their pets a veg*n diet. It probably hasn't occured to you because you aren't veg*n - but it's probably crossed the mind of most veg*ns ;) Well it has occurred to me, even though I eat meat, otherwise I would not have mentioned it as a reason :) So if the "no kill" lifestyle is that goal, maybe a dog or cat is not an ideal pet? ETA: Also, with a "no kill" lifestyle, why does the diet have to be vegan? No cow has to die to produce milk? And if a hen is not run with a rooster then the eggs do not contain a valid foetus either?

Can I ask what the reasons are for wanting to feed a dog a fully vegan diet? Obviously if it is about not wanting to kill another animal for food then there is not much that can be done but if there are "only" concerns as to how ethically the animal was raised, maybe raising your own rabbits or guinea pigs or even chickens for meat might be an option? The reason I ask is that I don't believe anybody would want to feed their dog a vegan diet simply because they believe it is healthier for the dog unless the dog has a medical condition? Or is that the reasoning? If so, I wonder why? I am not trying to offend anyone, just seriously wondering since it has never occurred to me to not feed my dog any animal products, seeing as dogs have been consuming animal "products" (probably mostly meat) for as long as they existed as a species? It seems a little like attempting to feed pigs a purely meat diet? Sure, they are all "omnivores" (not everybody agrees that dogs are, indeed omnivores actually), but that does not necessarily make a diet of only veg or only meat healthy? Edited because I can't spell

Still nothing?? She is still on my profile picture on fb as well

Aren't dogs meant to be restrained when they are in cars anyway? Yes I think they are and mine both wear seatbelt harnesses in the car

Yes, definitely spray them at night whatever you use as they will all be there and a bit dopey, too. If you do it during the day some might be away and just re-colonize the nest or build a new one nearby

I use petrol. It evaporates very quickly on a warm day but you probably can't re-use the cheap spray bottles because it erodes the plastic. Have cleaned up several paper wasp nest with it around here and the smell does not hang around for long.

She is beautiful!! Would like to see some baby lab puppy pictures now plz :)

I bet the dogs owner didn't think their dog would do this either. It does not matter what an owner believes. For all we know the dog had a medical condition like a brain tumour that caused it to behave this way. As no internal autopsy was performed we will never know. So what if it had been a Golden, Lab or cross thereof? Why would it not be capable of doing the same? It has teeth all the same and is a large and powerful dog in its own right. Just because you don't believe it capable does not mean it is not. This sort of thinking breeds complacence and is dangerous unto itself. I also find it highly offensive when you repeatedly label a living being a piece of crap. It was a dog and we do not know why it behaved in the way it did. Even if it was purely genetic aggression that still does not make it a piece of crap. People are born retarded, disabled and with aggressive tendencies all the time. That does not mean they are a piece of crap, not to mention they cannot help it. And if this dog was indeed genetically programmed to behave in this manner (which is not what I believe, it is what the coroner implies when saying the breed is at fault) then it can hardly help that, either. Neither can it help physical illness. There must be something seriously wrong with you judging by the language you apply to all sorts of dogs in different situations on this forum. Aggressive dogs are pieces of crap. Mixed breeds are pieces of crap. Anything without papers is a piece of crap. They should all be killed. What are you, a dog nazi?

Did you read both articles?

You're kidding? Peanut Butter? I've been cutting/pulling/scrubbing pine sap off my dog when I could have used Peanut Butter? D'oh!

An easy solution would be to have windows up high enough that whatever dog is in the car cannot jump out. And to restrain dogs inside cars. If the dog had been unrestrained in the car and jumped out of the window while it was driving it would have been just as tragic for the dog. It is a little difficult to tell how badly the man was "savaged" from the article as well. I don't fault the dog for its reaction, only the person for not protecting their dog. The article said the dog is fine with children and animals and seems to be a family pet so it is obviously not viciously savaging anything in front of its nose....

I would not automatically put my dog down if it attacked somebody because they were acting aggressively. I might, if the dog killed that person or if the person was a child, but not just because my dog attempts to protect me, even if not a finger was actually laid on me. I agree with Tralee.

Well they need to make a start somewhere. I would like to see sales of ALL live animals i n pet shops banned. Probably even fish, mostly because of impulse buying.

This is true and also despicable. Many dogs become dangerous from this sort of treatment in the first place. Obviously the dangerous dog laws themselves as less than well thought out. HOWEVER as far as I am aware a dog needs to be supplied bedding to be kept humanely. At least in a pound or kennel it does. I really hope this applies to "dangerous" dogs as well. They are still animals and should not suffer needlessly especially over something as simple as bedidng!

It sounds to me as though they will be selling/adopting out shelter animals. So not buying any pups of any breeders? I could be wrong ETA: What individuals? Individual pet shops or individual members of the public?

Yea, that is what I was getting at but the coroner did not mention that the dog was kept chained (either because they did not think it was important, or because they didn't notice any evidence thereof or because they did not want to mention anything that might undermine their reasoning of the breed being the one and only reason that this dog did what it did) so I refrained from drawing this conclusion publicly. Either way the ulcerations of the dog were completely ignored and dismissed and so were the circumstances the dog was kept in. Disgusting.

Maybe the circumstances in which dogs are kept should also be subject to evaluation. In the Ayen Chol case there was direct access from the backyard into the garage and no door. The only thing between the backyard and the street was the garage door so unless the dog was kept chained it had access to the street each time the garage door opened and a vehicle entered or left. Not ideal in my opinion and neither is chaining a dog permanently....

I disagree, I think all owners should face THE SAME penalties if their dog commits an offense. Otherwise, when Chopper the Lab kills a child, his owner gets a fine. When Billy the Bully kills a child in the same circumstances, his owner goes to jail. Are both children not EQUALLY DEAD? So should both owners not be EQUALLY punished? The circumstances surrounding the death should be of importance as well I believe so they need to be taken into consideration. But say both dogs were off leash in an on leash area and both charged a group of playing children and both bit a child in the group repeatedly until it died, the same punishment should apply to both owners! And if the punishment was jail I would do a happy jig on the day of the conviction and share the news far and wide so that people would finally realize that their dogs' actions could have serious consequences for them!

You are a little late, she is already spayed now :)

Because then it wouldn't be goading people into arguing with this person

What are BSL laws in QLD? Maybe bull terriers are on the list? Or maybe the dog was indeed declared dangerous beforehand, in which case he should have been muzzled. In any case he should have been restrained inside the car (at least dogs have to be restrained in cars in NSW) and he would have been unable to jump out of the window if the owner had restrained him. Either way I think the owner is at fault. I think most dogs who are going to defend their owner will not wait for a physical attack, they will react to aggressive body language.

Wow. I hope the dog is not destroyed for doing what dogs were bred to do for a long, long time!

He actually growls on contact with his testicles/butt. At some stage it did cross my mind that maybe he has a physical problem, but he seems very healthy and gets vaccinated yearly and regularly receives all other health care as well (worming, flea treatments when necessary, sees the vet for things like torn nails etc). As far as I can remember he has been to the vet at least a handfull of times each year. OH said he was going to bring it up next time we are there but I don't think he ever did. The "lounge incident" happened after OH sat down on the lounge next to him and accidentally touched or came too close to his hind end, now that I think about it. He growled and OH asked him to get off the lounge and go to his bed. The dog then growled louder/more seriously and its hard to say exactly what happened next, I wasn't looking. When I looked up the dog was on the lounge on his hind legs and OH had him pinned against the wall by the scruff of the neck/throat to stop himself being bitten...