BlackJaq

Maybe they should increase fines and make them payable to the government then. I bet the person who has to pay the bill doesn't care if it was legal fees or fines, either way they have to pay up or declare themselves bankrupt.

Damn I just lost my whole post somehow.. Anywhoooo I was basically saying that I wish I'd known about the AWL beforehand but it's too late now. I am thinking (hoping?) that I can see a minuscule change in the skinnier of the two horses, hopefully good improvements will soon become apparent, otherwise I will keep calling. I do suspect that those horses are probably older and there is another cow in fat condition on the property (as well as a dead one, which went down one morning when I drove past and was dead by the time I drove back, had never noticed the critters on that place before that day so not sure what condition the cow was in prior to its death, it was impossible to say once it was down.. wonder if the RSPCA noticed and commented on the carcass?), but that is no reason not to give them additional feed if they need it. Last year around this time when we had better pasture about and they were in better condition than now, so I doubt this is the best condition they could be in at this time. As to horses that look like walking coat hangers, I honestly doubt that those animals are having a good quality of life but cannot really comment without having seen them. Vets will say many things when there is money to be made or customers to be pleased so I would not necessarily rely on their judgement when an animal is in such poor condition but they say it's all cool anyways

The skinnier horse is a one on the Henneke scale, that is a one out of nine, it is pretty much a walking rack of ribs. Old horses do not generally look skeletal if they are well cared for... I do not know the owners and it is a rural area, so you can't just drive up people's driveways since there are locked gates and I do not even know where their house is. An animal does not just get this skinny because it is old, medical issues and chronic pain make an animal this skinny and should be either dealt with or the animal should be humanely euthanized. I would not mind if the owner decided that they either cannot afford vet care and food or didn't want to to cough it up for other reasons as long as they put the poor animal out of its misery. Sometimes it is quality over quantity in my opinion. I will probably call again in a few weeks if I see no improvement. Hopefully they will improve by then though ETA: I am slightly amused whenever somebody says something along the lines of "have you contacted the owners" when there is a perceived welfare issue with an animal. I don't know what people are like in the rest of this country but around here anybody who sticks their nose in other people's business is not very popular. I have animals of my own and I do not need to make them a target for retaliation by whatever means this person may or may not deem necessary...

Oh, right, I assume the dogs are chained then, not locked inside the 44 gallon drum?

I thought I would post here since a lot of DOLers seem to have experience with the RSPCA, positive and negative. About 4 weeks ago I made a report to the RSPCA about 2 horses, one of which was in extremely poor condition, the other one was not as bad but getting there. My area has not had much rain this year and even last year and the year before, when we had plenty, those two horses were not looking that good, although not bad enough that I would feel it was necessary or even helpful to report them. So, the lady on the phone told me somebody would be in touch in about a month to let me know what happened... Yesterday I drove past and the only thing that seems to have changed is that instead of being locked in the one pasture, the horses now appear to have the run of several pastures, all equally as grazed off as their first. Obviously I cannot tell from looking at them whether they are being hand fed or wormed or seeing a vet etc but I cannot see any change in condition so far. I have previously had horses arrive here in very poor condition and made the experience that they will start to gain weight rapidly once their teeth are done, worms dealt with and many small meals are fed each day. Obviously this only works if there is no other underlying condition. Anyways, today I called the RSPCA with my case number to see if contact had been made with the owner and the lady on the phone told me yes, there has been contact made and all she can tell me is that it is "under investigation". They will not be able to tell me anything else because of the privacy act, which is fair enough, however I will not sit by and watch these horses die. The lady also said that usually they do not call you back to tell you what happened, which made me wonder why the first lady said they would? So, what I am wondering now is that other people who have made reports seem to know the outcome of their report. They either say the RSPCA told them "their hands are tied" for various reasons (food on premises or whatever) or they were told what steps the owners/RSPCA were taking to improve conditions. What have your experiences been so far? Is it true they cannot say anything? If so, how can anybody know when to re-report animals? Or are you expected to simply forget about them once the report was made as it is now in somebody else's hands?

I for one am glad they slapped the owner with a noteworthy fine. Wish it happened more often, hitting them in the wallet is the only way to make those kind of people care. If the government wants to fund raise, maybe they should concentrate on these kind of cases, rather than inventing new taxes and raising old ones to get back into the black....

I'm thinking this is it? http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/187882-foodbedding-donations-please/

From the same link: Not sure if that means dogs were kept in 44 gallon drums on this property or what? If so I would not exactly call this "good care"...

There is a list of breeds in this link: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader/south-east/fine-for-tooradin-knackerys-illegal-puppy-farm-but-owner-to-keep-own-dogs/story-fngnvmhm-1226588279297

Oh ok I think I found it :)

Is that thread still around?

I don't think people should be expecting to get a return from their pet?? It is a one off investment, as you said + plus running costs thereafter. When was the last time your car or furniture gave birth to a litter for you to sell on? They can also require maintenance, just like a pet. Yet nobody would tell the retailer to charge less because you will not see a return from your couch?? By all means, don't buy a luxury "item", like a $3500 Frenchie or a $3500 couch if you do not want to pay that price or cannot afford it but don't expect people to drop their prices because you won't be making money off them :p Sorry but I find this argument extremely bizarre

I am glad to hear that working homes may be given preference (or a helping hand due to a slightly reduced price) by some breeders. Is this something many breeders do? I am also curious, what percentage of pups tend to go to working homes vs. pets (I guess this would depend a lot on breed as well)

I've thought about this a lot. The average person just wants a dog of a look that appeals to them, but most do NOT want the breed specific temperament to go with it. Most want a friendly dog, pretty much typical lab temperament, but different look. What I think we are going to end up with, eventually, is a lot of different "looks" to choose from (looks = breeds) but pretty much one universal temperament. The reason I say this is because a lot of working temperaments are simply not suitable as pets for the average pet owner. A rapidly shrinking number of dogs actually get to do the job they were initially intended for. Really, there is no reason to keep breeding for those correct (but not suitable to be pets only) temperaments when you run out of homes to place puppies in. It is sad, and I hate the idea, but with the way dog ownership, BSL and the public mind are developing, it seems only a matter of time to me. That being said, I think selection purely for show purposes, rather than working ability (let's face it, most dogs are not tested for the working ability the breed initially had, before breeding) are already causing some poor (i.e. overly aggressive, nervous, timid etc) temperaments. There is no way to properly select for a working temperament when the dog does not actually do the work and pass working tests. *Dons flame suit* lol

I guess it depends whether the dog is being territorial or prey driven. A strongly territorial dog may attack a child in the course of "defending" his territory and may also attack a rabbit, cat or any other animal who enters his territory. This is separate from prey drive though. I have never personally met a dog who considered children prey but have heard of such things, generally breeds such as Huskies or Malamutes are mentioned in these instances, I am not sure why and have no documentation to verify or deny those stories. ETA: It goes without saying that particularly prey driven dogs should not be left unattended with babies and toddlers especially and should be very closely supervised at all times. Infants of all species can, in my opinion, incite some prey drive due to wierd noises, clumsy movements and generally being really different from adults or even older children of the same species. Young dogs and puppies may also find it more difficult to differentiate between what is acceptable prey and what is not and should be watched very closely.

My Wei obviously has a very strong prey drive and seems to classify some small noisy puppies as "prey". I have not had any issues with adult dogs, even small ones, it might be the noises and clumsy way of moving and only applies to very small puppies. Large breed puppies are clearly dogs to her. She grew up with a cat and has not to date caught any cats that weren't "her cat" so I am unsure but I suspect she would attempt to retrieve them and possibly kill them if they resisted. I keep a very close eye on her and she is not allowed to chase anything as we are trying to get into real hunting so sight chases would be bad for tracking work. She has not caught any rabbits or other small critters except my (tame and docile) rooster. She caught him twice and plucked him a bit but he was fine both times and I still have him. She has lived alongside him and my other birds for a long time now and has excellent self control with anything except very young birds with baby voices. She doesn't like children but it does not appear to be prey related to me, they are too noisy and do not respect her space and so she has no time for them. I think prey drive and aggression are two separate issues and human aggression is a whole different ball game again. I think my dog can control her prey drive perfectly fine as long as she feels that I am watching and in control. If given the ok she is very determined to get to whatever she was ok'ed to get. After a successful chase (followed by a retrieve or whatever) she does not show any signs of aggression, redirected or otherwise. She has accidentally caught and throttled a wallaby before, which was hidden in the bushes right next to our front gate. After it was dead she was the same dog as before, no issue with the cat and the birds and very relaxed. It was just prey drive and "her job" to her. Obviously I did not mean for her to go and grab the local wildlife and throttle it but there was no way I could have known it was there and there was no chase, she just jumped straight on it and it was dead about a minute later without a struggle that I could see. Wallaby, cat, rabbit or whatever the prey, I don't see how this could translate into human aggression unless the dog saw humans as prey, which seems unlikely

Exactly! Now we are talking!

Wow that German GSD made me sad. No wonder people are starting to look to the Malinios for police work and such, how can a dog like that be expected to work day in day out. They look a little strange to me when in motion as well, a bit like they are continuously trying to sweep the floor behind them with their tail...

Ah, I have found this year's Weim video now! There were some nice dogs but some of them I thought were a little funny looking with either tiny looking hips or shoulders. I also spotted one or two with what I would almost call pigeon chests lol At least they did not display the slinky sort of gait that some of the more extreme GSDs seem to have. Maybe the sloping back was just the way the dog was standing or maybe her legs are a little short. What I also noticed, although it is not technically a conformation issue, that some seem to have been docked extremely short for the breed, almost a doberman type stump. Tradionally the breed only had about a third of the tail removed, most of these dogs only seem to have about a third left instead....

Yes, I was wondering about the greyhound, too but refrained from commenting since it is not my breed lol

I am not deciding anything, I was simply wondering. And maybe a little concerned.. Anything is possible when they are allowed to breed with a non breed standard colour :p ETA: It says: "0 Clips Available" For Weimaraners

I was not overly impressed with the Weimaraner, maybe it was the picture but the hind end seemed somewhat.. um.. weak to me. Also not liking how the back seemed to slope downwards but that could be the way they are trying to present the back legs? I am wondering if they are trying to head them into the same direction as the GSD actually

Because of that magical hybrid vigour they all have! Didn't you know?? :laugh:

Wow that is great info, thanks RallyValley!

Awesome, thank You! (still waiting for my account to be activated lol)