BlackJaq

No liver is a base colour. Dilute liver gives you Weimaraner grey/brown. Dilute black gives you blue. I think Maremmas might be genetically EE, not sure what their dilute colour would be? There was a thread on this somewhere with links to colour DNA webites... ETA: Would be interesting to see this dog as an adult, I don't think I have seen a liver dog with a coat this shade before, the closest that comes to my mind would be red merle dogs, but they are not solid like this? Although the patches in that colour tend to change a bit within the first few months of life, hence seeing the dog as an adult might be interesting...

That Maremma has blue eyes and indeed, it appears to have liver skin. In my mind this seem to make pure breed status somewhat questionable, but not impossible, since liver is recessive... Both parents must have carried it. Makes the previous violent reaction to the attempts to distinguish between liver skin and badly pigmented black skin look a bit silly, no?

Alas, yes. I can't seem to help it. Either way I am free to say so if that is what I think :) Your theory is plausible, too. I guess we'll probably never know.

Just getting back to the colour of the pigment, that dog CLEARLY has black pigment around it eyes, lips and nose, NOT red/liver. I realize I have been blocked but maybe others may be reading this thread and are capable of recognizing a liver dog from a black pigmented one, pink nose or no...

Because good things are coming her way now that she has the nation's attention and pity?I know it sounds bad but I cannot fathom another reason for going back there? I thought it was pretty low to be filming the dog and putting it on national television as well and on the video it didn't appear as the slavering beast she would have us think it was? It kept its distance and was alarm barking a little but it wasn't exactly attempting to scale the fence to get to the other poodle or "throwing itself against the fence"... Surely they would have shown the footage if it acted that way at all. I would expect most dogs to react pretty strongly if something (regardless of what it actually was) came through a gap in their fence, especially when they cannot see through the fence. I do hope the owners fix that fence though.

I think the answer to that, Raz, is that it's the RSPCA and they don't have to justify anything. Also "rehabilitate" and "regain their trust" sounds better than "we will raise these pups with sufficient socialization, appropriate nutrition and proper health care just as an ethical registered breeder would" and the emotional drivel is where most of their donations come from, I imagine. Joe Public reads this article and there will be tears of compassion brimming in his eyes and wads of cash spilling from his wallet, it will never even occur to him to question what is written :p

So an undulating lip (which causes no medical issues that I can see) is a fault of the same severity as a lack of pigment which can cause various skin issues and diseases? Interesting. Scientist indeed.

She said that amount included PTS and whatever treatment the dog may have received before PTS (including emergency consult and such I imagine)

This. There is a genetic difference between LIVER pigment and a fading black nose, which may appear pink. Surely a "breeder" should know at least basic colour genetics, especially where their own breed is concerned

Yes obviously. I thought you may be inferring that no dogs with liver pigment should be bred, regardless of breed. Also, if we go by what Tralee has been saying, Maremmas are not supposed to be left on their own for such long periods of time ;) In any case, they may be suffering from too little pigmentation, but if the nose is genuinely liver you would have to question the pure bred status of the dog for the reason I have previously stated. The breed generally has a black nose, this would override the gene for liver pigmentation unless there were two liver copies in that dog... The liver pigmentation also influences the coat colour as well as the eye colour, it does not leave the nose to stand liver alone.

I hope you are referring to Maremmas only, since some breeds are liver only; Weimaraners are dd, which is dilute liver. Any other colour is a disqualifying fault. Also, this colour is recessive so any other colour bespeaks another breed's influence (i.e. the dog is a mixed breed). Weimaraners can have issues with sun burn in Australia and it is definitely a thing to keep an eye one and sunscreen may become necessary. Not at all. The Maremma is not a Pointer This response makes no sense? No pure bred Maremma should ever have a liver nose as liver is a recessive colour. Even a first generation mixed breed Maremma should not be able to be liver as two copies of the colour gene are needed.

If the nose is liver the dog's coat will be liver, too, not white (is it EE?)

We have a bed from Lyrebird Furniture.. Apparently I got a little over-excited with the size but Foxy seems ok with that lol http://www.lyrebirdpetfurniture.net/beds.html Foxy is close to 30 kg but I'm sure they can make it as large as you need. We bought a size XL for $190 + $90 for the pillow (which is very thick and well stuffed). I bought a bunch of cheap doona cover sets to use as "pillow cases" so I can wash them regularly lol ETA: They are also very sturdy, as you can see ours holds about 90kg without issue ;)

What do breeders generally look for in a potential working home? :) ETA: Oh, my bad, that is a little off the current discussion topic, please continue

Here is the video with the gap: It does not seem likely to me that the Amstaff could have fit his muzzle through but without the dog attempting it while being filmed/videoed it is impossible to be sure. I also think that this may be the backyard in fact, despite bordering on the public foot path. As I said in the other thread, not everybody has the luxury of having a backyard away from public foot paths.

Not sure what your post is supposed to express? Somebody had a horse of poor temperament? So what, it happens with all animals and people, too, for that matter. I am not advocating for any new laws so I am not sure what your point is here?

I have to say I am enjoying this discussion a lot especially since I have been looking into getting an LGD to guard my various types of poultry. It is good to read owner experiences re: management with strangers/visitors and such

If the Western world has in fact managed to creat a new strain, then SHAME ON US !!!!! Um Italy is not exactly a third world country.. They are a member of the EU and reasonably civilized..... And from a traditional point of view (or map making) they are more of a Western country than the US and Australia combined......

I wonder if they would have honoured her wish if she had asked for her children to be put down and added to her coffin?

I think this is probably a false distinction. Predatory behaviour is predatory behaviour. A real predator does not need to make a clean kill. It just needs to kill. If the prey gets mauled so be it. Predatory behaviour in dogs has surely been terribly messed with so that in some cases it is barely recognisable or highly stylised, but let's not lose sight of its original purpose, which is obviously to kill things so they can be eaten. I think that you are conflating artificial selection with natural selection. We can talk all we like about what kind of predatory behaviour a dog ideally displays, but it doesn't mean those behaviours are the only ones that can be called predatory. So you're saying an extremely ball obsessed dog = an aggressive dog? Again, I believe that an animal will do what it deems necessary to stop the prey getting away. Do you feel that every prey driven dog is dangerous and may maul children at random?

Kirty, Weimaraners were originally bred to hunt large game like deer or pigs (by physically grabbing and holding, and killing if possible, the "ideal" way to kill large or resisting prey is by throttling it btw)and she has taken down a wallaby and killed it, too. The reason she killed it was because it resisted, not because she was aggressive. If the wallaby had surrendered like the rooster did, she would have attempted to retrieve it (again, this was an accident, I did not want her to kill a Wallaby obviously). So, yes, she will kill an animal, if she deems it necessary, but not out of aggression but because it resists or is likely to escape if she doesn't. This makes her an efficient hunting dog but not an aggressive one. What I am trying to explain is that prey drive does not really have anything to do with aggression, they are two separate things. An animal (or child) may be killed as a result of the prey drive (either by accidentally breaking the neck etc or because the dog deems it necessary to make the kill to secure the prey) but if a dog mauls an animal (or child) beyond what is necessary to secure the prey then that is what I would call aggression. A dog with a strong prey drive may react strongly to a ball being thrown, or a rabbit running past, but I do not find this to be aggression-related at all. I think K9 pro had an explanation of the different drives on their website, they can probably explain better than I... ETA: A lot of people who either lack the skill or knowledge to train a dog to do a specific job (for example Schutzhund, Working Gun Dog, Pig Hunting Dog etc) will choose an aggressive dog, in an attempt to create a behaviour that is usually created by training without the proper know-how. This is not a true representation of the behaviour, it generally creates a fear biting, potentially dangerous dog, instead of a competent and confident working companion. The difference is huge, believe me. And a lot of average pig dog owners do not necessarily have the know-how, if you get what I mean...

I think deep down almost everybody believe their dog will never be happy if they disappear. Which I think is grossly out of proportion to the number of dogs who would actually not cope without the owner. Dogs go through rescue, pounds and sale/rehoming all the time. Maybe we should do as they did in old Egypt and have all our animals and partners killed to be buried with us along with all our money and slaves...

No. My dog has a very high prey drive but will deliver a bird or rabbit to hand without scrunching it. She grabs it without the intent to "damage" it. Not sure where aggression fits in here? ETA: She will deliver a live bird alive for me to kill if possible. She has, in fact, retrieved my rooster several times without harming him (my fault for not paying enough attention, not on purpose)

Wow they keep telling us how much it costs to train one of those bloody dogs and then they let someone go and kill a 5 year old, healthy, fully trained guide dog? I do hope this lady actually paid for that dog herself and did not hold a community fundraiser or whatever to be able to afford him. Good on the community for telling these d*ckheads what they think about this.

Animal aggression can become human aggression if the dogs consider the human as prey. It can happen. It has happened. Who can forget this one: Death of Tyra Kuehne When not well socialised and used for this kind of hunting, dogs may confuse children with prey. I know that many pig hunting dogs are family dogs but the assumption that all such dogs are safe with children could be a dangerous one. The article seems to describe HA dogs to me, they have bailed up and attacked other humans (adults not only children) so the prey drive argument is kind of invalid. Somebody also said the girl had a dead chicken to feed to them? I think there were more circumstances at play there.... And in my opinion, human aggression, dog aggression and prey drive are three different pairs of shoes. Prey drive does not equal aggression.