BlackJaq

Are the legislators taking any feedback from the community?

Ya so anyway, whoever brought up that Bull Arabs might be likely to be considered for the additions is probably not too wrong. If I remember correctly the NSW legislation already considers dogs used for hunting large game to be "dangerous" and needing to be muzzled in public etc. I guess it is only a matter of time until Bull Arabs become representative of those dogs, being the only breed specifically intended for pigging in Australia (most others are mixes of various breeds and a lot harder to sweep up all at once)

RSPCA here never supported it. RSPCA nationally don't support it now. Neither do the AVA. Neither do the ANKC. Seems to me that the best way forward is to start mustering opposition from the key organisations, rather than scaring the shite out of individual pet owners. We also need intel as to what breeds might be being "considered". Who wants to bet their knickers that the Bull Mastiff is on top of their list, closely followed by anything "Bull" in the title. Perhaps some of the breeds previously affected ?GSD, Dobe and such. What non KC breeds do people believe might be in question here? German Coolies? Don't be ridiculous, of course they are talking KC breeds. And since the Italian BSL has already been mentioned, poodles were in it as well. So much for your adorable cutie pie breeds not being affected. Dachshunde, too.

That is about what I paid as well....... I never vaccinate for KC and ours only had it once so far, several years ago. If I had to board them I would get it done but only as it is a requirement. Anyway, I have now received a call from the vet who took the blood and she told me the numbers on the phone but I forget exactly what they were.. She was covered for both parvo (with high levels) and distemper (a lot lower levels but still covered). Hopefully I will get the written copy shortly so I can post actual numbers. As it stands atm I will not be re-vaccinating next year, only titre, unless levels are too low for some reason. My vet seemed a little concerned at the much lower distemper levels but when I said that it seems to be common as exposure is less she agreed and it seemed to kind of flick on the light switch :p Overall this experience has really shaken my confidence in this clinic and I will not be discussing vaccination with them any more. I will look into going to Canberra for Titres next year and I will ask them to stop sending me vaccination reminders as well.... I'm a bit sorry I chose to vaccinate anyway now but I guess I am lucky not to have a dog with vaccination reactions and what's done is done, so....

What happened to the other dog? I'm just curious because I see you had another blue Staffy a few years ago and you only seem to have the one puppy now?

Yes farm stores generally sell syringes and needles, especially if they keep horse and/or greyhound stuff.. I would consult with a vet but I imagine the kind of needle you use to give horses penicillin would be a good size.

One has to wonder if the new standards are completely based upon this plastic dog statue.. It would be funny if it wasn't so serious for everybody affected by BSL

If the puppy is blue then bald patches could be from Colour Dilution Alopecia. It's pretty common in Staffies. http://knightwoodoak-staffies.over-blog.com/pages/Color_Dilution_Alopecia-1291762.html

Not sure if this has been posted yet... http://www.sheepbloke.com.au/default.asp?cid=28154&rid=1353&menuid=1353 Does that look familiar? What a joke.

If they put the onus of proof on the owner there will be no more expensive court cases as nobody with a mutt is going to be able to prove what it is.

Hi guys :) Several points have been raised that I have already mentioned previously.. I do not want anymore cats, the current one is the last one ;) Also I find that the cat will only really bother to go catch something if he is hungry and then he will mostly go down the back to get a rabbit. He was from semi feral farm stock (and is neutered). I specifically wanted a dog instead of more cats, as I can at least confine the dog to a fenced in area and so wildlife outside this area is safe. A dog would also be a good day time companion for my OH (taking barn kitties to work would probably not work out that well). Rescue is definitely a good idea but I was hoping for a puppy from known stock as OH seems to bond easier to a puppy than an already grown adult. If rescue was the only option (or a suitable dog of whatever age came along) I would definitely consider it. I am not about to jump out and try to find a dog tomorrow, just looking into options at this point so I am glad for any breed or alternative mentioned. I have found snake skins around the place and they seem to have zero impact on the rodents. Neither does cat or fox scat. Breed does not have to be a Terrier (hence I was considering a Whippet or similar and asking questions in this direction) but Terriers are what was (and in some places still is) commonly used in this role, hence my asking about Terriers. I will certainly consider other breeds. I have had a German Coolie before and she was definitely not a ratter. High intensity herding dog, yes. But ratter, no, not unless you count staring rats down and trying to direct where they are going. I am hoping a Terrier (or similar small breed) won't be jumping quite as high as a Coolie since my girl would easily clear 8 ft fences. If necessary I would install rollers on a top wire on our fence to stop a Terrier jumping over but I would have thought chicken wire at 1.10m + smooth wire on top would be too high for most Terriers. I could be wrong. Adding chicken mesh on the bottom to stop digging (as you do with foxes) would not be a problem. The poultry area is set up to contain even small poultry (so all mesh is about chicken wire size and there is ballast under gates to ensure a snug fit). Sheds come off this area and are colourbond and mesh so a dog door would be installed and the dog should be unable to leave the shed except through the dog door. Are there other common means that a Terrier might escape? I'm sure plenty of people manage to keep in their Terriers but better safe than sorry! I don't think going to work with OH during the day would be overly exhausting, our other dogs simply sleep most of the day (especially in the vehicles) and occasionally walk from one area to another or whatever. It's not like they will be doing anything overly exciting all day long. Some exercise and play time would have to take place during the day to help distract the dog from any destructive urges but I am sure there will still be plenty of time to sleep more at night, there would have to be a LOT of rats to keep going non stop all night and besides, Terriers are generally fairly high energy as far as I know. I do already have a dog I use for gundog work, so I am hoping that similar training concepts would apply re. obedience, maybe some tricks and perhaps some basic retrieving. Obviously working underground would take extra training and I would certainly allow for this. Dogmad, would you generally not recommend a Terrier to somebody who has no previous Terrier experience or just not for a working home? With Dachies I would be concerned about back injury potential in show stock but have never had one so I have no direct experiences, only personal "prejudice" to go by. Persephone I am not sure how you do "not" leave a small dog "on duty" at night, short of crating it. Unfortunately there is always a risk in working dogs, especially when they are in "work mode" and accidents can happen at any time, day or night. Plenty of gundogs spear themselves of branches whilst hunting and I'm sure if the dogs could choose between being crated or "hunting" they would probably choose hunting. I seem to get a vibe that you do not approve of Terriers doing what Terriers do. Or is it only an issue at night? As I said, I already have a working gun dog who learnt to live with our poultry and other stock just fine despite high prey drive but regardless, the poultry are safely locked away at night when the dog would be in the area and during the day the dog is likely to be either not home (i.e. with OH at work) or in the house/houseyard, again without poultry. I guess the dog might decide that chickens look just delish and not let me dissuade it from trying to escape and eat them, in which case day time at home would be mostly inside time and most outdoor off leash time at home would be at night when poultry is not available for snackage. We have and do hunt and kill feral cats as well as foxes. I'm sure my cat will realize quickly that the dog means business, he is dog savvy and will not enter the kennel of the one cat unfriendly dog we have even when the dog is not in that kennel at the time (not the Wei btw). Again, I am hoping to find a peaceful resolution (involving training) just like we did with our Weimaraner but if not then we can work with that. I am not sure why anybody would get a Terrier and not expect it to kill stuff but I am hoping that a dog with a job, or several jobs, will be perhaps more satisfied with his life than a pet only dog and not feel the need to kill everything and anything within sight. It is good to read that some people have found a satisfied Terrier to not be yappy like the ones you see in a lot of back yards in town who never leave their little patch of dirt. I have made the experience with my Weimaraner, that a dog with a busy and interesting life is a lot less likely to fit the stereotype of the breed that many people have in their mind. Snakes are still a topic I feel concerned about.. I have had somebody tell me to lay bird netting along the perimeter of the fence to stop snakes entering an area.. Any idea if this works?

I have recently met a guy who breeds Jagd Terrier in Australia.. I don't imagine anybody here would know much about them? Though I guess they are bred more for fox and pig hunting than ratting per se

I have had a quick google of Fox Terriers (standard smooth) but most of the info is obviously aimed at pet people. I had more luck on working info in German hunting forums and am still looking. They sound quite hardy and seem to have retained a strong will to hunt despite pet breeding. I would like to speak with some breeders and get opinions on how much exercise they would need to stop them becoming destructive. Any dog we might use in this fashion should be able to cope over night without ripping the place apart, given they get enough exercise during the day while out and about. Educating a Bauhund is pretty time intensive, just like any kind of hunting dog but I have to say I find the prospect very tempting... Obviously my Weimaraner does not find into the fox burrows and we can only hunt them above ground in our current situation!

I don't know much about them, what do you think their outdoor suitability and potential to be on their own over night would be? ETA: We might even have some work for an earth dog in genuine fox hunting if we could found a suitable dog. Obviously the dog would have to be sharp and high prey drive, a soft dog would probably not be able to drive a fox out into the guns

The Tenterfield sounds very interesting.. I suspect that many good ratting breeds might no longer be independent or hardy enough to live outdoors 24/7, at least the show lines perhaps... I refuse to buy a BYB one though so I have to wonder what my chances are for a breeder to be willing to sell into an "outdoor working home" rather than a cushy indoor lifestyle lol

I think this kinda puts a crimp in the carpet snake idea :/

Just wanted to say that I am happy for my dog to growl at a child if this response is reasonable. It beats lunging for the child's throat as a first warning hands down. If a child does not react to various signals given by the dog, warning it to back off then I think a dog is perfectly within its rights to growl at the child and it is the supervising adult's fault that it went that far in the first place. No dog should have to tolerate all the shit a child might decide to dish out, children can be not only ignorant and oblivious, but also plain out cruel and not all dogs are going to like children in their face, staring in their eyes while pulling their whiskers.

That is an interesting idea but what kind of fencing would you need to contain it? And will the local snakes see it as an intruder and attack it? That is a serious question btw

Hi pers, unfortunately I won't ave too much time on my hands during the day to go rat hunting, hence I was hoping to find a dog to do the job on their own without a human handler present. Night time was mostly a convenience thing as poultry are safely locked away then. Snakes are a big problem in any scenario I can think of and they are part of the reason I would like rodents kept as short as possible. I am not sure how to deal with the snake issue but I would have thought any dog who is outside, especially at night during the summer, would be in danger, including the LGDs? ETA: I am sure a ratter would get better at his job as he matures, something I cannot say of the traps at least. A cat will play with rodents also. We have a cat but he prefers to eat rabbits and has made no impact on rodents that I can tell. I would really like to get away from bait and I do not want any more cats since they kill all sorts of wildlife as well. At least a dog will be confined in a fenced in area and cannot climb trees (most of the time). We will not get any more cats once the current one passes

Whippets had crossed my mind but I was a little concerned about broken legs etc.. Especially when chasing vermin in sheds with obstacles... I have read several times now that people's whippets and even greyhounds had broken bones after chasing things and not looking where they were going and colliding with fences and such.. Do you think that would be a problem? We have some Whippies in agility (hehe) and they are lovely, nice and quiet, laid back.. Both are BYB but bred as a pet and not interested in catching things overly much, the other is "hunting" bred and quite a bit taller (probably there is something else in there) and more prey driven. Both look terribly fragile though. I like that they are not hyper like a lot of terriers though. Would sleeping outside mostly be a problem due to being away from their people or mostly due to weather conditions? As I said there will be access to all the shedding, including hay shed and I'm sure we could set up a bedding area or a dog house additionally? I've never had a sight hound before either so any more info would be appreciated (personally I would favor a sight hound over a terrier but was afraid the risk of injury might be greater?)

This dog needs to be seen by a decent behaviorist. All sorts of things can make a dog turn on their handler and it is not as uncommon as some people seem to think (probably some breeds are more prone to it than others). I don't think you can tell whether the dog is "vicious" just from the article, most people are completely ignorant of the signals their dogs give them and feel that attacks happen "out of the blue" or whatever. However, continuing to have it in public and without a muzzle on is just deliberately putting others in danger.

Oooh I forgot to say, if there is a breed that is less yappy I would prefer that, too, although what I know of Terriers so far makes that seem unlikely... Would love to be corrected if I'm wrong!

Haha no all poultry gets locked away at night, hence the dog would be with the people during the day and not near the poultry area lol I don't know much about JRT except there are heaps BYB bred everywhere.. I will go have a read of the breed thread OH was interested in a Miniature Pinscher but I'm guessing they would be one of the more difficult breeds? So you guys think a JRT would be happy to sleep outdoors then?

I have used the search function but didn't get much.. I realize we are mostly a show/pet forum but I'm hoping some people on here might know a bit about ratters anyway? Basically I have been playing with the idea of rat control around the shedding and poultry area and I really don't like putting out bait. I'm not having much luck with live traps at all and kill traps only catch one rat at a time and I have found that often the rat does not die immediately, instead dragging the trap all over the place and bleeding everywhere before finally dying. Putting them down if I find them still alive is NOT pleasant, the rat is usually caught across the head or back and is pretty pissed off and not nice to get out of there... I have been resorting to drowning them still in the trap but I don't think drowning is a very humane death either.... So, the other day I was watching a vid about a pack of ratting terriers cleaning up a hay shed and I thought somebody here could advise me on ratting breeds and how to best utilize them. I am guessing they don't need to have a handler nearby telling them to kill rats? Our situation would mean the dog would be mostly a pet during the day, coming inside the house and probably going to work with OH (he's been wanting a compact sized dog to ride with him in his truck during the day, with air con obviously) but staying outside in a fenced in area with access to the shedding and general poultry area at night. Would that be a workable situation? Is the dog likely to want to be inside at night or is it dependent on what the dog is used to? I have house dogs as well as an outdoor working LGD (and there will be more in the foreseeable future), so we already have several dogs. Some of them do agility etc but I honestly don't think I would have enough time to take another dog to agility lessons. We are certainly not dog novices but I realize terriers are generally not easy and I have never owned one, but I would certainly appreciate recommendations for the easiest breed/s that would be suitable. I honestly don't need another pet dog, so a dog who is happy with generally being around people during the day and happy to work on its own at night would be ideal (if there is such a breed?). A short coat is my preference and obviously a small size would be good, too. Any and all advice would be appreciated.

I might look into doing all our dogs in Canberra next year then.. Can somebody PM me details for her please? I am hoping that I will be able to get the results in writing and get some advice on the meaning on here as I don't have much faith in my clinic knowing much about it...