BlackJaq

Haha have you not yet realized that you are most likely arguing with ether a Mark or Moorook supporter? Of course they are outraged that somebody dares vent the dirty laundry online and that some people don't swallow the crap MA tries to feed everyone who reads his page. Not that Moorook supporters or MA groupies ever harassed anyone online!

I did and I got bit (by a SWF btw). That's just how it goes eh

Still kinda wondering how many pet staffies you'd have to steal to get one suitable to fight... Have any of the dogs been recovered in a fighting situation? Have any rings been busted? Anybody been charged? This sounds like urban legend to me and unless there is some actual proof of where the dogs end up (a dog can escape and be can be mauled whilst out and about and often they will try to return home if hurt, so might actually end up in the front yard) then I don't think especially police officers should be helping to spread rumours (if there is prove then I apologize but I doubt it)

How do you know all those dogs were stolen and didn't simply get out?

I have noticed more on a global front that especially gun dog training is very strong on Ecollar work more than any other discipline it seems? I think it is because it is faster. A lot faster usually. And some trainers just cannot or will not achieve the same level of performance without it. That does not mean it cannot be done but some bad habits are nearly impossible to correct without it once they are allowed to develop (for example refusing to recall after starting to chase an animal once the dog has been on serious hunts and knows how much satisfaction catching and retrieving can bring). Note I said nearly. Obviously it depends on the dog and the human and the training but a quick zap can be the easiest and most efficient way. Either way, I cannot use one even if I wanted to because they are illegal in NSW. Gun dog people are not the only ones who use them either, in the US there seem to be some obedience clubs very big on them, same with bite sports, too, I believe (I am not judging either way because like any tool, they can be very helpful or very harmful depending on the handler)

Have been wondering what is happening over there now (down there?) Any news on the Moorook situation? Lol at the lead fart

Love hotwire, kept people away from my horse when we were still living in town, too!

That is great! Now all we need is some brain bleach for the politicians to make them a bit more open minded lol :laugh:

Hm well now that guns are involved I guess everyone's pants are on fire, what with the "war on (illegal) guns" and bikies and all that Hopefully somebody will be caught over it, idiots like this spoil things for every other law abiding gun owners.

The coroner's attitude seemed to be that the dog was a pit bull (at 40kg mind you), therefore it's totally normal for pit bulls to be happy friendly dogs one minute and kill children the next. The idiocy in that coroner's report was mind numbing and made me so angry for Ayen Chol and her family that the TRUE reasons into why this tragedy happened were completely brushed aside. Criminal. Yes. Obviously her family may or may not know that it was rubbish, I don't know them, but if it was my child I would have sued over this incompetence. When the inquest was first announced I had the hide to suggest (on DOL) that it would be pinned on the breed anyway, so they might as well save the tax dollars and do something useful with them and I was shouted down angrily. Then, lo and behold, my prediction came true and I bet everyone was amazed at my ability to predict the future ;) Reading the report made me wonder if the coroner is in some way mentally retarded or something, actually. She specifically did NOT have an internal autopsy done.. Why, I wonder? Did she maybe worry that further health issues may be found that show that the dog had a less than stellar owner, rather than being born a killing machine? Who knows, I like to think she is just stupid instead of malicious....

Mmm I would prefer if every dog was safely contained regardless? And some bedding would be nice? I cannot believe that chaining and penning have the same impact on dogs but obviously have no study handy to prove one way or another. Maybe Corvus would know. Either way, the dog played nicely with other people in the same street before killing that girl inside her home so you would think they would like to know why it played nicely with one set of people and then killed a girl, seemingly unprovoked, after following members of her family inside a house, which seems a bit unusual?

The dog that killed Ayen Chol appears to have been living chained either in the backyard or inside the garage, on concrete and there was no gate between the garage (which had no door separating it from the back yard) and the street. It appears the dog got off the chain and the garage door was open, allowing it on the street. I hardly call that safe containment... I do believe that living on a chain (and permanently on concrete without bedding, as is evidenced by the ulcerated sores that were found on the dog) can make a dog more likely to do these kind of things upon uncontrolled release, so maybe that should be addressed by legislation. Life on a chain for a dog who is not regularly taken off and exercised/stimulated is no life anyway, in my personal opinion. ETA: I know these details because I read the results of the royal inquest, which was a joke btw. The conclusion was that the dog attacked because it was a pitbull, totally ignoring all of the other factors. An internal autopsy was not done, only visual external inspection. No live temp evaluation or anything, no assessment of any factors, except the dog's breed....... Which was testified to by the owner and the dog's vet, it obviously had no papers or anything.

Is that a bit of a gundog thing? Most gundogs I've met seem to be capable of phenomenal focus. Possibly? My dog is the same during work, even boring stuff, as long as the reward is worth it. Training/work is perfectly possible in very distracting circumstances with my dog as long as I concentrate. If my concentration goes.. Well.. That is not the dog's fault lol

I would also be reluctant to believe that somebody just caught them if they were not shot or somehow trapped. We have a pond in a park in town with a lot of feral, not native, ducks living around it and one of them ended up with a fishing hook stuck in its leg. For starters, nobody wanted to deal with it and then, once somebody (I think maybe WIRES?) came out to get it, it was pretty much impossible to catch this duck... I imagine it was probably a fox or a cat.

If you want something specific you may need to commission one to be made specifically for you. Maybe try finding somebody who does sculpting near you? I found a lovely artist (on facebook) who only does smallish stuff at the moment but I really love her work and I will be looking to commission a life sized Weimaraner of her if she is willing. Make sure you look at their other work first though, some people may be great at sculpting people or whatever but if they try to sculpt you a dog it might end up looking like a deer or something :p

Yes, I also want my dog to be calm and relaxed, especially between shots. You do not want a dog to start yipping in anticipation between shots lol I also dont want to have to physically restrain my dog between shots so she needs to be controlled enough to sit/drop and stay, no matter what once given that command, despite shot being fired, rabbits bolting past and animals being wounded and possibly vocalizing. Yes, it is important to catch a wounded animal ASAP but not important enough to accidentally get the dog shot if it runs in

Not to mention there is just no purpose I can see for some dogs in relation to dog fighting. Bait dogs are usually small to give the dog to be trained a successful experience. There are only a handful of dogs, even in breeds intended for fighting (which, contrary to popular belief, do NOT include Dobermanns, Rottweilers, German Shepherds, Dogos, Mastiff breeds and all the other "scary" breeds) which are actually suitable for dog fighting. Chances are that only a tiny percentage of dogs from the "fighting breeds" would actually fight well (which is what it is all about). I cannot see where large dogs of non fighting breeds would be useful to dog fighters, they are too big for bait and unsuitable for fighting, what are they meant to be doing with them? How many bully x dogs (especially from "pet stock") do you think somebody would need to steal to get a decent fighter? I would be willing to bet that the number is huge.

I think the first step to improving community safety would be to enforce leash and containment laws. Micro chip laws also come to mind, so the owner of a loose or offending dog can be found and punished appropriately. Next would have to be bite prevention education, especially in kindies, schools and for the parents, too (maybe at a parent meet or something before a new school year commences?) I think just these handful of things would make more of a difference than pretty much any new law or whatever that they can come up with.

I think I was referring to what Corvus explained, it is easier to work a gundog precisely when you try to lower arousal, since the dog starts off with a high level of arousal once it realizes that it will be retrieving shot game. I feel that there is no place for heightening the dog's arousal on purpose in this work, but rather I work to reduce and control the dog's natural drive. When they are puppies, some work to increase drive, especially for blood tracking and to make the dummy attractive seems appropriate (I am only talking HPR breeds here, like Weimaraners, GSP, Vizsla etc). A lot of European trainers like to use a flirt pole for this (I did, too) I don't do protection work so I don't know the ins and outs as well... Maybe somebody could explain what they do (arousal-wise) compared to what I do with my gun dog? I am pretty interested since many Weims in Germany who are used for hunting also do their Schutzhund titles (man sharpness actually used to be written in their standard before BSL and Dangerous Dog laws came along, it was then scratched for fear that the Weimaraner might draw attention due to this but many Weims that end up as pet only for one reason or another seem to still struggle with this escalating, mainly with badly prepared or unknowledgable owners) Speaking to German Wei owners I feel that a lot of our dogs here are being bred "soft" to make them suitable as pets, which is a bummer if you want to work them lol

This is how I feel when we are doing protection work, I think you see the dogs real genetic capabilities come out when they are given the opportunity to do something they are designed to do and have such strong instincts for. I am always in awe of what my dog can just 'do' due to genetic memory. Agree, if it is a good dog (for the purpose) then it already knows what to do, you just bring out the behaviour and reward it. It then becomes self-rewarding. I think the reason gun dogs don't train "in drive" is that the job (the waiting, the nose work, the self control needed to not run in in anticipation when the gun is fired etc) requires so much concentration and control. Your dog cannot be thoughtlessly acting on instinct alone, it needs to temper it's actions with patience and focus. I hope that sort of makes sense.

That's an interesting link, especially including all size dogs. If I had a big apartment dog I would get a rough collie :D But for my 20 kilos worth I can have a herd of papillons Some of the comments on the link were interesting too.I had a neighbour with 2 Weimaraners in a unit with tiny yard.He took them on a long walk twice a day and training time and he told me they were relaxed in house the rest of the time. efs I would have to say I agree. My Wei gets a lot of exercise outdoors as well as training (indoors and outdoors) and inside time, to her, is sleeping time. Unfortunately I would say most people would not be able to spend this many hours working their dog and one hour is certainly not enough. But with sufficient exercise/work/training a Wei will do fine in any size living quarters I believe. Without that they can be (extremely) destructive though and are escape artists when bored. They may also have strong guarding tendencies, so early training and socialization is very important.

I would be careful not to spoil the handover, where the dog might try to initiate a tugging session with the retrieve. If you keep them clearly separated at all times I think it should work. I only use treats as rewards at the moment because once the dog starts to enjoy the work the work becomes the reward, or so I have found. I only used the treats during basic retrieve training (holding the dummy, carrying it, clearing obstacles with the dummy, basic boring stuff like that). In saying that though, I have not actually started the dog on retrieving actual shot game due to an injury-induced break from training, so somebody who has actually got to that point should be able to help you more (i.e. The Spotted Devil as somebody else has said) ETA: I have found that waiting to be sent in and such will greatly increase the dog's enthusiasm and drive. My dog will pretty much do a rearing start in an effort to get away quicker now lol

Not if they climb the fence lol That seems to be the usual approach anyway from my personal experience I knew there was a reason we moved to a rural property lol

You can be sued BIG TIME if a child comes into your yard and drowns in the pool, particularly if you don't have child-proof gates and pool fencing of specified dimensions. In Oz...in the USA...probably in many other countries.I think this is less crazy than BSL. It's likely to result in warnings and mild punishments before the law comes down like a load of bricks and has the dog euth'd. I do think they should institute parallel punishments for the parents of kids who harass dogs. Note in Sweden it is illegal to own dogs that are " inclined to direct aggression at people or other dogs." Wow, so other people's kids are now your responibility, too? If I still lived in town I'd consider some kind of kid proof fencing... Possibly those rollers that go on top of the fence to stop cats scaling it haha I wonder if these laws only apply in town or to rural properties as well...

What if there is a pond in your garden and a child retrieving a ball drowns in it? What business do someone else's children have in your yard without your permission? Property laws must be different over there....