BlackJaq

This is terrible but on the same website I found video of a dobe playing with a baby that nearly made my head explode... People do not see this coming? Really? How? Are they somehow retarded? http://video.au.msn.com/watch/video/9raw-baby-entertained-by-doberman/xglagrf?cpkey=37575b10-ca7f-4e84-b74e-95870346e731%257c%257c%257c%257c

My argument has never been about fit for purpose or not, a cattle x kelpie that has as much ability as either breed doesn't make it a purebred which is what I'm getting at and farmers don't go round callin their crosses Catpies or whatever to claim pure status. The Bullarab is not a pure bred, is my argument, every bullarab i'm introduced to have multiple dogs with 3 generations of their breeding and that's if they can claim knowledge. That goes for my sister's who lives hours away to the guy down the road who goes hunting. The bullarab would best be described as a style of crossbred which was bred for a purpose and most do it well what ever their stlye, size, weigh,t colour. Going by what I am learning on the other thread the 'bullarab' would never be recognized in ANKC as a bullarab due to not having a unique name? that is because every pig hunter (or hobby hunter so as not to defend pig hunting enthusiasts) who backyard breeds, breeds bullarabs. the best thing for those who are actually trying to get it recognized would be a name change. and I only mention ANKC cause both bullarab registries that I know of state that's what they are aiming for. How do you know those kelpies and cattle dogs are even kelpies and cattle dogs? Do they have pedigree papers from any registry? I am trying to explain to you, that a pure bred dog of a breed does not need to look the same as another dog of that same breed, unless the breed standard calls for uniformity. Looks are not always the number one criteria when deciding on a breed standard. if the breed is a performance breed then it may take a long time for the dogs to start looking the same, unless the breed founders decide to write down their preferred look and only recognize that is their breed. I'm not sure why this concept is so hard for you to grasp. New breeds are generally not made because somebody sees a certain looking dog and thinks "why, wouldn't it be dandy to have a breed that looks like this!" Generally breeds are created for a purpose and unless the breed is to be a lapdog only, looks are only a secondary consideration, sometimes tertiary or later. ETA: Just because you have not met anybody who has a genuine 5 generation pedigree for their Bull Arab hardly means that those people and dogs do not exist. What a ridiculous concept.

I second the leash but personally I would never leave dog near a child that is crawling on the floor. soon your up will be much more agile and stronger, too while your baby will still be rolling and crawling all over the place. This is a tragic accident waiting to happen, your pup could easily nip your child, even after you thought you trained her out of it, and one nip in the right place can sever an artery and kill your baby within minutes. I would strongly suggest not letting the pup loose while the baby is on the floor but I know many people think this is too strict until something happens to them. At least have a good think about this. And maybe read this: http://www.liamjperkfoundation.org/liam.html

I would just like to point out that not all breeds with all registries have their books closed, so they hold it as Leah82 said. some countries my not even have national registries. Would you deny them the right to have different breeds just because they don't conform to your view of what a breed is? (I guess this is kind of a response to your comments from the other thread)

Angeluca you miss my point. As long as the dog will do the job (whatever that may be) and the job is the breed requirement then that defines the breed. For some people and/or some jobs, the appearance is completely unimportant. Many breeds choose to add a physical appearance requirement and our Western World type registries require there to be one, but if all that matters is the job the dog does, then those with unsuitable colour/size/conformation/what-have-you will disqualify themselves by not being able to do the job, no selection for colour or weight required.

I think some people get confused with this thing about looks. A young performance breed, bred for their performance will often have 10 different dogs with 10 different looks. Eventually a type will establish but you need only look at the APBT to see that even so, 2 dogs can be of the same breed as evidenced by papers or whatever, and look totally different. This is a common thread with many new-ish (and even some older) performance breeds (including Turkish shepherds, APBT and others) and eventually, depending on the breed fathers, a breed standard may be written up that puts some kind of limits on the range of appearance, usually for visual preference, uniformity's sake or to make the breed more palatable as a "breed" to the registry that they are trying to get recognized with. I don't think you should be so dismissive of a "breed" just because its individuals don't all look the same.

Of course dogs are being stolen all the time, but generally they will be dogs that are in some way valuable, entire pure breds, easy to sell SWFs, whatever "look" is popular with BYB customers at the time, dogs for work like piggers etc. Mangy looking, scared, runty bully type? Not so much.... And yes, lots of people contain their dogs poorly and then cry theft when their dog scales the 4 foot fence to nail the bitch on heat down the road....

Maybe you could try get her back down to her ideal weight (I am only going by your post in my Fat Dogs thread lol) and see if that might not make her feel well enough to keep up again? I'm not sure why a GR would not be able to jog like a GSP would? My Weimaraner gets hot despite a short coat so I try to exercise her very early or late when it is hot. With a HPR dog (German Pointers, Weimaraners, Vizslas) I would not think that they would be slowing down due to age at age 6 yet but am not familiar enough with GR to be able to say. It might be worthwhile doing a proper vet check on your dog, including checking for joint and back problems etc. What kind of surface do you jog on? My dog does not enjoy running on tar and cement, so foot paths are not popular and might even be making the dog sore a little...

I don't believe pits are 'so much worse'. But they do have a problem, and people getting defensive does not make the problem go away. Nor do hokey stories of supposed heroics. Every breed is a mixed bag, and the mix carries both imprints of the last century and modern uses, be they uses for a tiny fraction of the dogs in the breed. Modern sight hounds are rarely used to run down prey in developed countries, but greyhound rescue has to be careful about screening for and training away from running down animals that are not supposed to be prey. It's been a century since the barbed hook made the St. John's dog unnecessary for catching fish that escaped from lines off the Grand Banks, but you can still see the imprint of working rough cold water in a lot of Labbies and Chessies. It's probably been 10+ generations since most GSD's were used for herding, but many of them can still be trained to herd. Both Staffies and pitties have history of fighting, and are inclined to be scrappy with other dogs. Pits have a lot of strikes against them in the US. They are extremely hardy and throw large litters, thus are abundantly available as free, or nearly free, puppies and adult dogs. Unfortunately, the macho guy type who likes a muscle dog is unlikely to desex, and the more docile, friendly dogs are less likely to sire litters. Pits are associated with proud poverty and not popular with middle or upper middle class people, other than people with a certain ideology. If your kid wants a puppy and you make minimum wage ($7.79/hr in Florida), you are likely to end up with a pit or pit cross. For the most part they are friendly, wiggly, cute pups and very good with kids. But they have their problems. I walk daily in an area where most houses are trailers or mobile homes, more utes than passenger cars, lots of junked vehicles. A neighbor has a boat named White Trash in his front yard. I get rushed at the fence, or at chain's end, by three for four dogs every day. Every one of them is a pit or a pit cross. If you have four or five people living in a 60 or 70 sq m house, the dog will generally end out living outside; if you can't afford fencing, it will end out on a chain. As for the Vick dogs, a celebrity fighting bust is an anomaly. If you had a million dollars to save fifty or sixty dogs, plus the world watching, I would expect a low euth rate. Unfortunately, the rag-tag lot of pits and pit crosses that end out in our local shelter, and shelters across the US, are lucky if $50/dog is budgeted to their rehab. I don't need you to lecture me. The bolded bit is exactly what we were trying to explain to you. That was all.

I would probably go with rib cover as different breeds often have very different shapes. A lot of short coated sight hounds will for example show the knobs of their vertebrae, even when in good condition. some of our dogs have less tuck than others and I have noticed with staffy mixes the males can often have an almost straight bottom line, due to the way their penis is set and the skin that connects it to their belly. Not sure if I am describing this very well.... Bundy (on far right in my sig) is bit heavier than ideal atm but even when slim, he has minimal tuck, especially when he is not in fit condition. With increased muscle tone he will gain some tuck.

I'd recommend you look at how many dogs from fighting busts are actually euthanized because of temp reasons. Most are killed because of lack of space and resources and the Vick dogs are a brilliant example of how well many can be rehabilitated and homed http://www.badrap.org/vick-dogs Aside from this, dogs are bred for unsavoury purposes all over the world, not only to fight other dogs but other animals and some even to actively hurt humans. Even pet dogs are often bred for poor reasons and with poor temperaments. Not sure why you believe that pits are so much worse than other dogs who are bred carelessly or for reasons other than pet temperament.

Of course I know their story, I specifically said I'm only talking about dogs and owners that I know, not strangers in the street.

I have yet another question: Would you comment on a fat dog (I'm talking jellyfish, no ribs to be felt, not one or two kilos too much) being trained in agility with intermittent lameness issues? The dog in question belongs to one of my agility instructors, so the situation is awkward, to say the least.... I had my hands on the dog today so I am not judging on the look, I felt past the coat and I can literally not even feel a rib and according to the owner he will go lame for a whole day if he does any "excessive" exercise, like chasing a rabbit...

Thank you BlackJaq! I should really be weighing him more as I have no idea how heavy he is but I adjust his food according to his body condition and it seems like a good way to monitor his food This is what I do, too. We have 5 dogs all up so food needs vary a lot and also fluctuate with exercise levels. The type of food also influences the amount. I seem to feed less when we have fresh meat available (from hunting, slaughtering etc) than when we have only kibble. At the moment everybody is at a good weight except OH's male because OH is in charge of feeding that one and he has not been adjusted from his winter feed to warmer time rations.... He is only slightly over and I am working on OH about it... :p

He does look great hankodie!

With a dog that is not loosing weight despite minimal food and good exercise I would definitely check with a vet. Cushings and a number of other diseases will make an animal (or person for that matter) look fat, when they can actually be retaining fluid or have other health issues.

Holy shit! What a terrible result for her, hope her dog is ok. I am glad that no breed speculations were made here though a description of the dog would probably be helpful if they are looking for it...

Yep and I find that often people with chubby dogs will be quick to point out that they find a dog too skinny. Often they fail to recognize a fit dog or a dog in good but lean condition. I try to refer them to body condition charts but usually when they report back, they have learnt nothing and scored their own dog incorrectly, even after studying the chart... It remains a mystery... Also, and this may be offensive again, I find often people who are noticeably obese will also have obese pets, children and sometimes even partners... In that kind of situation even I recognize the futility of even trying to comment...

I have another question: Is there a point where you would report a dog for being too fat? I guess people report skinny dogs all the time, but not fat dogs? How fat would a dog have to be for you to consider reporting it? And if you wouldn't, then why not?

I consider obesity to be an animal welfare issue. If you can help people to get their dogs in better shape, the dog will live longer with better quality of life. I have never heard a person who's successfully slimmed down a pet wish it fat again. It's like they get a new dog. I do, too. If your friends were parading around dog that is skin and bone, saying it was in much better condition than when they got it, would you just leave them to it, too? I kinda have to wonder why a dog's weight is so personal a thing for people? People can hurt dogs (and children for that matter) by feeding them fat... I see why it gets annoying when your dog has a medical condition that makes it over or under weight and people comment on that, but surely explaining what is wrong with your dog will fix it? That is how I handled comments with the two formerly mentioned dogs... I can't help but think that at least people care when they comment. Sure, some can't tell a healthy weight themselves but then again, some can..

Oh and re vets not saying anything: I get told this a lot, too and it drives me nuts. I try to explain that their vet is probably too afraid they will take offence and take their business to someone who does not confront them with the unfortunate truth... But I can't help but think that at least some dogs might not be so fat if a vet did drop a little hint here or there.... A lot of people feel justified in having a dog be hugely overweight "because the vet never said anything"...

First off, thank You Everyone for all the replies! Definitely made me feel better to see that other people are bothered as well. I think some people may have missed my Edit wherein I mentioned that I do not approach random strangers just to tell them their dog is fat. Obviously that would be more than rude, maybe a little creepy even! I am purely talking about dogs whose owners I know at least well enough to have regular conversations with. Also, I definitely understand about medical issues and weight and having a genuine medical reason mentioned will shut me up right away in any case. Having owned a dog on steroids and also struggling to get my Weimaraner past a skinny stage I realize there are valid reasons to own an overweight or underweight dog and these are not the dogs that bother me. The ones where the owner is either totally clueless or the ones who purposely fatten their dog up and think that's what love is re the ones that bother me. I will definitely try to use the advice given here and maybe see if we can organize some kind of local obedience or puppy classes to go with the agility that our local KC is already offering now. I don't actually mind the idea of puppy classes, even if we only teach basics like sit and walking on a leash. Coming from a "professional" point of view might make it a little easier to give husbandry advice...

I am having this epic struggle on my hands every time I see a fat dog, especially when the owners are blissfully unaware and think their dog is just the picture of health, or, even worse, when they think they are doing a great thing by feeding their dog fat because it was so skinny when they got it (even if the dog was in great weight at that point)... I just really want to speak out for the poor dog and point out the health issues associated with obesity... However, people are usually extremely sensitive of any criticism.. Gush over Fatso Pooch as much as you want but mention anything that is not sticky sweet adoration garble and BAM.... I have had some really extreme reactions and now I just about bite my tongue off in an attempt to stay quiet... Unfortunately this makes me tense up a bit and I end up standing in front of them in a stiff, awkward kind of manner, unable to do any patting or gushing at all, in case any words escape me... It's awkward.. To say the least. So, I realize I'm an incurable know-it-all and that uttering the words "I think your dog is a little obese" is incredibly rude and akin to social suicide... But is there any way, at all, that might successfully communicate the idea that a dog might be a little (or you know, a lot) too fat without turning the owner into a venom spitting fury? The people who seemingly love their dogs the most seem to be the most crazy ones when told.. But shouldn't they be grateful that there is something they can do to improve Fatso Pooch's quality of life and potentially even extend the lifespan of their beloved pet? Why do they get so angry? Obesity is not an incurable disease and it is never too late to shed some pounds, so why the violent denial? Any opinions? Help? Or should I just make an excuse and run away before I can make an ass out of myself? Edited to add: I am talking about familiar people and acquaintances here, not random strangers in the street.. I do pretty much look away and run when I see strangers with fat dogs to avoid the whole issue...

The child jumped on the dog, according to the grandfather he heard the dog yelp. The grandfather then went to check on them. This seems like an easily avoided situation to me and food was not mentioned anywhere in this article. However, it often is an issue, see what happened to Deeon and also the girl killed by pig dogs who supposedly had a pie

Unfortunately I believe it's the same thing that happened previously with other breeds and I think media focus will simply shift to another breed as the "bad dog"- I believe we were discussing this re bull mastiffs the other day. Unfortunately the public seems to have a collective memory like a gnat and are oblivious to the fact that GSD, Rotts, Dobes and others have previously been in the same boat. Truly I hope it is not so but I don't have much hope...