PAX

I'm sure if you email Steve at K9Force he will be able to answer all of your questions before meeting with the vet.

A click doesn't always end the behavoiur, if I click and delay the reward my dog will often work better waiting for the reward for a few more steps, then I reward in postion. Sometimes I will click and throw the food rewarding out of postion, my dog will get the reward and recommence the behavoiur so I do not believe the click ends it in the dogs mind. I know my dogs dont get a C/T and then stop for smoko. I wouldn't be keen on a clicker that needs batteries.

I use a NRM sometimes but all I ever say to the dog is 'oops', it is hard to say oops in a cranky voice Sometimes I will prat on with stuff like 'silly duffer that's not it' as I set them back up. I think it helps the dog to know that what the are offering is incorrect and to try again. If it is a brand new behavour then I don't use a NRM. I like the NRM as I want to give my dog as much information as I can, I think of it like playing the warmer/colder game. If my dogs come into the house and go to eat the cat food or herd the cat I say 'get out of it' or 'leave it', but that is the only sort of situation I will sound cross as I think they no that is naughty.

For the foot targeting I didn't name it all, the dogs just knew when I stood in front of it that I needed them to stand on it, as you need to be close to get the rear end moving. For the nose touch, use a different thing like the mouse pad, be close so you can load the target then click as she gets it, how quickly you can get distance will depend on how smart she is. Seeing she is a BC should only take a few seconds.... Forgot to say; how quick to name it. I would name it if you want as soon as it looks like she is starting to understand what she has to do.

Yes LL, we all lump. :rolleyes: I think number 1 example is lumping. I would of C/T the pick up and rewarded at the pick up, or even just going to the lead. Mrs D, I would get a mouse pad or something non slip and C/T her to nose touch it, same way you have C/T her to foot target for the rear end awareness game. Help her by cheating and put food on the target and click as she gets it. I'm sure once she gets the idea you will be able to easily transfer to a lead or what ever. You could train her to retrieve the bit of rope that will go on the toy instead of a lead (I'm thinking out loud). Target plate is a great game as you can use it for heaps of things while training, also when she hits the plate you can throw food to her so she learns she doesn't have to come back to you to get the food/reward.

Mrs D, If you read through this it should help and give you some ideas. :rolleyes: http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=10632 I just read all your post, I was rushing. Try breaking it down more, C/t her for going to the article, throw it, send her, go with her and reward when she gets to it. Maybe you're lumping too much for her. Have you trained her to go to a target plate or something similar?, that also might help. Try to get rewards in away from you.

That is a great club, the CI organises heaps of seminars so you get to train with some of the best in Aus. Forgot to say the have a great web page too.

I'm the same, what can't a Border Collie do?

Deelee, just remember anything your dog wants, to her is a reward. What we thinkk is a reward is often different then what the dogs thinks. Remember, if she wants it, its a reward, so ask for something so she can earn the right to get it.

It is all about screwing them down, if she wants to go sniff, use it as a life reward. Ask for for easy behavoiur like sit, then release to sniffing, build from there. If she finds this 'the most rewarding thing' you just need to screw her down, she needs to know that she can only do that after she does what you want. She has a built in reward system, just needs rules to get it. Easy.

You're funny. ;)

Hi Laffi, What breed are they? Is it food sniffing or hunting sniffing? I have some Rats I can send you (kidding). Susan G talked lots about putting a chicken neck in a footy sock to encourage tugging for non tugging dogs. What do you want your dog to play?

Hi M. ;)

Hey LL, I love you and love your posts. ;)

Deelee, You can get really long leads, like 20 metre long lines so she can still hoon around at the park but be under your control. You have to decide what sort of method you want to use to train her and what you really want from her, you also have to be fair and consistant so it is easy for her to know the difference. My dogs are allowed to do basically whatever they like when off lead at the beach or park but when I call them they must come and obey. Because this has always been so heavily rewarded they always want to do as I ask. Everything my dogs want they have to do something I ask to get it, so when they are on lead it is no different. All my training happens in low distraction areas, in more exciting places I would only ever ask for easy things like a sit or a hand touch, I don't want to practise failure. I also want my dogs to think it is always in their best interest to do as I ask as it gets them what they want. You could practise things like a couple of steps of attention heeling at the park then let her free on the long line, Always reward her heavily for attention and make your intentions clear to her, a good free release word and body language so she is always clear of want you want. When my dogs are free I say Ok off you go. When ever I ask my dogs to come into my perfect heel position I show them a different body postion then what they see at other times. The way I walk casually and the way I walk heeling are quite different, that helps my dogs know the difference. Also when I show them my heeling position I always make it worth their while to get into heel position. Even things like ask for a sit, say 'yes good dog' then stir her up to get what she wants saying 'where's the food' or whatever as a reward. Make sure she is on leash and under control so she can't get into trouble, I do this with my naughty Dobe but to the local Ibis and wood ducks that are at our park. You have to teach her she can have what she wants but it's through you. She has do as you ask to get what she wants, they are the best rewards for dogs. Of course keep her on a long line so she is safe until she is more reliable. What ever you decide, stick to it to help your dog work it out. If you are unsure how will she ever learn. ;)

It's only a problem if you want to spit the food. :rolleyes:

You need to be consistant with you criteria. Do you want her to pay attention to you the whole walk?, seems unrealistic to me so maybe you're nagging her. 'but she just will not pay consistent attention to me when we are walking-' Or do you want her not to pull on the lead?

A sheepdog guy gave me a lip whistle and I can't get it to make a sound. :rolleyes:

Happy birthday to you, :rolleyes: .

I call waliking on hind legs 'go tall', if that helps.

What a cutie.

Mark thankyou for posting on DOL, In theory I agree with most things you have written but it's the terminology that's used that throws 'us Positive trainers' off, I would rather say I am a motivational trainer as I do use negative punishment. I try to never use physical punishment because it makes me feel bad and I believe that my dogs never choose to do the wrong thing, sometimes there are just things that seem worth the trouble to them. Also they are only dogs, in the best sense of the word. I have owned quite a few different breeds and I have found my dogs are respectful of me because I control the things that they want. If they are not sitting patiently, the trailer door doesn't open, if they dont give me a handtouch they don't go free to toilet, the dinner bowl never gets put down unless they sit, if they want to play tug they must hold that stay to get it, if they want to go out the gate they must sit calmly and wait to be collared.. etc etc. It's a lifestyle, I don't need physical corrections. This starts from the day any dog arrives at my house. If they dont do it, thats fine their choice, I walk away, so they learn to always want to do it. :D I have never felt the need to teach my dogs to submit to me, I have never owned one that tried to dominate me and I think most dogs don't behave like that. (I have owned lots of breeds from Whippets to Dobermanns! :cool: ) My dogs also find other people of little value, I don't know if it's because they are happy and satisfied with what I provide but my dogs always want to be with me. In regard to saying 'if a method takes months to teach', I believe it depends on what it is. Are we talking about general household manners or heelwork? It also depends on our expectations of a behaviour, I dont want my dog walking beside me, I want 100% focus under any distraction, so this takes time and I believe in no corrections. I want my dogs to have such high value of heeling as it is so bloody boring to the dog in every other sense of the word. I also would never ask for this unless I was prepared to give my dog 100% attention and use the big rewards. It can be quite difficult to interpret the written word sometimes and what we think a correction/ reward is. My 0.02. What sort of dogs do you own??? Sticky beak I know. :D

Bondi is lovely. :rolleyes:

I'm with tess, I love this game as do my dogs. If my dog isn't too confident i let them win. My dogs always represent the toy to my hand for more tugging as that is the game. I have taught my dog to stay, recall, SFE and a great motivater for heel work with a tug toy. I never let or suggest young kids play this game with the dog.