PAX

Kavik, that is exactly my point though, my dogs (well two of them) have been selectively bred to work sheep. So if I teach them other stuff that is less rewarding then their hard wired traits, is that work? To me I think it is, I know when we work sheep I don't have to give any rewards, the working of the sheep is it's own reward, if they don't comply, they don't get to work them, simple. Where Obedience work is a whole different game, it is not self rewarding, actually very boring to the dog, so in my and I'm sure my dogs opinion, Obedience is work, even though I add high level rewards to make it fun, it is not the same as working the sheep, it has no real reward for the dog therefore it's work IMO..

I don't know either.

Kavik, do you then think that performing tasks, lets say retreiving, something that is not hard wired into the average BC or Kelpies (for your benefit), is that work or play in the Op's original argument?

Just thought I would add, my dogs (I'm sure) would rather have their teeth pulled then be a show dog, so is that work, to my dogs it would be.

I think when you have trained and trialled a dog to CDX level you will be taken more serious to comment.

A mock trial is the real deal except you don't get marked and are not for competition. A sweepstakes is still a competition IMO. IMO a mock trial should allow the handler to reward the dog at any stage of the performance however they see fit, unfortunately that is more than often not the case.

One of my dogs loves to play frisbee. I have taught her many other things with the opportunity of having the frisbee as a reward. Is that work then or play? I think anything we train them to do that is not a natural dog behavoiur can be called work.

Regardless of whether it's a half hour or all day, if that is the dogs preferred work or what it is hard wired to do, is other training of less or more value? or more or less work to the dog? For example, if the dog is bred to work sheep, is doing Obedience more of less work for that dog? I know with my sheep dog, working sheep is her preference, she would prefer to do that than eat. So does that mean other training is work for her?

I consider it work, although my dogs would beg to differ. I have a WBC, she loves to work the sheep, it is serious and that is her job. She also loves to play the obedience game but prefers sheep work. Seeing that Sheep work is her preference, is that work or play?

Just watched your ring run out...........you are so lucky that you can use food in the run out mock trial. We can't here (that I'm aware of), it is hard to understand the point of a ring run out that you cannot reward in. What the point of it is, I don't understand? Kenzie looked great, watch your turns, and if you can, pull out her higest level rewards for ring work.

Ness, you only did a ring run out, not the real thing...........lol. Congrats anyway, Kenzie should be good, you have experience so we expect big things from her and you. The bar is higher for you. Ness copped the hard yards. Same goes for my next dog, if I ever decide what breed I want, I don't think I can go past a BC.

I forgot to Congratulate Danni and Gabby, go the Koolies.

Congrats RubyStar and Ptolomy.

Postie came, no parcel today. Maybe tomorrow. I'm dying to test out the I squeak balls, see if my dogs love them as much as Ptolomy does.

Thanks Laffi, I'll be sweating on the Postie coming. :rolleyes:

You are naughty, you clicker train so get out your clicker and get her picking up anything and everything. I will help Sue whip your butt. :rolleyes: She doesn't hate it, you just haven't trained it.

Your FT sounds like a reward based trainers dream dog. If you're worried about any of your dogs behaviours I would suggest you find a reward based trainer in your area to come and help you. If you can live happily with your dog's water obsession, she sounds delightful. All of the obsession's she has could be used for training the perfectly behaved dog.

How old is he? Although this is an irrelevant question, peeing on things that belong to us is not acceptable, poor puppy for getting it so wrong. He needs to learn that this is a a big NO NO. Maybe he needs to go back to baby puppy training, IMO it shouldn't really matter if he is desexed or not, he needs to learn that this is a no go. I don't know at this stage whether it is of any relevance as to why? It is just not on, you buy the dog food, you rule. If your can't curb this yucky habit, as it is always suggested, get a Pro in to give you guidance.

I would suggest you test what your dog actually knows and what you think you have taught it before using any corrections, I would do this at home in a low distraction time. Can you get your dog to sit when you are sitting down on the floor? Or laying down?, what about if your dog is behind you and you are in front of a mirror and give a simple verbal cue like 'sit', can your dog do it? Until you can do this you wont truly know if your dog understands your verbal commands. It is a great test to see what your dog knows and what you think it knows. You might be suprised at how much your dog actually offers or guesses to get it right. Happy training.

If I was a better trainer, I would love to train a Foxy. There are some great Foxies doing remarkable things competing in the USA. I'm not sure why they aren't so popular here for dog sports, they certainly have the drive. :rolleyes:

Woohoo RubyStar big congrats to everyone else too. :cool: Where are the brag photos??????????? :D

Are you doing it Squeak?

Haha Kelpie, she knew what door to knock on. :rolleyes: She looks like a real sweety, good luck finding her the perfect home.

I agree, one hour is way too long. But taking the things that Gina O said on board we were able to change our club, our club was very old school and we are in regional NSW. We got enough new members to block all the oldies and we changed the club. It is one thing to whinge about CC clubs but it is another to get in there and make changes that benefit the dogs and the people that want to join the club and the people and dogs of the local community.. You can incorporate tricks and heaps of theory in a fun way if you have the motivation to make change. In a regional area people do not want to travel for ten minutes training. If you keep the people happy they will keep training.