minyvlz

British Shorthair :D

OT because mine is a cat but he looks so much like his mother. my boy: Mother:

If it comes to that or feeding kibble, I would definitely ensure my dog gets what's required and not get a deficiency in minerals and nutrients. If that means I have to stick food down my dog's throat, just like I do pills, that's what I'll do. Perhaps pills are not appropriate for dogs too and we should never give any dog medication? Many people feed what they think their dog does best on and jeopardise his health later down the path. Any dog can survive on Pedigree or even mince and rice and appear healthy. If OP wants to feed a proper raw diet, there are some components that cannot be negotiated upon. ETA: Maybe I can also say then: If you have to cook your dog's food out of unfit-for-human-consumption products and later add 'nutrients' and preservatives into it to last your dog months/if your dog's food has to be scientifically formulated by humans (a species that is battling our own diet-related diseases such as T2 diabetes and obesity) in a lab..... then perhaps it's not the most appropriate food for the dog. If your dog turns his nose up at organs but loves & thrives on maccas or kitty poop or krapple, I guess that is the best food for your dog . Good luck!

The sardines you feed are the raw kind or the tinned ones? If they're raw, at least you're getting some organs. If they're tinned, eat them yourself. DTDO - If your dogs eat tinned fish, they are not exclusively raw fed. As for organ, have you tried mixing it in mince, searing the outside, sticking it down his throat, doling it out as a treat/reward, freezing them, hiding it in half a chicken, trying different protein sources, accidentally dropping them, practising tough love (i.e. no other food unless he eats his organs)? Personally I would not feed my lot any of the stuff you feed your older dog (save the eggs and lamb heart), so I'm not of any help there, sorry. From what you detailed though, it seems like WAY too much calcium, what more with kibble. I would not raise any pup on kibble ever again, much less kibble with so much added bone. I would say feed the pup separately and not let the older dog's distaste of organs influence him. Introduce a variety of meats, cuts and protein sources as early as you can (depending on tolerance). Plus try whole prey for both dogs like rabbit, fish or quail. Raw meat (not bones) mixed with kibble is fine, but that defeats the reason of feeding either - I assume dry for convenience and raw for optimal health and knowing what exactly you're feeding. Even cooking/dehydrating/baking the organs is better than feeding kibble, not that it's recommended!

Having lived in several countries, I can tell you that raw meat in Australia is really very cheap compared to many places, and feeding PMR in Australia cost me less than top quality kibble (back then I tried brands like Artemis, Nutro, Canidae, Natural Balance, Holistic Select, Earthborn Holistic etc). Who's to say what those dogs with rickets in the Tudor period were fed exactly? Sure, some might have rickets, others might have died of starvation or of old age. Others might prefere to feed their dogs cheaper foods like aforementioned grain gruel, while the humans feast on meats. We're not trying to recreate the menu of what dogs were fed by humans in the past (which, btw, is far better than kibble), but rather what dogs eat naturally in times of abundance. So a Yorkie might not be able to take down a cow, but his digestive tract is exactly the same as that of a Great Dane's, proportionate to his size. A "proportion of game or meat" does not tell you that a PMR diet causes an imbalance of Ca:P. In fact, Ca:P is a ratio used only in man-made, artificial, 'scientifically formulated' diets . Kibble is cooked food with nutrients added back in. Are these nutrients more bioavailable to the dog than raw, natural nutrients that were not depleted in the cooking process? Who determines what Ca:P ratio a dog requires? A scientist? A breeder? Or a pet food researcher getting ideas from a dog's natural diet in the wild? (And then adding things like carbs and veggies to cut costs of course...but at whose cost?) All those people feeding kibble which supposedly has the ideal Ca:P then upset said ratio by feeding raw bones in addition to kibble. Yet people come up with their own versions of barf, and then claim their versions are most accurate because their dog grows slowly and perfectly? Feeding a proper PMR diet allows dogs to grow the way they are supposed to - naturally. Feedback from a majority of owners of large and giant breed puppies state that raw-fed pups grow slower than kibble-fed littermates. They reach their genetic adult size with a reduced risk of developing joint diseases like panosteitis, hip dysplasia, & hypertrophic osteodystrophy, with more lean muscle mass & less heavy subcutaneous body fat. Also, they recommend that giant pups be fed smaller but more frequent meals a day, so that they can digest and assimilate all that they eat, without overloading the digestive system. RSA, yes, indeed they require the correct amount of nutrients! Not carbs that lay down fat instead of muscle, not meat that has been rendered and processed out of all their nutrients with artificial ones added to them, and not vegetables that a carnivore does not need. BTW, similarly, if you feed kibble and it has the 'gold ratio' of 'correct amount of nutrients' then by adding things like roo mince, aren't you upsetting the balance? The 80-10-5-5 ratio is by weight, and while I am not Yonjuro, yes I am suggesting that a proper PMR diet is good and safe for all breeds and ages of dogs and cats, tweaked of course to the dog. I would choose to feed a Dally low purine meats such as chicken and pork but still feed organs since it's only 10% of the diet. It does not take a scientist to feed your dog the best quality diet. There are values of how many % bone a chicken, beef, etc has online. For example, "Chicken, broilers or fryers, meat and skin and giblets and neck, raw" has 31% bone. The ratio is a guideline and balance is achieved over time, not in a meal. I can't speak for barf diets or any other form of raw, but I firmly believe in a good PMR diet. http://k9joy.com/dogarticles/dogfood01cap.pdf http://www.kirj.ee/public/Ecology/2009/issue_2/ecol-2009-2-141-152.pdf http://www.kaossiberians.com/old%20kaos%20pages/health/Nutrients.pdf http://rawfed.com/myths/balance.html http://ndb.nal.usda.gov/ http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?isbn=0309034965&page=44 Royal Canin Giant Puppy ingredients from http://www.royalcanin.com.au/products/products/dog-products/size-health-nutrition/giant-dogs-45kg/giant-puppy : There is one semi-named protein as first ingredient, and the rest of the ingredients seem to be largely carbs and veggies. Plus why anyone would feed 34% protein to a large breed puppy is beyond me. Let's say 34% + 14% is all from meat (which is obviously not the case), so that makes 48% meat (with nutrients removed) and 52% ingredients that seem to be detrimental to any dog.

Disagree. I've known quite a few giant breed puppies raised wonderfully on PMR.

Saw this on Facebook. Not a news article but worth sharing. Dog has now had tumours removed and has been neutered. For updates: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Canine-Solutions-Staffordshire/309843302469516

My boys are 100% prey model but there's still staining around the eye , mouth/jaw and paws.

I have tried ACV in water but my Maltese x didn't like the taste. It worked but so did pure distilled water as drinking water. There's also a natural formula of Angel Eyes that's said to be effective. I've tried the non-natural formula and that works too but now that I know what's in it I'll never use it again.

I woudn't take him off raw, but for alternative sources of calcium, what about ground eggshell?

cosmolo, would like the recall program too if it's ok? thank you!

10% of expected adult weight is way too much. 2% of expected adult weight is the way to go, and work up from there - usually 3-4% is for smaller breed puppies. If you have a mutt and don't know how big he will grow to, feed 10% of current weight.

I have to admit I thought that with my first puppy and he never did become a devil - much to my disappointment. He just seemed like an old dog, just laying there and being so calm. I thought he was broken. Probably was Haha, no wonder! I'm not in Australia but in Europe ;) She's very timid compared to my other girl Mikan, who's more curious and bold. This little one (Yuza) is still scared of everything and did not handle the stress of traveling as well as Mikan did. Glad she's settled in now, and will probably be naughtier as she grows older. She's older than the puppy (Diamond) but seems more baby-ish! Baby cats and dogs are so different :laugh:

Jules: Thank you! Miah is just gorgeous as well Yeah she is quite okay, I think the worst months are from 4 or 5 months onwards.. that's the kitty terror period :laugh: sujo: Yes she is! Why is it strange for a SF to be from Russia? There are hardly any in Scotland :laugh: Also, perhaps you struck puppy lottery with Flynn (who is just beautiful btw)!

Now I have finally gotten my kitten from Russia and also, unexpectedly, a foster failure puppy. So things are pretty crazy around here at the moment :laugh: This little guy has evolved from a placid cuddlebum to a full-on crazy puppy. If I hadn't seen his littermates I would really have thought he was an oversized JRT! & my little w61 33 girl