Leelaa17

That is amazing!!! Good on you for acting so quickly! I probably would've run around in circles not knowing what to do!! And where did you find the pulse?

;) Believe me when I say I know it's a hard time for a lot of people. hugs for everyone for mothers day.

Without going into it on this thread, as a bereaved parent there is not a chance in hell that I would have allowed my baby to be used for this. It is singular one of the most devastating things to happen to a person and we hold them so precious and dear. I am really irritated at the insensitivity of these comments, maybe I am over reacting but there you have it. In this day and age I am sure we can recreate a crash test dummy that would be able to simulate the impact etc a car crash would have on a doll. Can you note that this was not actually MY comment? i didn't bring up the crash test dummy thing thank you. ETA: And I am extremely sorry to hear that. Without going into it on this thread, as a bereaved parent there is not a chance in hell that I would have allowed my baby to be used for this. It is singular one of the most devastating things to happen to a person and we hold them so precious and dear. I am really irritated at the insensitivity of these comments, maybe I am over reacting but there you have it. In this day and age I am sure we can recreate a crash test dummy that would be able to simulate the impact etc a car crash would have on a doll. Not without building it using data based on observation. And that data is, as I have said, simply not available. You can't simulate anything without factual parameters to build the simulation. Perhaps you might care to read my entire comments about the use of children's bodies for research. I said: Sorry, but I fail to see how this is an insensitive comment. ;) I'm not making light of the devastating impact of a child's death on a family. If you don't believe that failure to be able to accurate simulate the impact of car crashes on children causes issues for car safety, I can only encourage you to research the issue for yourself. Firstly I suck at the quote thing so apologise for to those that I have not quoted, I have quoted and that I haven't quoted fully. Secondly I don't want to research it Poodlefan pure and simple, sometimes ignorance is bliss. I can only speak for myself and say when I read your comments I was irritated and angry, probably as it is a sensitive thing for me to think about, I hope something you would never have to live through and then live with. Anyway this is detracting from the OP You did fine with the quote thing!! Again - I would like to apologise if you have taken offense to anything I have said. That was not my intention at all. And poodlefan - I know you didn't have any issue with others taking issues with your comments. It is the nature of this forum.

so how do you propose vet students learn if you aren't willing to let them learn on your pets? cadavers. And I am willing to let already EXPERIENCED vet students learn on my pets as long as there is an experienced vet assisting them. And for those vet students to become experienced... again... I say cadavers. I think you missed the bit when we said that we weren't happy to trust our dogs life on someone who was still learning not to be sqeamish around dogs and insides and euthanasia etc etc. Not sure how you'd learn to diagnose various diseases that depend on the dog not being dead. And ETA, a bit hypocritical that you're okay with a dog being killed so a vet student can learn as long as it's not done by a student. It's okay, for example, for the dog to be killed at a pound and then transported to a vet hospital? the bold: that doesn't make sense to me? And Absolutely NOT! Did you not read my first post? I am against euthanasia altogether. I DO NOT think it is an ok to euthanise an animal unless it is dying or in a lot of pain. this was my post: And I don't know how you'd learn to diganose various diseases - don't they do that through blood tests, x-rays and other tests? They don't do surgeries to 'diagnose' diseases do they? I think it's fairly clear that you don't know a whole lot about veterinary practices. Perhaps you've been lucky enough never to have a dog be sick or injured at all. Maybe you should spend a day at a vet surgery because thus far your comments are pretty bloody insensitive whether or not they're about dogs or people. I BEG your pardon? My God. Have I EVER claimed to have ANY idea on vet practices? NO. I will happily say I know absolutely NOTHING about vet practices and what happens etc. I only know what people tell me. And I am extremely lucky to not have any serious illness or injury happen to my pets (although there HAS been injury and illness - just not serious) and I always go into the vet and ask a million questions because I don't know anything about it. I am a journalist. Not a vet. And second of all - I would really like you to show me which comments I have made that are insensitive? That was NEVER my intention. And I don't think ANY of my comments have been insensitive? So I have absolutely no idea what you're going on about?

Without going into it on this thread, as a bereaved parent there is not a chance in hell that I would have allowed my baby to be used for this. It is singular one of the most devastating things to happen to a person and we hold them so precious and dear. I am really irritated at the insensitivity of these comments, maybe I am over reacting but there you have it. In this day and age I am sure we can recreate a crash test dummy that would be able to simulate the impact etc a car crash would have on a doll. Not without building it using data based on observation. And that data is, as I have said, simply not available. You can't simulate anything without factual parameters to build the simulation. Perhaps you might care to read my entire comments about the use of children's bodies for research. I said: Sorry, but I fail to see how this is an insensitive comment. I'm not making light of the devastating impact of a child's death on a family. If you don't believe that failure to be able to accurate simulate the impact of car crashes on children causes issues for car safety, I can only encourage you to research the issue for yourself. I agree poodlefan. I didn't see your comments at being insensitive - actually, quite the opposite. I felt you were actually sticking up for the greiving parents. I was also just trying to state the fact that it was not my comment.

Goodness me. Once again, I would really like people to read my entire posts before replying???? I QUOTE: I. don't. know. I don't have any great fancy ideas on how to save every dog - all I know is that I don't want euthanasia to be a part of it. Gosh.

sometimes they do, blood tests etc don't always show/tell the whole story. Sometimes animals are operated on for a look see. I imagine it's not done as often now as it has been in the past as technology has improved in leaps and bounds. Ah fair enough. I didn't know thought it was all blood tests etc.

Without going into it on this thread, as a bereaved parent there is not a chance in hell that I would have allowed my baby to be used for this. It is singular one of the most devastating things to happen to a person and we hold them so precious and dear. I am really irritated at the insensitivity of these comments, maybe I am over reacting but there you have it. In this day and age I am sure we can recreate a crash test dummy that would be able to simulate the impact etc a car crash would have on a doll. Can you note that this was not actually MY comment? i didn't bring up the crash test dummy thing thank you. ETA: And I am extremely sorry to hear that.

so how do you propose vet students learn if you aren't willing to let them learn on your pets? cadavers. And I am willing to let already EXPERIENCED vet students learn on my pets as long as there is an experienced vet assisting them. And for those vet students to become experienced... again... I say cadavers. I think you missed the bit when we said that we weren't happy to trust our dogs life on someone who was still learning not to be sqeamish around dogs and insides and euthanasia etc etc. we? I was quoting and responding to you and I don't recall you qualifying your statement that way - until now. Yes we - if you actually look at the rest of the same post, you will actually see that Poodlefan was the one who stated she wouldn't be happy to trust her dogs life in a squeamish students hands: I QUOTE: .And as SOME people know on this forum - I have a terrible way of 'qualifying' myself on statements. I'll say stuff that doesn't get through to a lot of people correctly, but in my head it makes sense. that's why I reply and clarify what I was meaning to say.

so how do you propose vet students learn if you aren't willing to let them learn on your pets? cadavers. And I am willing to let already EXPERIENCED vet students learn on my pets as long as there is an experienced vet assisting them. And for those vet students to become experienced... again... I say cadavers. I think you missed the bit when we said that we weren't happy to trust our dogs life on someone who was still learning not to be sqeamish around dogs and insides and euthanasia etc etc. Not sure how you'd learn to diagnose various diseases that depend on the dog not being dead. And ETA, a bit hypocritical that you're okay with a dog being killed so a vet student can learn as long as it's not done by a student. It's okay, for example, for the dog to be killed at a pound and then transported to a vet hospital? the bold: that doesn't make sense to me? And Absolutely NOT! Did you not read my first post? I am against euthanasia altogether. I DO NOT think it is an ok to euthanise an animal unless it is dying or in a lot of pain. this was my post: And I don't know how you'd learn to diganose various diseases - don't they do that through blood tests, x-rays and other tests? They don't do surgeries to 'diagnose' diseases do they?

so how do you propose vet students learn if you aren't willing to let them learn on your pets? cadavers. And I am willing to let already EXPERIENCED vet students learn on my pets as long as there is an experienced vet assisting them. And for those vet students to become experienced... again... I say cadavers. I think you missed the bit when we said that we weren't happy to trust our dogs life on someone who was still learning not to be sqeamish around dogs and insides and euthanasia etc etc.

Cadvers don't bleed, don't breathe and don't die when you get it wrong. If you're happy to trust your dogs life to a vet that's learning to deal with that on your pet, then good for you. I'm not. Its all well and good to be squeamish but some deaths profit others. I'll give you a perfect human example. The reason so little information is available about the impact of severe car accidents on children is because researchers have never had sufficient access to children's cadavers for crash test research. Society can cope with adults being used to build the data that modern crash test dummies incorporate but the child dummies are scaled down adult ones. So we have no accurate way of gaining data to make cars safer for kids. And living children suffer as a result. I call that a crying shame. I know it is hard to learn on cadavers, and it is a constant debate in society I think between whether dogs should be treated with the respect etc as humans... but why, if humans can learn on cadaver humans, why can't they learn on cadaver dogs? And I am CERTAINLY not happy to trust my dogs life on someone who is learning to deal with that... I just don't agree with it. But I respect that others do agree with it. And that is interesting about the kids. I think thats a shame as well - but why can't people get a hold of children cadavers? Is it because the parents wont release the body for research? Yep, grieving parents are quite understandably very reluctant to allow a child's body to be used for such research. The bodies used initially were made available without parental consent. That's no longer possible. Learning on cadavars of any species is not optimal learning. Society does not and will not condone the use of humans for the kind of research that animals undergo, I'm all in favour of humane treatment of research animals but in my view what Melbourne Uni is doing is humane and does benefit other dogs. I understand that grieving parents wouldn't want to allow their child to be used as research. I don't know. I just can't bring myself to think it is right. But I do understand that there may be no other options... but I really, REALLY wish there were.

Cadvers don't bleed, don't breathe and don't die when you get it wrong. If you're happy to trust your dogs life to a vet that's learning to deal with that on your pet, then good for you. I'm not. Its all well and good to be squeamish but some deaths profit others. I'll give you a perfect human example. The reason so little information is available about the impact of severe car accidents on children is because researchers have never had sufficient access to children's cadavers for crash test research. Society can cope with adults being used to build the data that modern crash test dummies incorporate but the child dummies are scaled down adult ones. So we have no accurate way of gaining data to make cars safer for kids. And living children suffer as a result. I call that a crying shame. I know it is hard to learn on cadavers, and it is a constant debate in society I think between whether dogs should be treated with the respect etc as humans... but why, if humans can learn on cadaver humans, why can't they learn on cadaver dogs? And I am CERTAINLY not happy to trust my dogs life on someone who is learning to deal with that... I just don't agree with it. But I respect that others do agree with it. And that is interesting about the kids. I think thats a shame as well - but why can't people get a hold of children cadavers? Is it because the parents wont release the body for research?

As for students practising their skills at Vet surgeries .... would you want your dog to be the subject? Yes, they do watch, and learn ..but actual surgery, watching how the body reacts, just seeing how the inside of an alive, breathing body works- and what happens when you do X .. that learning is priceless, and I am pleased that the poor dogs/cats who otherwise would have just been needled are contributing to the health/wellbeing of all the loved/owned ones out there. The world is full of unpleasantness, folks - and some of the unpleasant things need to be done for good things to happen. There are MUCH WORSE things happening to dogs & cats & budgies all over the world.!!! I understand exactly where you are coming from. I really do. But I still don't agree with it. This whole thing just makes me cringe.

I'm sorry but I disagree with all of you. This is completely distressing for me and I am actually SHOCKED that some of you are actually ok with this practice. I understand that everyone has different opinion and I respect that, but my view is no euthanasia. I don't agree with it unless a dog is in serious pain and dying. That's that. I do agree, however, with you Sparky, because it IS the byb, puppy farms and irresponsible owners that make me furious. It infuriates me. if these f***ers weren't around then there WOULDN'T be any euthanasia and I would be a happy person. I know that people are going to be like 'well what are you going to do with the dogs that can't be rehomes etc etc etc' - the answer is I don't know what to do with them, but ffs, DON'T kill them. That's my opinion. In regards to students operating on LIVE animals and then killing them... This is DISGUSTING! Absolutely disgusting. Use cadavers. Thats what humans use... Do we operate on DYING PATIENTS and then ethuanise them? No... But TBH in wouldn't surprise me if euthanasia was legalised in Aus that we 'put people down' so surgeons can practice. Find. another. way. to. learn. Absolutely despicable.

right fair enough! Thanks!! :D

ditto. I keep coming on here hoping there's an update!

Not an emergency. They booked her in for the next day though. But, I can usually get dogs in for desexing with a days notice. No complications, although pyo is complicated enough. They didn't really explain much. They first gave him a quote of $1,700, offered him finance with GE money (plus 38% interest) and said they could do it for $1,500, then dropped it to $1,200. He's glad his dog will be ok and still put her in after the quote. Maybe a little "I told you so", but I mentioned "well, I told you to get her desexed. That would have been a lot cheaper and better for her". This is COMPLETELY OT but I would never go with GE Money for anything. I used to work in insurance and they are a rip off and aren't very reliable. They're interest rates say it all I would think. A little more ON topic... I'm confused as to why they would offer him finance? Can someone explain this to me? Do vet surgery's normally do that? I mean I understand that not everyone has that amount of money just lying around (I know I don't!! :D) but is that a common occurrence when people take their pets in for a surgery? I've just never heard of that before that's all.......

What a lovely thing to do for julzjc Kirty!!!

I wouldn't pay for another consult. You should just kindly but firmly explain what you're situation with the lady vet was and politely state you prefer not to have to pay for a second consult because the first one wasn't done properly. If you are nice, but firm, about your complaint I;m sure they will be more than happy to help you - plus if they are your normal vet, they should know you and your situation with Charlie right? I find that the better they know you the more they will actually listen to you when you complain! I don't know Charlie's situation (however I am curious - but that is for another time!) but if they were doing a routine 'check up' I would assume they would check the heart, eyes, ears (and if they are a young dog then possibly check their hips - for big dogs), and then they would get down to business. that is what I expect every time I go to the vet. Good luck with your trip back - Hopefully Charlie isn't too traumatised by his ordeal today!! Hugs to you both.

Sometimes I wish that we could put PEOPLE down, legally of course. I honestly believe that 99.9% of dogs' lives are worth more than some of the human beings' on this earth are. Seriously.

When Rossco (RIP) was a pup, he was a Cav x chinese crested powder puff and one of two of my first puppies.. he had a mismark on the back of his neck. It was this little white dot on an otherwise black back. As he got older and older it grew smaller and smaller however it stayed there and was still noticeable.

I love that. So often Jenna does that to me. Like 'what do you think you're doing you weirdo?' It makes me laugh because she's such a GIRL!!!!

Again, so sorry. TBH, you are handling this much better than I would be. I would be crying and carrying on, not being able to think straight. So I take my hat off to you for staying strong and thinking clearly and getting advice. I just wanted to say good luck at the vet this afternoon, please keep us all updated on Indie and his progress. And I wouldn't worry about someone reporting you to Council. You have proof that he is not well and you are trying to do everything you can to make him better. Big hugs to you and Indie.

Neither Max nor Jenna can sit still while cuddles... however they LOVE affection. max does the same as your Gwyn, Bracken... he will come and put his head in your lap, sometimes a paw and stare at you... after about 20seconds without getting attention he wanders off, comes back in five minutes and tries again. He LOVES licking people, he constantly gets in my face to try and lick me (yes, ok, sometimes I let him). When he used to sleep with me he would always sleep at the end of the bed - he is very much the protector. He doesn't like it when I come and crowd him with cuddles and kisses, he whines, groans, grunts and then licks me to death. Jenna does not lick. At all. Its very rare. She also hates being confined by hugs, she is worse than max with the whining, groaning, grunting etc... I think its adorable - the noises she makes... In saying all of this though, they are both extremely affectionate. They will always lie as close as possible to me (most of the time). If I go outside, they go outside, if I come inside, they come inside. If I stand up, they stand up. If I even so much as move, they are looking at me to see what I do. they love being around me and in my company (I quite often talk to them like they are human beings - have conversations with them) - I see this as affection. It is enough for me that they love being in my company.