gwenneth1

Geez, I never thought of that point of view.

There are far more experienced people on the forum than I am who have a great deal more knowledge of animal behaviour than I do, so I am positive you will get some great suggestions and better than my efforts below. I was in the same situation about fifteen years ago where our Burmese absolutely despised our new dog addition and he would literally stalk the new dog (whom I got to defer to the cat -not touch under any circumstances including no eyeballing at all). Our dog (a big lad) would remove himself when he saw the cat, but it still left the cat with issues. I ended up with a water bottle (dog on lead) and would verbally 'Jack-ahhhh' and give him a squirt every time he postured up.I don't know if it is just the Burmese breed, but he was one intelligent cat-more dog like in a lot of his behaviour (went on walks with us, actually peed in the toilet!) Probably wasn't an ideal training method and I'm positive there are far more ingenious ways to educate a cat, but it didn't take long and actually worked. They just pretended each other didn't exist -persona non grata to each other, which was actually a bit amusing to watch them in their 'feud'. Mind you, I didn't leave our dog in the house with the cat unsupervised at any time Ow, sorry you were accidently bitten. If it's any consolation I did that once many years ago trying to stop a dog attacking mine, I must have thought my hand was a shield of steel or something. Anyway, I didn't think in through in that brief instant and like you , tetanus jab in the arm (said no to the buttocks, even though it was the largest part of me!)

Not from what I've seen. The GSD is a far more popular dog in terms of numbers whelped but I'd only recommend the same careful vetting be applied to either dog in terms of finding sound dogs of good temperament. There are nervy GSDs too. Breeder selection is crucial (but you can argue that for any breed I suppose) Yes, I agree, I think breeder selection is crucial for any breed for sure. I was wondering (and hope I'm not opening a can of worms..) because it appears there are less breeders of Belgians is there less choice for selection . Eg, as yet are the some breeders who have not yet established or had access to the more desirable types of Belgians and therefore statiscally less 'well bred' Belgians getting around than the "average" GSD's? (Oh hell, I know what I'm trying to say, but can't word it properly ) I'm only making less than well educated assumptions here, I should add. There just seems to be a common theme from Belgian owners (Briefly talked to two in person who both said the same thing) to go to the right breeder. Maybe I've grabbed the wrong end of the stick in my interpretation...

Nekhbet, you know as well as I do that the Malinois lines vary somewhat and you get a male out of Zico or Kasper with an inexperienced owner for example you are in Dutch Shepherd country, far too much dog for the average dog owner and the Malinois needs to be met with caution somewhat as to where they come from and the lines that produce them. There are many nervy showline Mals with over sharpness that are worse than a weaker GSD in defence reactivity. Across the board, a working line GSD is far more handler compliant with a wider window for error correction than a Mal and quite frankly, if someone hasn't owned a working line GSD or Rottweiler with competent handling skills, a Mal would be last breed I would recommend unless the pup and lines are chosen with experience and diligence to match the owners experience level. So the way I've interpreted the post is (and again, bear with my ignorance... with all things Belgian) that regardless of whether it is show or working some show lines still could be over sharp (and somewhat nervy and I assume (?) that some working lines could also be prone to being nervy? I'm guessing (and again everybody feel free to comment because I am trying to learn...slow witted as I am ) from what is written, the Belgian needs more careful selection than the average GSD would? It would boil down to the potential Belgian owner being realistic and honest about themselves and (for me the tricky part) would be finding an experienced knowledgeable breeder who would do their best to match suitable candidates.

Mine spent some time at obedience being a 'post' for figure eights. He'd had enough of whatever we were doing, so would drop and stay. Luckily, the instructor and class were obliging (not to mention laughing hysterically) . He loved agility best. Oh, that makes me laugh. He probably thought "I've got this down pat, just because she's too stupid to learn it doesn't mean I have to keep going--and I'm DONE!" Smarter than your average cookie methinks.

What a nice generous gesture. Those horses on the news made me cry, the poor sods. I'm not indifferent to all the human suffering in the floods, but I couldn't help but think of all the animals caught up in the carnage.

Do you mean repetition work say that is involved in obedience? Would they switch 'off' and become bored or do you have to motivate them in various ways? (that's it, no more questions in this paragraph ...)

Y That is exactly the type of GSD lines I spent time looking for. I actually like the lighter, straighter topline type in build which the working lines seem to have, some of the lines (from what I learned) have that sharper edge to them (coming from policia background), so it was a matter of getting the type with a nice drive without being too sharp (as I don't have an interest in protection/schutzhund). This is what interested me in the Belgians was their nice atheletic, nimble looking build. I really am enjoying this post, because the Belgian owners are being very objective and forthright in their views. Amanda from Vanrusselhof seems to get a lot of recommendation on here and other sites to be the person to get further information.

This post has been very interesting to read. I was tossing up in the future to get a Belgian (I've read different articles stating that the four 'types' within this group are wired internally very different to each other ?? True or misinformation) or a GSD. (Had two GSD's before) Personally, I like a dog that is in tune with me (or cares how I feel), it's not ego based, but I've found (in my limited experiences) that they are seem to pick up on things (training and otherwise) so much easier. I've had an independent dog and we adored each other, but he wasn't 'intuitive' . Withe the Malinois (and I know this is a generic question) are they happy to chill out at your feet for an hour or always looking for a job to do? (Pardon my ignorance.... ) At this stage I am leaning towards the GSD I think because I have some familiarity,but also from what I've read the Belgian might be a bit wired for my situation. I will say time and time again I've read that there is great emphasis on finding a good breeder, more so for the Belgian than GSD. Mind you, for me I've spent literally months sourcing a breeder with the type of GSD I would like. There is some amazing footage of a a Belgian (?think it was a Malinois) that a friend showed doing obedience and this dog was SHARP. I was mightily impressed.

It's horrible looking at the empty bed. Six months on, I look at that spot every morning and miss her. The only upside to grief is that in order to experience it, you must have loved. Twenty years of love, that's somethin' special

Locking jaws is an urban myth perpetuated, I guess, to 'dehumanise' bull breeds, in particular the latest whipping boy for all things wrong in the dog world, the APBT. As is the myth that such dogs don't feel pain that is until hormones such as adrenlaine wears off, ridiculous argument unless bull breeds are completely devoid of receptors and nerve endings!!!

Very interesting post Bones.

I'm assuming your Vet has tried the medication such as Propalin?

Exactly what Cosmolo says. I have had all dogs sleep on the bed bar one (dominance issues with other dogs emerged). It didn't f*** her up, I just rejigged the sleeping arrangements and all was well with the world.

Websites are an easy first stop in gauging the type (presuming that somebody has already researched what breed of dog they want) of dog they want and supplies some good information about themselves and philosophies. It's good for first contact via email too, because if you email you can find out what is the best time to ring to have a yarn with the breeder. I don't care if somebody is in a breed club or not. Some clubs are a great and some get political. I have waited three years for a pup to become available which is a longish time, twelve months is certainly not unreasonable to me to wait. Bluntly speaking, the deciding factor of a breeder for me is (health aspects aside ...) whether the breeder is passionate about their chosen breed or whether they see their breed merely as a tool for glory (winning) or making money. I will point blank NOT BUY a pup from somebody who views their dogs as a means to an end, either pulling prizes or money and sorry there are some registered breeders who do this, it is not just BYB who do the latter. One "breeder" had over fifty dogs with "many litters to choose from" and said papers were available as well. Initially the website indicated this was a responsible breeder who cared. My take on it was, in it for money wouldn't go near them with a twenty foot pole!

If your dogs are vaccinated and 5 & 6 years old, this isn't a reason not to take the Kelpie to the vet. The Golden may have made a mess of the muscle under the skin and not all puncture wounds are easy to find. I would rather pony up for some prophylactic antibiotics, than go through the hassle and expense of cleaning up an abscess. As for the long term prospects, without skilled intervention from someone experienced in dealing with aggression, my guess is you'll have to run them separately. I plan to phone the vet when he opens this morning. Of course my adult dogs are fully vaccd, but if the dogs are seen by the vet it will be in my car, they are NOT going into the vet surgery. I have two 12 week old iggy puppies at home that have only had one vacc. If an adult dog comes into contact with the virus they can shed it for several weeks and show no clinical symptoms. I am not willing to risk it. Sorry but thats not something I am willing to compromise on unless its a life or death situation. I will ask the vet re antibiotics etc and will give them whatever he thinks they need. If you don't want to go to the Vet, call the Vet to your place. There may be a surcharge for travel, but they are usually more than happy to do home visits.

I made a pact with my 30 year old boy (horse) and my lovely girl (My dog), that the decision to end their lives would be purely based upon their needs. I would not let them linger one second for my sake, because I couldn't bear the pain of goodbye. When the time came, it was singularly the most difficult thing I've done to date. I so wanted to grasp at the straw offered sympathetically by the Vet. In the back of my mind I was thinking "yes, I could wait that three hours for that blood work..", but then I looked back into his eyes full of distress and let that unreasonable glimmer of hope go. He was going to die but it was up to me to say enough on his behalf.I kept my promise to him and totally thought of what was best for him. I don't regret that decision for a minute because he gave me so much in his lifetime, to release him from his pain was the least I could do. My dog had bone cancer, skull being the primary site . Assessed by the Vet, nil treatment and she wasn't in any pain. We bought her home and she was her old self for about two months, then she started sleeping a lot and I knew it was the beginning of the downhill slide (ex nurse) so . We knew it was time. I didn't feel guilty which may sound strange, because in my heart it was purely and utterly decisions made for them with love but it was sheer hell for us to say goodbye.

I've a rescue terrier who lifted his leg in the house eight times in an hour (tiles, thank god ). He was promptly desexed and kept on a long lead for several weeks with me in the house to break the cycle. I would take him out after waking up, eating, drinking, before bed, through the night and so on with lots of praise when he did his business outside. It's only on the rare occasion now he does anything and it is usually my fault because I've left it too long and missed the signals (like really obvious ones, pacing at the door..poor sod). He really is quite brilliant now, the method might not work for some, but it did for him. I had a dog when I was about 17 whom I adored, exercised, fed, trained.....but frustratingly I never had a connection with her like my Mother did with her. Very annoying because my Mother only saw her occasionally but there was this instant bond between them. Consequently I gave her up to my Mother ... I have to say, my ego was a little dented from the experience of being the second pick of the dog (and I suspect my Mother ) but they were a match made in heaven. Your Ollie would be better off with his match made in heaven and vice a verse.